E-Bikes, what do we think?

rockmonkeysc

I haven't even got boost and my only Troy Lee jersey is five years old and has a tear in it.
I have got a carbon Fox downhill helmet though. It's three years old and smells a bit like mushroom soup.

Ross Gardner

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I haven't even got boost and my only Troy Lee jersey is five years old and has a tear in it.

I have to tell, I do like my jerseys. I have two Troy Lees, so I guess I'm a chump.

Hinaultscrapcousin

To continue the proper discussion, I've seen motocross bikes on the trail centre trails at Glentress.

Anonymous

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

To continue the proper discussion, I've seen motocross bikes on the trail centre trails at Glentress.

Now that is out of order and action should be taken against the riders

Could be dealt with by the police by issuing Section 59 anti social behaviour orders

cooldad

Panda cars are rubbish at trail centres.

Anonymous

cooldad wrote:

Panda cars are rubbish at trail centres.

Our local cop has a ford ranger wildtrak

Hinaultscrapcousin

DALESMAN999 wrote:

Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:

To continue the proper discussion, I've seen motocross bikes on the trail centre trails at Glentress.

Now that is out of order and action should be taken against the riders

Could be dealt with by the police by issuing Section 59 anti social behaviour orders

I'm not sure how it would fall under an anti-social behaviour order? And catching them would probably be next to impossible I would think.

Anonymous

Personal experience :- three incidents

Video on phone of vehicles and riders ( reg numbers on the bikes on this occasion )

Sent details to police , two witness statements obtained and sec 59's subsequently issued to rider and bike .

If no reg plates - video them in action and send to police

And lastly - police caught them in the act

The Rookie

Here mr police officer sir I have a video to a random mountain bike with a random rider, I think the bike may be illegally modified so expect you to take action.

Against whom exactly sir?

Do don't need an S59, riding without insurance is enough for immediate seizure.

Anonymous

The Rookie wrote:

Here mr police officer sir I have a video to a random mountain bike with a random rider, I think the bike may be illegally modified so expect you to take action.

Against whom exactly sir?

Do don't need an S59, riding without insurance is enough for immediate seizure.

Read my post - 3 scenarios to consider your options

The Rookie

Which answers my point about that ridiculous scenario how?

FishFish

I think that the police will get involved but not on the trails. I was in China recently, stocking up on fake stuff in Shenzhen and working slightly. The fake market is in a huge square and the place is full of ebikes zipping around the place and they are really lethal. Of course these are road ebikes but the point is that these will arrive in the uk and be used in the parks annoying retired colonels, dog walkers and VIP such as Daniella Westerbrook. That is where the police involvement will start and that will be codified in to park regs, bye laws and eventually statute. People are going to get hurt and so insurance will be mandated and then there will be all sorts of issues with modified / uninsured bikes with the regulators removed.

By definition they will be allowed off road on byways and bridleways - because they are allowed there. Private land like the Forestry Commission can ban them as can the trail centres but it would be difficult to ban them. In saying that I'm in the Thetford Forest at least once a day and I've never seen one nor a sign banning them.

The point I make is that rules and laws will come in to being abd by and large people will pay attention to them and obey them because that is the nature of people here.

The Rookie

You miss the point, if they aren't legal e-bikes (speed and power limit) they are electric motorbikes, so in most public places need tax (VED even if zero rated), insurance and a licensed rider to be legal, there is the easy way to take them on.

fat daddy

The Rookie wrote:

You miss the point, if they aren't legal e-bikes (speed and power limit) they are electric motorbikes, so in most public places need tax (VED even if zero rated), insurance and a licensed rider to be legal, there is the easy way to take them on.

Whats the likely hood and chance of one ever being stopped though

Unless the bike cruises past a patrol car at 30 mph uphill whilst the rider is not pedalling, the Police are not going to put the time in to stopping bikes and trying to figure out if its electric and if the delimiter has been removed ?

LimitedGarry

The Rookie wrote:

You miss the point, if they aren't legal e-bikes (speed and power limit) they are electric motorbikes, so in most public places need tax (VED even if zero rated), insurance and a licensed rider to be legal, there is the easy way to take them on.

