snap general election?

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  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    bendertherobot wrote:
    A Corbyn win would be a bigger result than Trump or Brexit IMO. And in many ways a very different type.

    Corbyn's pulled bigger crowds on his jaunts than Trump's inauguration too.

    perhaps, but unlike Brexit, a JC win can be reversed at the next election, Brexit is forever :evil:

    he has certainly surprised me.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,264
    Pross wrote:
    I still haven't made up my mind, I might just put a cross against whoever is top of the list other than UKIP.
    Do what I usually do in local elections - vote for the mainstream candidate that lives closest to your house
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Anyone hear the former PM policy unit head on May on Newsnight?

    "I think she has a major weakness in which she's not very interested in business, and she's doesn't understand business terribly well, I suspect, and I think neither does her inner circle. I think going into Brexit this will be a major issue and she needs to get a awful lot more sophisticated about giving business confidence."
    _
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Anyone hear the former PM policy unit head on May on Newsnight?

    "I think she has a major weakness in which she's not very interested in business, and she's doesn't understand business terribly well, I suspect, and I think neither does her inner circle. I think going into Brexit this will be a major issue and she needs to get a awful lot more sophisticated about giving business confidence."

    yes CBI etc been surprisingly quiet on their endorsements but he1l, if your idea of risk is running through a wheat field.....
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Between 1977 and 1983 May worked at the Bank of England, and from 1985 to 1997 as a financial consultant and senior advisor in International Affairs at the Association for Payment Clearing Services.
    She might not be interested (proof of this), but does have a background.

    Tim Farron
    Before his election to Parliament, Farron worked in higher education at Lancaster University from 1992 to 2002 and St. Martin's College, Ambleside from 2002 to 2005.
    So just a theory man, who hadn't any direct business experience.

    Jeremy Corbyn
    Prior to entering politics Corbyn worked as a representative for various trade unions. His political career began when he was elected to Haringey Council in 1974; he later became Secretary of Hornsey Constituency Labour Party, and continued in both roles until he was elected as MP for Islington North.
    Has experience inhibiting business.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,897
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Anyone hear the former PM policy unit head on May on Newsnight?

    "I think she has a major weakness in which she's not very interested in business, and she's doesn't understand business terribly well, I suspect, and I think neither does her inner circle. I think going into Brexit this will be a major issue and she needs to get a awful lot more sophisticated about giving business confidence."
    Rick, given that Farron has no business experience and the LibDems don't have a snow balls chance in hell, who would you rather be PM - May or Corbyn?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,853
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Anyone hear the former PM policy unit head on May on Newsnight?

    "I think she has a major weakness in which she's not very interested in business, and she's doesn't understand business terribly well, I suspect, and I think neither does her inner circle. I think going into Brexit this will be a major issue and she needs to get a awful lot more sophisticated about giving business confidence."
    Rick, given that Farron has no business experience and the LibDems don't have a snow balls chance in hell, who would you rather be PM - May or Corbyn?
    Given where the critique is coming from the point is that it will be May, but she needs to pull her socks up.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,335
    Mmmhh... yeah to be a good leader you need business experience, this is what sets Trump apart from ignorants like Obama
    left the forum March 2023
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,897
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Mmmhh... yeah to be a good leader you need business experience, this is what sets Trump apart from ignorants like Obama
    Trump is not the best example but business experience is a big asset for the leader of a country. I guess if you are in business you would know this anyway.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,897
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Anyone hear the former PM policy unit head on May on Newsnight?

    "I think she has a major weakness in which she's not very interested in business, and she's doesn't understand business terribly well, I suspect, and I think neither does her inner circle. I think going into Brexit this will be a major issue and she needs to get a awful lot more sophisticated about giving business confidence."
    Rick, given that Farron has no business experience and the LibDems don't have a snow balls chance in hell, who would you rather be PM - May or Corbyn?
    Given where the critique is coming from the point is that it will be May, but she needs to pull her socks up.
    Same question to Rick please :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,335
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Mmmhh... yeah to be a good leader you need business experience, this is what sets Trump apart from ignorants like Obama
    Trump is not the best example but business experience is a big asset for the leader of a country. I guess if you are in business you would know this anyway.

    I completely disagree... then you get folks who think a country can turn a profit like that moron who was chancellor before Hammond.
    Countries operate at a loss... all of them... businesses cannot operate at a loss, none of them, this is the main difference
    left the forum March 2023
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Anyone hear the former PM policy unit head on May on Newsnight?

    "I think she has a major weakness in which she's not very interested in business, and she's doesn't understand business terribly well, I suspect, and I think neither does her inner circle. I think going into Brexit this will be a major issue and she needs to get a awful lot more sophisticated about giving business confidence."
    Rick, given that Farron has no business experience and the LibDems don't have a snow balls chance in hell, who would you rather be PM - May or Corbyn?

    Luckily, we don't live in a two party state, so I can vote for the Lib Dems.

    I also don't think that business experience necessarily counts for much. See Trump.

    May doesn't have business experience either. Working in the then very sleepy BoE on payments clearing is hardly a deep insight in the day-to-day hustle of business.

    I've always felt the Lib Dems got the balance right between fostering growth through liberalising the markets, but working hard to minimise negative market externalises. I feel the Tories are too hot on the employer and not enough on the employee, and I think Labour, certainly New Labour, were too enraptured by big business at the expense of SMEs. A lot of what they put in made sense if you were a big business with teams of internal enforcers (HR, compliance etc), but made little sense at an SME level.

    Ultimately, you can understand business from a governance perspective without having worked in it.
    _
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    bendertherobot wrote:
    A Corbyn win would be a bigger result than Trump or Brexit IMO. And in many ways a very different type.

    Corbyn's pulled bigger crowds on his jaunts than Trump's inauguration too.

