E-Bikes, what do we think?

Ross Gardner

LimitedGarry wrote:

E-bikes are not faster than the fastest of riders, except in climbs. They really don't need their own trails.

Fair enough.

LimitedGarry wrote:

The controversy of e-bikes on man built/maintained trails is when someone comes with a jailbreak for these bikes and allows them to surpass their programmed speed limit. At that point, the e-bike is essentially a moped (at least as far as speed and power goes) and has absolutely no place on the trails.

Wouldn't it be easy to ban anyone that did so? They would be few and far between.

rockmonkeysc

I think it will become very common to derestrict them. You try finding a five year old 50cc motorcycle which still has its 30mph limiter. They all get derestricted.
Just out of curiosity I just googled how to take the top speed limiter off my car and got an answer within seconds!

Ross Gardner

What about limiting them properly (so they can't be derestricted, if possible)?

What about those running the trail centres having a simple way to check if it is unrestricted (like a rolling road)?

That would be too costly?

Can't the E-bike be made foolproof?

rockmonkeysc

There will always be a way to derestrict it unless some very complex (expensive) control systems are used.

The Rookie

With different rules on e-bikes around the world they design a system to take advantage of the most relaxed and then limit them for the more stringent, inevitably that limiter can be removed or disabled.

Removing the limiter from my daughters 50cc scooter (stage 1) took 5 minutes with a junior hacksaw (as carried out by the previous owner) it took me about 30 minutes to relimit it.

Angus Young

The Rookie wrote:

it took me about 30 minutes to relimit it.

Spoil sport!

rockmonkeysc

I tried removing the top speed limiter on my car but gave up due to the awful Volvo computer system (it's not in a Volvo) and 155mph is plenty fast enough. If e bikes are fitted with a hopelessly unfriendly Volvo control system then that should stop people derestricting them.

LimitedGarry

Ross Gardner wrote:

LimitedGarry wrote:

Wouldn't it be easy to ban anyone that did so? They would be few and far between.

Trail builders usually build the trails at a minimal or no profit. They certainly don't have the resources to go around checking everyone's bike whether it doesn't have an added feature that allows disabling the speed limiter.

Someone who modified their e-bike will be a danger to others, and will also be more likely to damage the trails. And then you'll have smartypants on mopeds arguing that it's just a downhill e-bike and acting all insulted when they're told to get out of the park.

Bottom line, it's much easier to just ban absolutely all e-bikes. In US, that is the case for majority of man-built trails. The owners don't want e-bikes in their parks.

The Rookie

Angus Young wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

it took me about 30 minutes to relimit it.

Spoil sport!

Her scooter had two parts to the limiter, a gear ratio limiter and a rev limiter, it would do about 48mph with both but wasn't stable on the brakes, so I put the rev limiter back in (Max then about 40) and it could then stop safely.

Ross Gardner

If you put yourself in the position of riding an E-bike, then it's Ok. That's what's so frustrating: other people's behaviour. Maybe things that deter speeding road cars could have an effect on lewd behaviour. It's a lot more complicated than a normal road, though.

The only exception on normal trails, would be competitive races that involve checks and balances, rather than a blanket ban on every E-bike. That's why my idea of giving E-bike specific trails is a good idea. It's like giving Motorcross somewhere to race. People don't turn up to an MTB trail that has gating to ride a scrambler, do they?

Angus Young

Ross Gardner wrote:

People don't turn up to an MTB trail to ride a scrambler, do they?

My guess is, yes. That's why they put that narrow gating at the starts and ends of many trails.

Ross Gardner

Angus Young wrote:

My guess is, yes. That's why they put that narrow gating at the starts and ends of many trails.

That's really dumb.

Angus Young

Ross Gardner wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

My guess is, yes. That's why they put that narrow gating at the starts and ends of many trails.

That's really dumb.

Not really. A lot of MTB trails are probably brilliant on a motocross bike.

rockmonkeysc

That's exactly why they put in narrow gates.
At Afan there are loads of MX riders on the mountain who'd love to get on the trails and they did before the gates were there

Ross Gardner

Angus Young wrote:

My guess is, yes. That's why they put that narrow gating at the starts and ends of many trails.

Exactly. Why turn up if the gating is there. Really dumb.

jamski

9 miles in today I hauled my ass up a hill. Perching against a tree at the top to catch my breath before a nice little downhill, an ebike casually rolled up the hill, past me, then continued on. What got my goat, is the next bit is a cracking section, and this guy didn't even peddle. He just let his bike slowly roll him over the humps, he was literally sitting there, going pretty slow, letting his bike do all the work. He may as well have been on a mobility scooter!

