snap general election?

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  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    But to hedge my bets. King Abdulaziz
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  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    bendertherobot wrote:
    But to hedge my bets. King Abdulaziz

    It's probably best that you provide a Wikipedia link to who you are suggesting as the person you have suggested died in 1953
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    Perhaps I should call him Salman? Apologies for my misinterpretation of naming conventions. So, that solution.
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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,861
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    I wonder who JC will invite to No. 10 for tea and biscuits to stop these extremists from continuing to attack innocent people?

    Maybe those supporting Corbyn can suggest some names as I cannot think of any?

    This is the reality that Corbyn and his supporters have to face. IS is an ideology and there is no who you can discuss with to get them to stop their attacks

    And yet Theresa May has quite rightly pointed out
    First, the attackers are bound together by Islamist extremism. It is an ideology that claims our values are incompatible with Islam. Defeating this is one of the great challenges of our time.

    It will not be defeated by the maintenance of a counter-terrorism operation. It will only be turned around by persuading people are values are better.

    They know our freedoms are better. They and their families grow up under and benefit from them. They hate the freedoms that our society gives compared to their warped ideology. They will never be persuaded.
    Plenty of people who actually know how and why people are radicalised - e.g. the Quilliam Foundation -do not agree with you. People aren't born as terrorists and if they can be persuaded to join that cause they can be persuaded to leave it. From my very limited reading, there are a lot of parallels between extremist recruitment and other kinds of 'grooming'. Obviously the best result is to prevent people from becoming involved in the first place, but people can be persuaded to move away from these kinds of beliefs just as people leave other extremist organisations and groups.
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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,861
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    What's your solution?

    Ah, the typical Corbynist response. Avoid answering the question.

    You answer my question first!

    I'm no Corbyn supporter but you are misrepresenting his position, by taking comments about the Syrian conflict and applying those to a domestic (albeit inspired by a group based in Syria) terrorism situation. If you mean who should he invite to No. 10 to sort out Syria, we could start with those who have already been talking in Geneva. That could have some effect on the supply of propaganda coming out of Raqqa.

    If you mean who should he talk to about IS inspired domestic terrorism, as I posted before there are already experts in the field who could brief him.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

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  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    bendertherobot wrote:
    Perhaps I should call him Salman? Apologies for my misinterpretation of naming conventions. So, that solution.

    I agree with you that Saudi Arabia needs something. I just cannot think of what it is though, that any western leader cannot and is not already doing as their leaders are not hostile to the west.


    My solution would be to name and shame the extremists. Those who are hostile to the UK, whether they be Muslim, left/right wing nutters, Irish or whatever, they should be named. We need to stop pussy-footing around this situation. There are over 3000 on a list, they will already be risk assessed and I would start with the those of highest risk.

    By starting to name and shame them, we up the pressure on those who are hostile to the UK and it puts us on the front foot against them. Their communities/friends/families always say they never knew this person was a risk. Let's make this real to them so their communities are aware. We need to stop hosting those who want to harm us in this country.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    What's your solution?

    Ah, the typical Corbynist response. Avoid answering the question.

    You answer my question first!

    I'm no Corbyn supporter but you are misrepresenting his position, by taking comments about the Syrian conflict and applying those to a domestic (albeit inspired by a group based in Syria) terrorism situation. If you mean who should he invite to No. 10 to sort out Syria, we could start with those who have already been talking in Geneva. That could have some effect on the supply of propaganda coming out of Raqqa.

    If you mean who should he talk to about IS inspired domestic terrorism, as I posted before there are already experts in the field who could brief him.

    I am not misrepresenting Corbyn's position. Presented with the scenario on national TV of authorising a drone strike against an IS leader, he refuses to answer the question. That's because he would not authorise it and as leader of this country you need to be prepared to take make these decisions.

    This is easy to answer for any normal person. If you are will to stand as potential leader of the UK you need to be able to assertively take these actions.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,861
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    What's your solution?

    Ah, the typical Corbynist response. Avoid answering the question.

    You answer my question first!