    A Corbyn win would be a much bigger shock than Brexit. It would completely reverse the post-Thatcher consensus.

    I'm still surprised when people label the Brexit result as a shock and that the pollsters got it wrong. The polls in the run up to the referendum were suggesting a close result, many of them within the margin of error of the actual result.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,263
    What do you mean by "business experience"? Major worked for a bank, Thatcher was a research chemist for Lyons. Do they count?

    Or do you mean experience of running a business? Who is the last prime minister to do that before politics? Neville Chamberlain?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    I have heard similar criticisms that she does not understand economics which to me is a bigger problem
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,897
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Mmmhh... yeah to be a good leader you need business experience, this is what sets Trump apart from ignorants like Obama
    Trump is not the best example but business experience is a big asset for the leader of a country. I guess if you are in business you would know this anyway.

    I completely disagree... then you get folks who think a country can turn a profit like that moron who was chancellor before Hammond.
    Countries operate at a loss... all of them... businesses cannot operate at a loss, none of them, this is the main difference
    Think about it. I did not say run the country exactly like a business. I said business experience was an asset. That is clear looking at the approach of Labour who have no clue about business, being financially sensible etc. Money just grows on trees in their little world.

    Not all countries operate at a loss.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,897
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    who would you rather be PM - May or Corbyn?

    [Stuff that doesn't answer my question]
    You didn't answer my question.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    who would you rather be PM - May or Corbyn?

    [Stuff that doesn't answer my question]
    You didn't answer my question.

    It's because it's a pointless question.

    I don't want to vote for either, so I'm not.

    Which would you rather vote for? The Nazis in 1931 or the a resurrected Stalin?
    _
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    edited June 2017
    ^Hey!? Hardly a comparable!

    It's a legitimate question, who would you prefer?
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,263
    I'd rather have Corbyn. Because he will be "weaker" in the Brexit negotiations. Meaning he will have to listen to those who don't want to cut all ties with the EU.

    I disagree with pretty much everything he stands for, but everything else beyond Brexit is noise really this time. This election should have been about Brexit, and May has barely mentioned it other than constantly saying "I'll be better than the other guy. Give me a mandate to do anything we want."
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    FocusZing wrote:
    ^Hey!? Hardly a comparable!

    It's a legitimate question, who would you prefer?

    They're both Brexiters.

    Corbyn wouldn't be able to do much and might get a softer Brexit.

    May is a parochial little englander who can't foster relationships and will fall into a hard Brexit because of her inability to lead beyond her narrow little England remit. In reality she'd be as bad as Corbyn on the economy because he wouldn't be able to do much harm as his party wouldn't let him.

    They're both as bad as each other. It's a travesty that they are the likeliest two leaders.

    I'd probably side Corbyn but only on the premise he wouldn't be able to do much, and there are more people within his party who I would support than in the Tories.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Lowest growth in the EU. Of all constituents.


    DByCAz0XoAAj3vO.png
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,897
    FocusZing wrote:
    ^Hey!? Hardly a comparable!

    It's a legitimate question, who would you prefer?
    Yep, easy question. Give it a try Rick, its not a trick question like some political types try to pull :wink:

    May or Corbyn?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,853
    edited June 2017
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    FocusZing wrote:
    ^Hey!? Hardly a comparable!

    It's a legitimate question, who would you prefer?
    Yep, easy question. Give it a try Rick, its not a trick question like some political types try to pull :wink:

    May or Corbyn?
    As another LibDem voter, I think it would have to be Corbyn as well. Not because I have any faith in either of the leaders, but I think Keir Starmer is a better bet than David Davis.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    3^
    Rick, I know it's not good at the moment. Look, UKip pressured Cameron for the vote. We had it and good or bad it was Brexit, thats democracy at work. It's futile keep dwelling in the passed. What counts now is a good relationship with the EU and rest of the world. May will be the best hope at that and also more business oriented than Union Corbyn/Labour, spending an empty bank.

    If we had another EU vote, democracy would have failed. People would have lost even more trust in politics.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    What?

    A vote on the outcome of Brexit negotiations is a failure of democracy? How does that work?

    And what about May's behaviour makes you think anything other than a hard Brexit?
    _
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    How do you think that May, Davis and BoJo will foster a better relationship with the EU than Jezza and Keir Starmer?

    May's pronouncements on the internet and human rights are not likely to play well with more liberal European counterparts.

    Also how is another vote somehow failing democracy, a vote on the end deal seems entirely sensible, given we all voted based on a hypothetical view of what Brexit would be...I mean if TM can deliver such a brilliant deal presumably she'll persuade any Remoaners of her one true path...
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,263
    FocusZing wrote:
    3^
    Rick, I know it's not good at the moment. Look, UKip pressured Cameron for the vote. We had it and good or bad it was Brexit, thats democracy at work. It's futile keep dwelling in the passed. What counts now is a good relationship with the EU and rest of the world. May will be the best hope at that and also more business oriented than Union Corbyn/Labour, spending an empty bank.

    If we had another EU vote, democracy would have failed.

    So if public opinion in the polls changes dramatically, another vote is anti-democratic? But continuing down a path that a minority supports would be more democratic?

    At the moment, I don't think there's any reason for another vote, but there might be.

    If the vote had gone the other way by a few %, and that had been taken as justifying entering Schengen and starting the process to join the Euro - I think there would have been a reaction to that. The leave campaigners wouldn't just have kept quiet, and another vote would have been inevitable.
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    No! People had long enough to decide good or bad, you can't keep changing the boundaries till you get the answer you want.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    If anything, given how most of the electorate feel they were misled about what Brexit would mean, surely a vote on the outcome would be welcome by Brexiters?

    Surely the people having a say on what it looks like is important?

    Why are Brexiters so worried about that?
    _

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