E-Bikes, what do we think?

m_cozzy

The haters I expect haven't ridden them and are just repeating comments from pinkbike, they think they do 50mph everywhere leaving roost in their wake.
It matters not whether you are old, young fit, injured etc. They take the boring bits out of riding allowing more time for the fun.
They are the future. It won't be long till its just the peasants riding their unassisted bikes.

Angus Young

m_cozzy wrote:

The haters I expect haven't ridden them and are just repeating comments from pinkbike...

Wrong.

m_cozzy wrote:

They take the boring bits out of riding allowing more time for the fun.

They make all of it boring.

m_cozzy wrote:

They are the future. It won't be long till its just the peasants riding their unassisted bikes.

Correct. Because, fundamentally, human beings are lazy bastards.

cooldad

The tiny aging rock star makes good points.

jeremy1

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Someone making an effort to ride up a hill shouldn't be expected to move across for a lazy b#stard on an e bike. Moving across for another rider who is genuinely faster is fine.
If you're pushing hard to get up a tough climb, the last thing you want is to pull over and then get going again so someone can cruise past on an e bike.
They aren't mountain bikes and have no place on mountain bike trails.
British Cycling have said that they won't ever allow them in BC events or races. They said they will leave that up to the FIA. If BC won't allow them, that excludes them from the vast majority of cycling events and even clubs as most are insured by BC.

I remember years ago our camera club chairman said "I will never allow digital cameras into the club or digital prints in competitions" Hahaha

jeremy1

m_cozzy wrote:

The haters I expect haven't ridden them and are just repeating comments from pinkbike, they think they do 50mph everywhere leaving roost in their wake.
It matters not whether you are old, young fit, injured etc. They take the boring bits out of riding allowing more time for the fun.
They are the future. It won't be long till its just the peasants riding their unassisted bikes.

A1 ++++

Angus Young

jeremy1 wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Someone making an effort to ride up a hill shouldn't be expected to move across for a lazy b#stard on an e bike. Moving across for another rider who is genuinely faster is fine.
If you're pushing hard to get up a tough climb, the last thing you want is to pull over and then get going again so someone can cruise past on an e bike.
They aren't mountain bikes and have no place on mountain bike trails.
British Cycling have said that they won't ever allow them in BC events or races. They said they will leave that up to the FIA. If BC won't allow them, that excludes them from the vast majority of cycling events and even clubs as most are insured by BC.

I remember years ago our camera club chairman said "I will never allow digital cameras into the club or digital prints in competitions" Hahaha

Your camera club chairman was clearly a dick.

cooldad

Slight difference between embracing technology and motorising a bicycle.

The latter was done many, many years ago and they called it a motorcycle.

GarethS

I went out with an e-bike rider from my local bike shop, fair play to the guy he has one false leg and needs the e-bike to get up the hills. It did kinda bug me though when he starts pulling wellies up the steep climbs when I was puffing hard in the low gears. Also, when I dropped off the back of a group trying to catch my other mates he reaches down and adjusts his speed control and in an instant he has shot off and caught them. For me the e-bike is purely for riders who need them or can't get to a level of fitness to allow them to ride the trails they want to ride.

kevinharley

I had an interesting conversation with a mate of mine whom I very much respect (and who would have been, I'd thought, a most unlikely e-bike advocate) the other day. He had rented one a couple of weeks back, just to see what they were like, and ended up really enjoying it. But then he said he was seriously contemplating getting one. This wouldn't be to replace his non-assisted MTB, but in addition. His reasoning? He has a long-ish commute, around 25km each way. He tries to ride this as often as he can, sometimes both ways each day, but after a 10+hour day, is just too exhausted sometimes to cycle back home again. Plus he has small children, so wants to get back home at a reasonable time. So the cycle commute has become, sometimes, just a drag and a chore, not something to be enjoyed or savoured. He usually commute by road or well-surfaced canal towpath. There are various off-road options along his commute however, so he figures that an e-bike might be just the thing to allow him to commute by bike more often, without being so tired, as well as putting some more fun back into the commute by allowing him to take in some trails without exhausting himself further or adding to his commuting time.

I find it difficult to argue with the sense of that. Its not something I would do (or would need to consider) myself currently. And it wouldn't replace 'proper' MTB-ing for him, ie local night rides, trail centre visits, big days out in the mountains etc. N+1, and his circumstances, have made me re-think my (quite rigid view) that the only place for e-bikes is for the elderly and the physically impaired.