    I'm no Corbyn supporter but you are misrepresenting his position, by taking comments about the Syrian conflict and applying those to a domestic (albeit inspired by a group based in Syria) terrorism situation. If you mean who should he invite to No. 10 to sort out Syria, we could start with those who have already been talking in Geneva. That could have some effect on the supply of propaganda coming out of Raqqa.

    If you mean who should he talk to about IS inspired domestic terrorism, as I posted before there are already experts in the field who could brief him.

    I am not misrepresenting Corbyn's position. Presented with the scenario on national TV of authorising a drone strike against an IS leader, he refuses to answer the question. That's because he would not authorise it and as leader of this country you need to be prepared to take make these decisions.

    This is easy to answer for any normal person. If you are will to stand as potential leader of the UK you need to be able to assertively take these actions.
    And there you go again conflating Syria and last night. All IS need to to instigate things like last night is a few guys publishing propaganda on their laptops (May is right about the importance of the internet, but it is unclear what she or anyone else can do about it). A drone strike might have some effect on the local conflict in Syria, but it'll make precious little difference either way to our risk.

    I notice as I and others have answered your question, you are now pretending you asked a different question.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    I wonder who JC will invite to No. 10 for tea and biscuits to stop these extremists from continuing to attack innocent people?

    Maybe those supporting Corbyn can suggest some names as I cannot think of any?

    This is the reality that Corbyn and his supporters have to face. IS is an ideology and there is no who you can discuss with to get them to stop their attacks

    Stay classy coopster.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,861
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    Perhaps I should call him Salman? Apologies for my misinterpretation of naming conventions. So, that solution.

    I agree with you that Saudi Arabia needs something. I just cannot think of what it is though, that any western leader cannot and is not already doing as their leaders are not hostile to the west.


    My solution would be to name and shame the extremists. Those who are hostile to the UK, whether they be Muslim, left/right wing nutters, Irish or whatever, they should be named. We need to stop pussy-footing around this situation. There are over 3000 on a list, they will already be risk assessed and I would start with the those of highest risk.

    By starting to name and shame them, we up the pressure on those who are hostile to the UK and it puts us on the front foot against them. Their communities/friends/families always say they never knew this person was a risk. Let's make this real to them so their communities are aware. We need to stop hosting those who want to harm us in this country.
    It's an idea, although with a significant risk of backfiring. I'm sure you remember when a newspaper decided to name and shame paedophiles - that didn't really help anyone.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    What's your solution?

    Ah, the typical Corbynist response. Avoid answering the question.

    You answer my question first!

    I'm no Corbyn supporter but you are misrepresenting his position, by taking comments about the Syrian conflict and applying those to a domestic (albeit inspired by a group based in Syria) terrorism situation. If you mean who should he invite to No. 10 to sort out Syria, we could start with those who have already been talking in Geneva. That could have some effect on the supply of propaganda coming out of Raqqa.

    If you mean who should he talk to about IS inspired domestic terrorism, as I posted before there are already experts in the field who could brief him.

    I am not misrepresenting Corbyn's position. Presented with the scenario on national TV of authorising a drone strike against an IS leader, he refuses to answer the question. That's because he would not authorise it and as leader of this country you need to be prepared to take make these decisions.

    This is easy to answer for any normal person. If you are will to stand as potential leader of the UK you need to be able to assertively take these actions.
    And there you go again conflating Syria and last night. All IS need to to instigate things like last night is a few guys publishing propaganda on their laptops (May is right about the importance of the internet, but it is unclear what she or anyone else can do about it). A drone strike might have some effect on the local conflict in Syria, but it'll make precious little difference either way to our risk.

    I notice as I and others have answered your question, you are now pretending you asked a different question.

    IS needs to be choked off at its roots. Those roots are not in this country so that dirty job needs to be done in Iraq, Syria, etc however whatever is occurring in this country also needs to be choked off, hence my solution. I think how we are approaching this internationally is a good way hence not focussing on this part and this current approach is way better than any JC lead solution.
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    This is easy to answer for any normal person. If you are will to stand as potential leader of the UK you need to be able to assertively take these actions.


