Milan San Remo 2017 - Spoilers
Comments
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Sagan's watts must have been insane - given he's a fair bit heavier than Kwiatowski. Could be measured in horsepower
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Utterly insane! 45 kph up hill! Personally I'd love to have this kind of data during the broadcast. Would need less talky and more mindful commentators though.PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230
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bobmcstuff wrote:M.R.M. wrote:The point isn't that he shouldn't have gone for the break. The point is, once he is in the final selection (which he brought about himself), he needs to play his cards better. See Cancellara's 2014 Ronde Van Vlaanderen win for example.
I don't think he had many other cards to play, neither of the others were going to do lots of work for him so if he'd started playing silly buggers they would have been caught.
Exactly - the others know that if they do turns with Sagan their chance of winning is pretty low - Sagan knows that he can do 80% of the work and still have a decent chance. No doubt if he'd got away with Cavendish and Viviani he wouldn't be towing them to the line.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Agreed, but wasn't that Cancellara win was more down to GVA messing things up?0
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andyp wrote:
Crazy numbers.0 -
The numbers will be impressive but i dont think the ones on the video clip or his strava are accurate - if you look at the Cipressa segment https://www.strava.com/segments/626918?filter=overall then there are guys that went faster up it on significantly less watts, despite weighing more (Dowsett and van Emdem are probably about 8-10kg more)0
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Isn't it a bit weird to focus on Sky when Sagan's numbers will have been even more mental (in terms of raw watts, since he is heavier).Salsiccia1 wrote:
Alaphilippe's numbers would also be pretty high, although climbing at 40kph I guess there's a pretty big aero benefit to being on the wheel...0 -
https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/sta ... 3809608704
Kwiatkowski climbed Poggio at 443 W for 5:47. For some reason according to Poggio segment on Strava: 536 W. That's not correct. #MSR
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7O5RUdXkAApdkY.jpg:large0 -
Any timings on how fast they descended?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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Salsiccia1 wrote:
By the way I wasn't using the word 'crazy' as in this is literally not believable. I was using it to mean 'goodness these pros are very good aren't they'.0 -
Thing is 443w doesn't sound that high. I mean, if it was me it would be unbelievable, but 443w over nearly six minutes for a top pro doesn't sound that amazing.
I guess it must have been relatively steady till it all kicked off - there's a big spike where presumably the attack went.0 -
M.R.M. wrote:Utterly insane! 45 kph up hill! Personally I'd love to have this kind of data during the broadcast. Would need less talky and more mindful commentators though.
I disagree. The numbers are meaningless to me. I don't see what use they serve. Power numbers are personal as they will be higher for a heavier rider so without knowing watts per kg you can't do anything with the info. Heart rate zones are personal as well, so unless we know the rider's functional max hr we don't know how sustainable an effort is.
When watched without speed, power and HR data I think it was abundantly clear that Sagan, Kwiato and Ala were trying really hard as they were riding away from the rest of the peloton. All the numbers are just a distraction.
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
/\ doesn't stop it being interesting though. More as a curiosity than adding anything to the actual racing, but I still find it interesting.0
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ContrelaMontre wrote:M.R.M. wrote:Utterly insane! 45 kph up hill! Personally I'd love to have this kind of data during the broadcast. Would need less talky and more mindful commentators though.
I disagree. The numbers are meaningless to me. I don't see what use they serve. Power numbers are personal as they will be higher for a heavier rider so without knowing watts per kg you can't do anything with the info. Heart rate zones are personal as well, so unless we know the rider's functional max hr we don't know how sustainable an effort is.
When watched without speed, power and HR data I think it was abundantly clear that Sagan, Kwiato and Ala were trying really hard as they were riding away from the rest of the peloton. All the numbers are just a distraction.
You talk as if the numbers vary so much between people. They dont really. Even at the Quintana to Stannard scale. The numbers would be easily interpreted by us.
We know the heavyweights or namely Wiggins at his peak have FTP's around 450 and Quintana's will be around 380 (6.5 W/KG) and thats at the two extremes. Hardly light years apart.0 -
Maybe it's just me, but I find the whole numbers thing boring. The only numbers that matter here are the ordinal ones.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0
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Salsiccia1 wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I find the whole numbers thing boring.
you aint the only one...0 -
AK_jnr wrote:ContrelaMontre wrote:M.R.M. wrote:Utterly insane! 45 kph up hill! Personally I'd love to have this kind of data during the broadcast. Would need less talky and more mindful commentators though.
I disagree. The numbers are meaningless to me. I don't see what use they serve. Power numbers are personal as they will be higher for a heavier rider so without knowing watts per kg you can't do anything with the info. Heart rate zones are personal as well, so unless we know the rider's functional max hr we don't know how sustainable an effort is.
When watched without speed, power and HR data I think it was abundantly clear that Sagan, Kwiato and Ala were trying really hard as they were riding away from the rest of the peloton. All the numbers are just a distraction.
You talk as if the numbers vary so much between people. They dont really. Even at the Quintana to Stannard scale. The numbers would be easily interpreted by us.
We know the heavyweights or namely Wiggins at his peak have FTP's around 450 and Quintana's will be around 380 (6.5 W/KG) and thats at the two extremes. Hardly light years apart.
Easily interpreted by who? I think they are a distraction. The denouement to Milan San Remo was hugely exciting, my wife, my dad and my young children all watched it and found it really exciting. I think the last few km was really accessible to a casual watcher. What would have power and HR data added to their enjoyment?