Not electronic motorbikes, but mopeds, at least as far as power and construction goes. Smaller than even scooters. Ridiculous stuff such as the Stealth Bomber will never get stopped and checked by police for registration or whatever. The owner doesn't need to pay tax in most places and AFAIK doesn't even need to register it. The major thing here is that it's electric and generally is constructed as a bike.

We can argue all we want, the truth is that it's one of the grey areas which aren't really properly classified and described by our current laws. And until somebody actually comes up with appropriate laws, the law enforcement will simply see these as electronic bikes, because it doesn't run the risk of a lawsuit.

Wheelie central

There not bikes although there fun to ride on they should never be allowed to compete against a normal bike.

combatsapph

Wheelie central wrote:

There not bikes although there fun to ride on they should never be allowed to compete against a normal bike.

Compete? Not every ride is a race you know

I've been riding a "not strictly legal" ebike everywhere for the last three years and I've never had a problem, either on the road, cycle paths, bridleways or trail centres. I don't ride like a loon.

Generally, if it looks like a bike, sounds like a bike and you ride it like a bike, you aren't going to have an issue riding a "strictly not legal" ebike anywhere.

cooldad

But we will still hate you.

Plodder82

I accept (and expect )there are BETTER, faster riders than me going down hill or on technical trails,but on light trails I don't want rear ending by some f%*kin thick c**t chav doing 30mph on a motorbike or worse an almost silent lecky bike.

LimitedGarry

Plodder82 wrote:

I accept (and expect )there are BETTER, faster riders than me going down hill or on technical trails,but on light trails I don't want rear ending by some f%*kin thick c**t chav doing 30mph on a motorbike or worse an almost silent lecky bike.

In other words, they hurt your ego so they should not be allowed.
It's funny how people always find something to mad about. It's like they couldn't just mind their own business and have their own fun. Why worry about how other people ride?

rockmonkeysc

I think the best solution would be trails for e bikes and separate trails for mountain bikes.
It's going to lead to problems when mountain bikers keep getting asked to move across for e bike riders to pass them on climbs and e bike riders are going to get annoyed with getting held up. On descents there won't be much difference although e bike riders could potentially want bigger jumps with longer run ins.
It's definitely two different sports and trying to combine them in to one just won't work. You wouldn't expects trails to be built to suit CX bikes and endure bikes would you?

Bojangle

I was on the fence at first but would love to try one, only thing that puts me off is the price and the fact they will be like iphones, as soon as you buy the latest model it will be out of date within 6 months.

The argument about giving way (or not) to ebikes on climbs is rubbish, unless you have eyes in the back of your head you don't know what bike it is behind you. I was in Cwm carn a couple weeks back and heard some bikes come up behind me on a singletrack climb, i'm not the fastest climber so shouted back to ask if they wanted to pass, they said 'no it's fine you carry on' it was only when they passed me on a wider section that i realised they were ebikes, no problem.

I might be talking rubbish here (should have looked on google first) but i think that ebikes are legally restricted to about 16mph, on a flat i average 16mph on my 'normal' 26" bike and somewhere like Afan can get up to 40mph on the downs, would this be easily acheived with a heavy ebike on 29" rims??? One of my concerns would be if they started getting more speed out of them what happens when someone is killed by one (rider or pedestrian)???

Another thing what happens when a group of riders are out and the 'lesser fit' one has an ebike so he/she can keep up with the others and that bike goes wrong/flat battery?? Do they other riders then slow down to compensate for the now slow rider with a very heavy mtb??

rockmonkeysc

They are restricted but very easy to de-restrict and make them illegally fast. With no chance of the de-restricted ones being caught I think it will happen a lot.
I recently had my car re-mapped and top speed limiter (155mph) removed. The technician who did the work said he has personally re-mapped more cars than have been declared to insurers (mine has). I guess de-limiting e-bikes will be the same situation.