    Clearly you are no student of history - to retaliate by bombing is exactly what I.S want - it martyrs their fighters and helps to recruit more to their cause.
  • letap73
    letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    What's your solution?

    Ah, the typical Corbynist response. Avoid answering the question.

    You answer my question first!

    I'm no Corbyn supporter but you are misrepresenting his position, by taking comments about the Syrian conflict and applying those to a domestic (albeit inspired by a group based in Syria) terrorism situation. If you mean who should he invite to No. 10 to sort out Syria, we could start with those who have already been talking in Geneva. That could have some effect on the supply of propaganda coming out of Raqqa.

    If you mean who should he talk to about IS inspired domestic terrorism, as I posted before there are already experts in the field who could brief him.

    I am not misrepresenting Corbyn's position. Presented with the scenario on national TV of authorising a drone strike against an IS leader, he refuses to answer the question. That's because he would not authorise it and as leader of this country you need to be prepared to take make these decisions.

    This is easy to answer for any normal person. If you are will to stand as potential leader of the UK you need to be able to assertively take these actions.
    And there you go again conflating Syria and last night. All IS need to to instigate things like last night is a few guys publishing propaganda on their laptops (May is right about the importance of the internet, but it is unclear what she or anyone else can do about it). A drone strike might have some effect on the local conflict in Syria, but it'll make precious little difference either way to our risk.

    I notice as I and others have answered your question, you are now pretending you asked a different question.

    IS needs to be choked off at its roots. Those roots are not in this country so that dirty job needs to be done in Iraq, Syria, etc however whatever is occurring in this country also needs to be choked off, hence my solution. I think how we are approaching this internationally is a good way hence not focussing on this part and this current approach is way better than any JC lead solution.


    Again showing a great deal of naivety and ignorance - so you want to repeat the mistakes of Iraq and the current mistakes being made in Syria?
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    rjsterry wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    Perhaps I should call him Salman? Apologies for my misinterpretation of naming conventions. So, that solution.

    I agree with you that Saudi Arabia needs something. I just cannot think of what it is though, that any western leader cannot and is not already doing as their leaders are not hostile to the west.


    My solution would be to name and shame the extremists. Those who are hostile to the UK, whether they be Muslim, left/right wing nutters, Irish or whatever, they should be named. We need to stop pussy-footing around this situation. There are over 3000 on a list, they will already be risk assessed and I would start with the those of highest risk.

    By starting to name and shame them, we up the pressure on those who are hostile to the UK and it puts us on the front foot against them. Their communities/friends/families always say they never knew this person was a risk. Let's make this real to them so their communities are aware. We need to stop hosting those who want to harm us in this country.
    It's an idea, although with a significant risk of backfiring. I'm sure you remember when a newspaper decided to name and shame paedophiles - that didn't really help anyone.

    Do paedophiles get the same level of monitoring as these extremists?

    Any approach is risky. If person X is known within the community is named to be high risk, does that make it easier or harder for them to go about their daily lives? It will also flush out those communities who say one thing and do something else.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    letap73 wrote:
    This is easy to answer for any normal person. If you are will to stand as potential leader of the UK you need to be able to assertively take these actions.


    Clearly you are no student of history - to retaliate by bombing is exactly what I.S want - it martyrs their fighters and helps to recruit more to their cause.

    What do you propose? Continue to let them spread their idiotic ideology and grow stronger?

    Someone has to take the action. They need choking off by continued removal of their leaders. One bomb will not resolve this but continued action against this scum will always be needed.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    bendertherobot wrote:


    Will be interesting to see the video.

    https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/stat ... 8985349120
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    Perhaps I should call him Salman? Apologies for my misinterpretation of naming conventions. So, that solution.

    I agree with you that Saudi Arabia needs something. I just cannot think of what it is though, that any western leader cannot and is not already doing as their leaders are not hostile to the west.


    My solution would be to name and shame the extremists. Those who are hostile to the UK, whether they be Muslim, left/right wing nutters, Irish or whatever, they should be named. We need to stop pussy-footing around this situation. There are over 3000 on a list, they will already be risk assessed and I would start with the those of highest risk.

