Wiggins the legend!
Comments
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Wiggins has 2 global TT titles (1 world, 1 Olympics), 1 TDF, 2 x Dauphine & 1 Paris-Nice.
Cancellara has 6 Global TTs. Plus 7 Monuments, multiple other Classics, the record for Yellow jersey days without winning etc...
Again, who is better? Impossible to compare really.
No-one at any point said Wiggins wasn't a great athlete. They were just stating comparisons within or without the sport are pretty meaningless.0 -
Yes but if we exclude that, and the World TT and the Tour and the two Dauphines and Romandie and Paris-Nice and the Tours of California and Britain, what has he actually won?KingstonGraham wrote:r0bh wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:Clearly he's a great athlete, but in terms of Cycling he also only has 1 world road TT title. Cancellera and Martin have 4 each. Nibali has won all 3 GTs and a Monument.
Could have sworn he won some big race round France too.
And an Olympic TT.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Yes but if we exclude that, and the World TT and the Tour and the two Dauphines and Romandie and Paris-Nice and the Tours of California and Britain, what has he actually won?KingstonGraham wrote:r0bh wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:Clearly he's a great athlete, but in terms of Cycling he also only has 1 world road TT title. Cancellera and Martin have 4 each. Nibali has won all 3 GTs and a Monument.
Could have sworn he won some big race round France too.
And an Olympic TT.
should definitely exclude the hour record too.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Yes but if we exclude that, and the World TT and the Tour and the two Dauphines and Romandie and Paris-Nice and the Tours of California and Britain, what has he actually won?KingstonGraham wrote:r0bh wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:Clearly he's a great athlete, but in terms of Cycling he also only has 1 world road TT title. Cancellera and Martin have 4 each. Nibali has won all 3 GTs and a Monument.
Could have sworn he won some big race round France too.
And an Olympic TT.
Come on Rich, I wrote a badly worded reply to the previous post from davebradswmb that stated 'world champion several times on the track and time trial as well as winning classics'
and also stated 'I don't get the comments about Wiggins not being a great athlete' which I don't think anyone had said.
Clearly, Wiggins was a bit handy ;-) If anything he should have done a lot more on the road but stuck with the track to '08, such is sport.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Yes but if we exclude that, and the World TT and the Tour and the two Dauphines and Romandie and Paris-Nice and the Tours of California and Britain, what has he actually won?KingstonGraham wrote:r0bh wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:Clearly he's a great athlete, but in terms of Cycling he also only has 1 world road TT title. Cancellera and Martin have 4 each. Nibali has won all 3 GTs and a Monument.
Could have sworn he won some big race round France too.
And an Olympic TT.
'What have the Romans ever done for us?' etc0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Yes but if we exclude that, and the World TT and the Tour and the two Dauphines and Romandie and Paris-Nice and the Tours of California and Britain, what has he actually won?KingstonGraham wrote:r0bh wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:Clearly he's a great athlete, but in terms of Cycling he also only has 1 world road TT title. Cancellera and Martin have 4 each. Nibali has won all 3 GTs and a Monument.
Could have sworn he won some big race round France too.
And an Olympic TT.
'What have the Romans ever done for us?' etc
Priceless
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Surely it's the way he's performed at the very highest level on both road and track in such different disciplines that makes him special - obviously his road palmares is a bit limited in some regards compared to others and he may have slightly fewer track golds than a very few other athletes, but who else has done both?0
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bobmcstuff wrote:Surely it's the way he's performed at the very highest level on both road and track in such different disciplines that makes him special - obviously his road palmares is a bit limited in some regards compared to others and he may have slightly fewer track golds than a very few other athletes, but who else has done both?
Agreed. Defo never won any classics tho ;-)
It could also be argued that most other riders had to do a lot more on the road than the track, due to zero or little funding for being a track rider compared to road in most countries. Would have been great to see Contador having a go at a 4K pursuit - he'd have been out the saddle round the bends.... ;-)
Track and Road could be seen as almost different sports in a way - bit like Rugby Union and League. A few guys crossing over between the two, but a lot of near specialists in both. Wiggins is Jason Robinson (he'd probably appreciate that comparison).0 -
Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?0
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dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Ha, that's a whole other subject! If Valverde had worried less about GTs he'd have potentially been the best singal day rider of his era.0 -
{Warning: Controversial opinion ahead!}inseine wrote:dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Ha, that's a whole other subject! If Valverde had worried less about GTs he'd have potentially been the best singal day rider of his era.
If doping didn't exist I think Valverde would have been the greatest rider of his era, full stop.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Interesting - working on the assumption Valv isn't doping now (you'd like to think he's regularly in the sites of all testers, esp. in France), the question is how much is he still benefiting from his past doping?
Agree on his 1 day record - in 2015 his big race record was 3rd Strade Bianchi, 20th MSR (same time / group as Deg), 2 Amstel, 1 FW, 1 LBL, 1 Spanish champs, 3 San Sebastian, 5th WCs, 4th Lombardia.
MSR, an MSR warmup sprint race (GP Nobili) and the first of the Majorca races (he came 2nd and 1st on the subsequent days) were his only results outside the top 6 in 1-dayers.
thanks to Pro-cycling stats for all that.