necromunger

if you look on ebay for ebike kits there is not one that would be road legal as on near all of them you can remove the 15mph limit and change the wheel size.

with a bosch bike like mine i have to use a dongle for it and costs 120 quid for the one i have. also if you buy a bike from 99% of all dealers they will void the warranty if one is used, but they can tell for sure anyway not even bosch can. and no proof has even been posted buy a dealer or bosch.

then there is ebike shop that fits dongles and sell the bikes with warranty with there dongle fitted and costs 150 quid and is inside the motor case.

now all bosch motors are 350w speed limited to 250w tho under the speed limit can still pull max power from the battery so climbing a steep hill you will be pulling over 800w 19a ish tho some will be lost via heat ect.

this is a Yamaha motor with the speed limit removed so you can see how much power it does use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VGdUXRfwZk

necromunger

as you can see on that i am 34th so even with a dongle i am not even in the same universe time wise to a full on road bike.

tho that might change with this im after avg speed and am just spinning out with the 18t i have atm.

spankwilder

They're fun to ride and that's what it's generally all about. 15mph limit on road I think is a bit limited, but off road is great. People hanging on rear wheels is more about the IQ of the rider behind, unless the lead rider has unwittingly managed to access a race event.

Angus Young

spankwilder wrote:

They're fun to ride and that's what it's generally all about.

Mmm... They are for a couple of rides and then they become deeply unsatisfying. It's also an absolute bore riding with someone who's on and e-bike if you're on a regular bike. On regular bikes you struggle to the top of a climb, brothers in arms, both about to have a heart attack and you share that moment of triumph. The winner ribs the loser but you're all winners, even the guy who comes last. All of that achievement is gone when you ride with someone on an e-bike.

rockmonkeysc

Angus Young wrote:

spankwilder wrote:

They're fun to ride and that's what it's generally all about.

Mmm... They are for a couple of rides and then they become deeply unsatisfying. It's also an absolute bore riding with someone who's on and e-bike if you're on a regular bike. On regular bikes you struggle to the top of a climb, brothers in arms, both about to have a heart attack and you share that moment of triumph. The winner ribs the loser but you're all winners, even the guy who comes last. All of that achievement is gone when you ride with someone on an e-bike.

I never agree with you but on this occasion, I agree. Riding with mates is all about that shared experience and if you're having very different experiences then it's just not going to be as good. Might as well ride alone.
Fortunately, none of my mates have the slightest interest in electric bikes. The new bike park opening soon a few miles away is banning them as well.

shindig

Until last year I was on the "e-bike is cheating" thought. However, I'm just out of hospital after having my third lung resection to remove tumours.

Over the last 18 moths I've lost 80% of my left lung and 15% of my right. I cycle most days and on downhills I'm pretty much the same as I used to be. However, uphills are a real struggle. So much so that I usually end up walking long climbs.

I have several normal bikes including and full sus, CX and fat bike. I love cycling and as I say cycle most days. I also go bush-biking, that is bush crafting on my bike. I now struggle with a fully loaded bike (tent, camping equipment etc) and now only go on local wild camps

I haven't been on a long group ride as I am way too slow on the climbs. I'm now contemplating a Specialised turbo levo. This will allow me to get back to enjoying long rides again and go on group rides.

I really don't understand the hate for e-bikes and feel that this has spilled over from many American forums. If an bike allows people to get out on the trails then I'm all for it. I honestly don't see the "lazy yob" spending £4k on an e-bike. I definetly wouldn't if I didn't need one.

However, I'm still on the fence about buying one, and If I do iI'l be keeping all of my other bikes.

The Rookie

Personally I have no issues with those who NEED an e-bike to continue to enjoy the sport we love, what I dislike is those who use it just because the WANT to, that attitude also seems very much linked to those who ride them like bell ends (the 'get out of my way I'm on an ebike' type).

Ride an ebike responsibly, ride it as if you are on a regular bike to enjoy the sport for all and you're welcome to join me, we already have one chap on our regular ride on an ebike to offset his heart condition. Ride it like a twunt and you'd be 'less welcome'.