    By starting to name and shame them, we up the pressure on those who are hostile to the UK and it puts us on the front foot against them. Their communities/friends/families always say they never knew this person was a risk. Let's make this real to them so their communities are aware. We need to stop hosting those who want to harm us in this country.

    So after long and hard thought you have decided that the solution is to "shame" pull be suicide bombers into not being suicide bombers. It also alerts the 3,000 that they are on the list and lets others know that they are not on the list. :D:):(:o :shock: :? 8) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :wink: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :|:mrgreen:
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,467
    One thing the British have in their favour in combating terrorism from within is a back catalogue of mistakes made in Ireland to learn from.
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    letap73 wrote:
    This is easy to answer for any normal person. If you are will to stand as potential leader of the UK you need to be able to assertively take these actions.


    Clearly you are no student of history - to retaliate by bombing is exactly what I.S want - it martyrs their fighters and helps to recruit more to their cause.

    What do you propose? Continue to let them spread their idiotic ideology and grow stronger?

    Someone has to take the action. They need choking off by continued removal of their leaders. One bomb will not resolve this but continued action against this scum will always be needed.

    you are so wrong bud, the amount of bombing & retribution dished by the Soviets against the Mujaheddin, was far in excess of anything the West can do in Syria and do you really think that home grown terrorists who you certainly cant bomb, will be deterred or inspired by this bombing?

    Would you launch a drone strike on some IS leaders if they were holed up in a school of say 100 syrian women and children?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    TailWindHome wrote:
    One thing the British have in their favour in combating terrorism from within is a back catalogue of mistakes made in Ireland to learn from.

    If only the press did the same...
    _
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8aRD9DNDsI

    https://www.facebook.com/10000500041771 ... 267407413/

    There could, quite clearly, be more to the background but these are pretty poor ways of dealing with things.
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    So Cameron's main strategy man and Brexiter has put the last 3 attacks at May's door and suggested she ought to resign over it.

    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status ... 9310379008

    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status ... 6383229953
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,264
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    What's your solution?

    Ah, the typical Corbynist response. Avoid answering the question.

    You answer my question first!

    You didn't ask any questions, you put question marks on the end of two statements.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    So Cameron's main strategy man and Brexiter has put the last 3 attacks at May's door and suggested she ought to resign over it.

    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status ... 9310379008

    https://twitter.com/SteveHiltonx/status ... 6383229953

    So it looks like Labour are using this to deadcat the terrorism issue around Corbyn.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Latest YouGov projection has Tories losing seats...21 short of a majority.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Meanwhile,the UK now has the lowest growth, lowest wage growth & highest inflation in the G7.
    _
  • graeme_s-2
    graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    A good Nate Silver article on UK election polling
    Nate Silver wrote:
    To sum things up, I’d give the same advice that I pretty much always do on the eve of an election. Focus on the polling average — Conservatives ahead by 7 points — rather than only the polls you like. But assume there’s a wide range of outcomes and that the errors are equally likely to come in either direction. Given the poor historical accuracy of U.K. polls, in fact, the true margin of error on the Labour-Conservative margin is plus or minus 10 points. That would imply that anything from a 17-point Conservative win to a 3-point Labour win is possible. And even an average polling error would make the difference between May expanding her majority and losing it.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    ^^ well the challenge for the pollsters is they didn't really expect the election so a lot of the changes they were putting in place haven't occurred yet.

    So yes, polls are likely not super accurate. Gotta go off something though.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,264
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Latest YouGov projection has Tories losing seats...21 short of a majority.

    That poll on absolute figures (not weighted by likelihood to vote and not excluding don't know/will not vote) now has Labour on 32%, Conservatives on 31%
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Latest YouGov projection has Tories losing seats...21 short of a majority.

    That poll on absolute figures (not weighted by likelihood to vote and not excluding don't know/will not vote) now has Labour on 32%, Conservatives on 31%

    So on this, it seems as much as 100 seats, many of which are swing seats, have not been polled AT ALL.

    So for all we know, this is seriously way out.

    I said earlier - labour MPs aren't feeling the swing on the doorstep very much, so perhaps that tallies.
    _

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