I assume that people who want to see the power and HR data are either keen cyclists themselves who ride with a power meter or anti-doping tin hat brigade. I am correct to assume that? Do all the people interested in power data ride with a power meter themselves?
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
In the digital age, it should be easy for a savvy broadcaster to give viewers the option of adding features like in race data to their coverage, thus satisfying the nerds, whilst not sullying it for anyone else.0
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dish_dash wrote:Salsiccia1 wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I find the whole numbers thing boring.
you aint the only one...
I find that the kms to go and time gaps useful. Wattage is something for light bulbs.0 -
Well as the teams all use crank/crankarm power meters (I think) then if everyone had watts displayed then electrical assistance would become a hell of a lot trickier. Any extra power being delivered to back or front wheel directly would be fairly obvious after not much analysis of video footage. But that's a pretty lame reason to have watts displayed all the time.
Like a lot of stats they can be interesting every so often. But no need for them all the time - and if they put off viewers then I would not be bothered if they were scrapped/never fully introduced.
I like the distance to go / gone, the time gaps, and I do like to see the speed of the riders on the downhills; because it never ceases to amaze me.
If they want to use tech - then a way that the moto can automatically tell who is in a frame and display it. Kirby has finally broken me and I watch the commentary-free feeds now - I find it hard to identify all the top WT tour members, let alone the domestiques, and no chance with the lower level teams. Side shots - great. Good rear shots when it isn't raining or cold - ok. Otherwise no chance0 -
I don't know how many of you will have read it, but there is a good piece on Kwiatkowski in Aprils Rouleur (17.2), that touches on him and Sagan (this interview was done in Mallorca, pre Strade Bianche). Most relevant snippet is about E3 in 2016 when he beat Sagan in a 2 up sprint.I don't know if Peter was focussed on me, because at one moment I let him go by two or three metres and started my sprint two or three seconds before him, and that was the end of his race. It was all about starting the sprint at the right moment.
Seemed he went for a similar tactic, but maybe Sagan remembered E3 and jumped to try and pre-empt Kwiatkowski. Kwiatkowski is a proper racer that's for sure. A couple of the other things in the piece basically talk about how he can struggle to not go too hard in training and racing, and that this was a reason for his form falling off last year. His stated goals for the season are the Ardennes- could have been a great poker bluff!0 -
andytee87 wrote:I don't know how many of you will have read it, but there is a good piece on Kwiatkowski in Aprils Rouleur (17.2), that touches on him and Sagan (this interview was done in Mallorca, pre Strade Bianche). Most relevant snippet is about E3 in 2016 when he beat Sagan in a 2 up sprint.
Do you know if the full-size Rouleurs are available other than by subscription ?
I very occasionally buy an issue but much prefer the proper A4-sized ones to handle, only occasionally do my local WH Smiths stock a copy and the compact-sized ones just don't appeal.0 -
andyrr wrote:andytee87 wrote:I don't know how many of you will have read it, but there is a good piece on Kwiatkowski in Aprils Rouleur (17.2), that touches on him and Sagan (this interview was done in Mallorca, pre Strade Bianche). Most relevant snippet is about E3 in 2016 when he beat Sagan in a 2 up sprint.
Do you know if the full-size Rouleurs are available other than by subscription ?
I very occasionally buy an issue but much prefer the proper A4-sized ones to handle, only occasionally do my local WH Smiths stock a copy and the compact-sized ones just don't appeal.
I'm not sure, it was just chance I bought one before getting on a plane- the compact one was actually a good thing.0 -
andytee87 wrote:andyrr wrote:andytee87 wrote:I don't know how many of you will have read it, but there is a good piece on Kwiatkowski in Aprils Rouleur (17.2), that touches on him and Sagan (this interview was done in Mallorca, pre Strade Bianche). Most relevant snippet is about E3 in 2016 when he beat Sagan in a 2 up sprint.
Do you know if the full-size Rouleurs are available other than by subscription ?
I very occasionally buy an issue but much prefer the proper A4-sized ones to handle, only occasionally do my local WH Smiths stock a copy and the compact-sized ones just don't appeal.
I'm not sure, it was just chance I bought one before getting on a plane- the compact one was actually a good thing.
Yeah, I can see it being handy sometimes as the full-sized one is pretty hefty but I'd prefer the bigger one and a WHS near me used to stock both for a short time.0 -
andyp wrote:
I don't have a power meter when I ride. There's one on the spin bike in the gym I've been using over the winter and I'm not sure how accurate it is but I'm struggling to hold something like 250W over 5mins. Those numbers are bananas!
I know Kwia is a pro athlete and I'm just in it for the banter and an excuse to drink more beer, but still!!0 -
hanshotfirst wrote:andyp wrote:
I don't have a power meter when I ride. There's one on the spin bike in the gym I've been using over the winter and I'm not sure how accurate it is but I'm struggling to hold something like 250W over 5mins. Those numbers are bananas!
I know Kwia is a pro athlete and I'm just in it for the banter and an excuse to drink more beer, but still!!
don't worry, I'm sure he'd be pretty rubbish at your job too0 -
Crozza wrote:
don't worry, I'm sure he'd be pretty rubbish at your job too
Haha, thanks Crozza, that produced a genuine LOL0 -
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/03/numbers ... -san-remo/
This was really interesting- or it was to me. Took Kwia 9w/kg for the jump onto Sagan's wheel (short duration). And certain bits of it were really similar to Gerrans' win.
Kwiatowski was putting out about 1.6 horsepower in the sprint
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