Angus Young

Ross Gardner wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

My guess is, yes. That's why they put that narrow gating at the starts and ends of many trails.

Exactly. Why turn up if the gating is there. Really dumb.

Eh? Are you actually following your own posts?

Ross Gardner

Angus Young wrote:

Eh? Are you actually following your own posts?

Yes. I should have mentioned the gating myself: a faux pas by me. I should have gone on to insist that every trail should have gating. I've now corrected it.

Angus Young

Ross Gardner wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

Eh? Are you actually following your own posts?

Yes. I should have mentioned the gating myself: a faux pas by me. I should have gone on to insist that every trail should have gating.

Ah, O.K.

The Rookie

Ross Gardner wrote:

That's why my idea of giving E-bike specific trails is a good idea

Will they pay for it though, are there enough of them to pay for it? If the answers no then it's not a good idea as it won't work!

Anonymous

I enjoy my e bike and my regular bikes




https://flic.kr/p/QcCcKz

rockmonkeysc

The Rookie wrote:

Ross Gardner wrote:

That's why my idea of giving E-bike specific trails is a good idea

Will they pay for it though, are there enough of them to pay for it? If the answers no then it's not a good idea as it won't work!

E bike trails would need to be quite a lot longer to make sense which means they'll be more expensive to build.
It wouldn't make any sense at a commercial trail centre like bike park Wales where the profit comes from the uplift service.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

It wouldn't make any sense at a commercial trail centre like bike park Wales where the profit comes from the uplift service.

But think of all the extra profit they'd make from the fat blokes buying cakes in the cafe.

Ross Gardner

Angus Young wrote:

But think of all the extra profit they'd make from the fat blokes buying cakes in the cafe.

Where do I invest?

cooldad

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

It wouldn't make any sense at a commercial trail centre like bike park Wales where the profit comes from the uplift service.

But think of all the extra profit they'd make from the fat blokes buying cakes in the cafe.

Just open a cake shop in Surrey and haul in the roadies.

rockmonkeysc

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

It wouldn't make any sense at a commercial trail centre like bike park Wales where the profit comes from the uplift service.

But think of all the extra profit they'd make from the fat blokes buying cakes in the cafe.

Why bother with the trails? The fatties can just Park up their VW T6 in the car park, put on their Trev Lee (Troy's larger brother) kit and semi full face helmets, unload their shiny, fully charged Hitachi Lard-O-Trail Enduro-matic with the latest Dyson motor (coincidentally their wife's favourite toy uses the same motor). Ride across to the car park to the cafe to eat cake, drink coffee and chat b0ll0ks about who's got the rarest rare earth magnets in their motor and then ride back to their van and drive home with Nickelback blasting out the van's sound system.

Anonymous

պենիս

We bow to your superior presence !

Perhaps some of us enjoy riding these types of bikes ? I'm not a fatty... I'm 6' tall and 14 stone ... I ride an ebike and a carbon road bike

My wife is 5''2" and has a heart condition. She enjoys riding her ebike as it's the safest way for her to exercise...she isn't a fatty either

We support several local bike shops ...both for our ebike and regular bikes

I enjoy both types of bikes

I don't agree with your reasoning and it's unfair to describe ebike riders in the way
you have. But then again cycling seems to be an elitist following at times and if you haven't got "the latest designer / team / manufacturer kit" or only manage a few miles then they are put down and insulted. We are not all super fit elite cyclists

So respect others and if they are happy in what THEY are doing leave them alone and get on with YOUR life

The Rookie

I think you've missed the main point of the thread which is around e-bikes at trail centres, not where they can be ridden without damaging the trail such as road and bridleways and byeways.

rockmonkeysc

DALESMAN999 wrote:

if you haven't got "the latest designer / team / manufacturer kit" or only manage a few miles then they are put down and insulted

No, if you've got the latest team kit you just look a complete tool.
I don't think anyone has ever seen someone in team sky kit and thought "wow, he/she must have won a tour desk France or three"
Mountain bikers just don't tend to wear team replica kit. Any old tat will do.

The Rookie

I think he's mistaken this for the road section....

If it's latest kit I'm doomed, I'll have to trade in my 2006 frame, 2009/13 hybrid forks (straight steerer, how last year), 2006 cranks and 2010 brakes! And 26" wheels, I mean......