Angus Young

kevinharley wrote:

I had an interesting conversation with a mate of mine whom I very much respect (and who would have been, I'd thought, a most unlikely e-bike advocate) the other day. He had rented one a couple of weeks back, just to see what they were like, and ended up really enjoying it. But then he said he was seriously contemplating getting one. This wouldn't be to replace his non-assisted MTB, but in addition. His reasoning? He has a long-ish commute, around 25km each way. He tries to ride this as often as he can, sometimes both ways each day, but after a 10+hour day, is just too exhausted sometimes to cycle back home again. Plus he has small children, so wants to get back home at a reasonable time. So the cycle commute has become, sometimes, just a drag and a chore, not something to be enjoyed or savoured. He usually commute by road or well-surfaced canal towpath. There are various off-road options along his commute however, so he figures that an e-bike might be just the thing to allow him to commute by bike more often, without being so tired, as well as putting some more fun back into the commute by allowing him to take in some trails without exhausting himself further or adding to his commuting time.

I find it difficult to argue with the sense of that. Its not something I would do (or would need to consider) myself currently. And it wouldn't replace 'proper' MTB-ing for him, ie local night rides, trail centre visits, big days out in the mountains etc. N+1, and his circumstances, have made me re-think my (quite rigid view) that the only place for e-bikes is for the elderly and the physically impaired.

This, again, simply reiterates that there are exceptional circumstance where an e-bike makes sense, but does nothing to advance the case that they might be an alternative form, or even superior form, of mountain biking in the regular sense of the term.

tandemduck

I wish people would start the comments with "In my opinion "

cooldad

I wish people would start opinions with "In my opinion".

ps see you again in a decade or two.

Angus Young

I heard today that a third of all bikes sold in the U.K. are now e-bikes and that Raleigh sell more e-bikes than real bikes now. And I think they said that Holland buys more e-bikes than real bikes (I wasn't listening at that point so I might be wrong about that last one). Get used to it, guys, the revolution is coming. At some point in the future a mountain bike will be something that you just sit on that rides itself down the trail with no chance of crashing, all the rider has to do is hang on. Riding a mountain bike will be just like sitting passively on a rollercoaster.

Ross Gardner

Angus Young wrote:

I heard today that a third of all bikes sold in the U.K. are now e-bikes and that Raleigh sell more e-bikes than real bikes now. And I think they said that Holland buys more e-bikes than real bikes (I wasn't listening at that point so I might be wrong about that last one). Get used to it, guys, the revolution is coming. At some point in the future a mountain bike will be something that you just sit on that rides itself down the trail with no chance of crashing, all the rider has to do is hang on. Riding a mountain bike will be just like sitting passively on a rollercoaster.

Sources?

Angus Young

Ross Gardner wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

I heard today that a third of all bikes sold in the U.K. are now e-bikes and that Raleigh sell more e-bikes than real bikes now. And I think they said that Holland buys more e-bikes than real bikes (I wasn't listening at that point so I might be wrong about that last one). Get used to it, guys, the revolution is coming. At some point in the future a mountain bike will be something that you just sit on that rides itself down the trail with no chance of crashing, all the rider has to do is hang on. Riding a mountain bike will be just like sitting passively on a rollercoaster.

Sources?

I think it was on the BBC. It was just something that was on in the background while I was working. (Not the bit about bikes riding themselves, of course).

newredbike

Brilliant Idea,
I'm 70 this year, and am very lucky to be able to pedal a bike, no trouble without any electrical help. Hills in the Derbyshire Dales can be a little tough, but then, that's what gears were invented for!
I know one thing though, if there comes a time, hopefully a long way off when I can't pedal any more, my next bike will be an electric one, cheating or not!

Angus Young

newredbike wrote:

Brilliant Idea,
I'm 70 this year, and am very lucky to be able to pedal a bike, no trouble without any electrical help. Hills in the Derbyshire Dales can be a little tough, but then, that's what gears were invented for!
I know one thing though, if there comes a time, hopefully a long way off when I can't pedal any more, my next bike will be an electric one, cheating or not!

Hat's off to you for still riding at 70. Hope I'm still up to the task at your age.

muddytreker

I would say E bikes as they are now are more suited to urban commuting.
The weight, restricted power, run time and cost aren't worth that much extra.
Should they be aimed as an alternative to the motorbike or car, and be developed
more for this purpose.