EDIT - he can even TT when he wants.0 -
If you had a team with Sagan & Valverde in it you'd have an option in pretty much every race going except the Tour & Giro GC arguably.0
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RichN95 wrote:
{Warning: Controversial opinion ahead!}inseine wrote:dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Ha, that's a whole other subject! If Valverde had worried less about GTs he'd have potentially been the best singal day rider of his era.
If doping didn't exist I think Valverde would have been the greatest rider of his era, full stop.
Agreed. I even quite like the old begger.0 -
He also really really likes riding his bike - allegedly did 48,000KM in the year he was banned. And he trains with a parachute.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Yeah.
Not being able to sustain the road consistency has to count against you, especially against probably the most consistent rider of his generation.
To be fair on Wiggins, has he really tried to sustain road consistency?
Valverde's road record clearly much more rounded than Wiggins' though, agreed. Although to the layman having a Tour win counts for more than anything Valverde's done - it's only people like us who give more than half a cr@p about the other GTs and one day races, and more than the slightest cr@p about getting lots of GT top 10s or top 5s.0 -
YorkshireRaw wrote:He also really really likes riding his bike - allegedly did 48,000KM in the year he was banned. And he trains with a parachute.
Lets not forget the 1000 sit-ups per day he claimed to have done during his ban that accounted for him roaring out of the traps straight out of his ban0 -
I've probably asserted this here before, but having his 'gap yah' has likely helped sustain Valverde's career.
One full year of training, without any of the stress of travel, racing, injuries, crashes etc., will have given him a monstrous aerobic base on which to build his comeback. Plus he no doubt had the security of knowing he'd be straight back into the Caisse / Movistar set-up when his ban ended, and he got to stay home with his wife & kids all year.
Contrast to Millar's time out - on the smash in Monaco and worrying about his tax bill.0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:He also really really likes riding his bike - allegedly did 48,000KM in the year he was banned. And he trains with a parachute.
Lets not forget the 1000 sit-ups per day he claimed to have done during his ban that accounted for him roaring out of the traps straight out of his ban
Indeed. And he even had time to pop to the hair clinic (as long as that's the only clinic he was visiting...)0 -
We need a few years more of decent scientific research to establish once and for all how much doping carries on helping athletes after they've stopped
(and before anyone shouts, I'm aware as the next fan how race-wily Piti is - and that drugs cant give you that)0 -
YorkshireRaw wrote:Richmond Racer 2 wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:He also really really likes riding his bike - allegedly did 48,000KM in the year he was banned. And he trains with a parachute.
Lets not forget the 1000 sit-ups per day he claimed to have done during his ban that accounted for him roaring out of the traps straight out of his ban
Indeed. And he even had time to pop to the hair clinic (as long as that's the only clinic he was visiting...)
He will forever be Senor Hairplugs0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Yeah.
Not being able to sustain the road consistency has to count against you, especially against probably the most consistent rider of his generation.
To be fair on Wiggins, has he really tried to sustain road consistency?
Valverde's road record clearly much more rounded than Wiggins' though, agreed. Although to the layman having a Tour win counts for more than anything Valverde's done - it's only people like us who give more than half a cr@p about the other GTs and one day races, and more than the slightest cr@p about getting lots of GT top 10s or top 5s.
No arguments on that. But it's people like us who count ;-)0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Yeah.
Not being able to sustain the road consistency has to count against you, especially against probably the most consistent rider of his generation.
To be fair on Wiggins, has he really tried to sustain road consistency?
.
That's broadly irrelevant isn't it? If you don't try it's as good as failing.
You're using the loser mentality! LOSER MENTALITY.
LOSER
Sorry, don't know what came over me.0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:He also really really likes riding his bike - allegedly did 48,000KM in the year he was banned. And he trains with a parachute.
Lets not forget the 1000 sit-ups per day he claimed to have done during his ban that accounted for him roaring out of the traps straight out of his ban 0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:We need a few years more of decent scientific research to establish once and for all how much doping carries on helping athletes after they've stopped
(and before anyone shouts, I'm aware as the next fan how race-wily Piti is - and that drugs cant give you that)
Yep - it's the great unknown. Both how good would they have been naturally and how much are they still benefiting. Same with someone like Gatlin - technically a fantastic sprinter, v talented junior.... but arguably shouldn't be running those times still. (also is probably still at it, given the mess Athletics is in).0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Yeah.
Not being able to sustain the road consistency has to count against you, especially against probably the most consistent rider of his generation.
To be fair on Wiggins, has he really tried to sustain road consistency?
.
That's broadly irrelevant isn't it? If you don't try it's as good as failing.
You're using the loser mentality! LOSER MENTALITY.
LOSER
Sorry, don't know what came over me.
If it was Donny, I dont think any of us want to know0 -
Delete - RR2 got there before me.Rick Chasey wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:dish_dash wrote:Just catching up, are we agreeing that Valverde is a better road cyclist than Wiggins then?
Yeah.
Not being able to sustain the road consistency has to count against you, especially against probably the most consistent rider of his generation.
To be fair on Wiggins, has he really tried to sustain road consistency?
.
That's broadly irrelevant isn't it? If you don't try it's as good as failing.
You're using the loser mentality! LOSER MENTALITY.
LOSER
Sorry, don't know what came over me.0 -
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