The unfit argument is a bit off, surely your goal here is to get fit to get up to those
hills, in the mean time take it steady and build up your fitness and skills
with short manageable excursions.

For the physical impaired they can be a perfect aid.
They have there place no doubt, but with a limited environment to share human/Animal
powered and motor assisted contraptions, there has to be a a fair balance.

What happens when an able bodied individual wants to do a running marathon using
power assisted bionic legs ?

fat daddy

muddytreker wrote:

What happens when an able bodied individual wants to do a running marathon using
power assisted bionic legs ?

what if they do ? .... I think it would be awesome to run 30 miles along the coast line in south Africa at a speed of 15-20mph

The Rookie

Which is not a marathon.....

ademort

I live in the Netherlands and must say the Ebike has exploded onto the market like you would never believe. Especially at weekends i see almost as many people on E bikes as on racing bikes. It seems that many older people sometimes couples sometimes in larger groups go out on the bike for the day. Pick a cafe , have a meal and a few drinks and there goes the weekend. Must say it is an ideal way for the older generation to get about. Personally you won,t see me on an Ebike unless i,m unable to physically ride my racing bike.

rockmonkeysc

Yeah but you need that motor after having a smoke and a pancake.

poah

don't see what the issue is with e-bikes.

Angus Young

POAH wrote:

don't see what the issue is with e-bikes.

You will when they don't make real bikes anymore.

poah

Angus Young wrote:

POAH wrote:

don't see what the issue is with e-bikes.

You will when they don't make real bikes anymore.

if that unlikely event ever happened I'd be so old I'd need an e-bike.

paul.skibum

Ahhh ebikes. The debate is endless and circular.

I rode a hardtail cube ebike last autumn as part of a staff party in whistler. We did a quick lap of lost lake and there is a certain fun to having the power assist to whip up the hills and climb tech stuff without trying. No replacement for skill in real tech as my colleagues demonstrated but a fun excursion.

I felt that you needed to disengage the motor on downs, even minor ones, as any shift in the pedal position to corner could lead to sudden acceleration at inopportune moments. on anything technical this led to issues.

In Whistler there is a massive debate about them - all the rental fleets are adding them to try and encourage people to ride more trails in the valley and get more out of a day in the town - for experienced or inexperienced riders. the local trails association is fighting against them as they could lead to heavier wear on some of our more delicate trails (our high alpine loop being a specific case in point - its a mission to ride up there and although a relatively easy descent, we dont want to have every man and his dog who can ride an ebike getting to the trail and increasing wear on it). Additionally, there are a number of trails that had the squirrel catcher of a monster climb to prevent over use and/or inexperienced riders getting out of their depth. With an ebike that is almost removed leaving fatty mcsweatpants capable of dropping into Rockwork Orange , Hey Bud or similar on their ebike with potentially little idea what they are doing.

Not to say that this is not already a risk in the bike park with any one being able to buy a pass, rent a DH bike and head for Schleyer with their lid on backwards.

Ebikes open up potentially huge routes, big expanses of terrain, exploration for the mountain biking world as well as accessibility to the older and less able but with great power comes great responsibility - in BC we are fighting for greater access to national parks and potentially fragile terrain to ride in - an article last year showed a guy riding the chilcotins on a DH ebike with the words - cruise up and rip down or something similar - potentially damaging the cause of access rights to this kind of terrain.

I am not anti them but I am anti eMTB's.

The Rookie

Sums it up for me......getting over the hill is part of the fun/challenge.

Ebikes have their place but without considerate usage (in the 21st century.......there isn't enough consideration of anything) its not off road other than on known 'ebike safe' trails.

shimanobottombracket

fat daddy wrote:

Why do people care what others do or have ?

Seriously, if some one has an e-bike how on earth do you let that ruin your ride ... so they might overtake you on a climb, big deal, someone better might overtake you as well.

Live and let live

I agree but

"Live and make others go do one" is the modern attitude.

larkim

If you enjoy the climb, enjoy the climb without additional power sources.

If you hate the climbs, enjoy the climb with an additional power source to help you up.

Simple really.

Some people like making their own clothes. Most people like buying them ready made from shops.

Some people like cooking all meals from scratch. Many people like the convience of pre-prepared foods.

They are here now. Can't put them back in the bottle. And people are buying them. THey could turn out to be the "3D TV" of the bike world and disappear without trace in a few years. But I doubt it.

Angus Young

This is what BPW thinks. Fat blokes are not happy...

http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/trail_news/bi ... _source=ET