Poo tin... Put@in...
Comments
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I don't know how to feel about this sort of stuff...
Edit - talking about the second tweet!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Remarkable how few people look at it when considering Ambramovich.TheBigBean said:
Wikipedia is available.rick_chasey said:It is worth reminding everyone of who Abramovich is.
He came to his great riches via the Aluminium wars in the post-Soviet state-asset sell off. They are considered to be the most fiercely contested of the state asset sell offs, during which time various industry owners, CEOs, bankers and journalists were murdered in a series of gang-like assassinations, drive bys, torture etc. This is all publicly available knowledge.
Abramovich himself has been fairly open, even in a UK court, that he came to his riches via buying Russian state assets at ginormous discounts.
3 guys came out on top of the aluminium wars, Roman Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky, and Oleg Deripaska.
Oleg was the most successful of all of them and was briefly the richest man in Russia. He bought himself Cypriot citizenship in order to obtain an EU passport. He’s just been sanctioned. He founded Rusal which was a JV with his business and Abramovich’s.
Boris Berezovsky ran foul of Putin in 2000 after he ran against him in the Duma and started mouthing off about Putin, so he sought residency in the UK. He then made himself even more of a nuisance in 2012 when he sued Abramovich, ultimately unsuccessfully, about the ownership of a firm called Sibneft. A year later, he was found dead. The coroner at the inquest into Berezovsky's death later recorded an open verdict – i.e.e suspicious, but not unable to find a the real cause of death. Most people who have looked into this assume he was murdered on orders of Putin.
When Litvinenko was murdered, he was investigating Abramovich for money laundering (see here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/16/litvinenko-investigating-abramovich-money-laundering-claims-court-told) and there are suggestions (though remember who owns this particular newspaper), that Abramovich still launders money for Putin specifically: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/roman-abramovich-vladimir-putin-kgb-chelsea-fc-justice-b967989.html and that he bought a UK high profile football club (he had a choice between Chelsea and spurs) on Putin’s orders.
He should have never been allowed near the club.0 -
You only had to look at Banks and Farage's tweets around the point Russia invaded to see which side their bread is buttered. The stuff being fed to Russians at home is ten times worse than this.ddraver said:I don't know how to feel about this sort of stuff...
Edit - talking about the second tweet!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
.
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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rick_chasey said:
Remarkable how few people look at it when considering Ambramovich.TheBigBean said:
Wikipedia is available.rick_chasey said:It is worth reminding everyone of who Abramovich is.
He came to his great riches via the Aluminium wars in the post-Soviet state-asset sell off. They are considered to be the most fiercely contested of the state asset sell offs, during which time various industry owners, CEOs, bankers and journalists were murdered in a series of gang-like assassinations, drive bys, torture etc. This is all publicly available knowledge.
Abramovich himself has been fairly open, even in a UK court, that he came to his riches via buying Russian state assets at ginormous discounts.
3 guys came out on top of the aluminium wars, Roman Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky, and Oleg Deripaska.
Oleg was the most successful of all of them and was briefly the richest man in Russia. He bought himself Cypriot citizenship in order to obtain an EU passport. He’s just been sanctioned. He founded Rusal which was a JV with his business and Abramovich’s.
Boris Berezovsky ran foul of Putin in 2000 after he ran against him in the Duma and started mouthing off about Putin, so he sought residency in the UK. He then made himself even more of a nuisance in 2012 when he sued Abramovich, ultimately unsuccessfully, about the ownership of a firm called Sibneft. A year later, he was found dead. The coroner at the inquest into Berezovsky's death later recorded an open verdict – i.e.e suspicious, but not unable to find a the real cause of death. Most people who have looked into this assume he was murdered on orders of Putin.
When Litvinenko was murdered, he was investigating Abramovich for money laundering (see here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/16/litvinenko-investigating-abramovich-money-laundering-claims-court-told) and there are suggestions (though remember who owns this particular newspaper), that Abramovich still launders money for Putin specifically: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/roman-abramovich-vladimir-putin-kgb-chelsea-fc-justice-b967989.html and that he bought a UK high profile football club (he had a choice between Chelsea and spurs) on Putin’s orders.
He should have never been allowed near the club.In 1995, Abramovich and Berezovsky acquired a controlling interest in the large oil company Sibneft. The deal took place within the controversial loans-for-shares program and each partner paid US$100 million for half of the company, above the stake's stock market value of US$150 million at the time, and rapidly turned it up into billions. The fast-rising value of the company led many observers, in hindsight, to suggest that the real cost of the company should have been in the billions of dollars (it was worth US$2.7 billion at that time). [35][36] Abramovich later admitted in court that he paid billions of dollars of bribes to government officials and gangsters to acquire and protect his assets.[37]
As of 2000, Sibneft annually produced US$3 billion worth of oil.[38]
The Times claimed that he was assisted by Badri Patarkatsishvili in the acquisition of Sibneft.[39][40][41][42] After Sibneft, Abramovich's next target was the aluminium industry. After privatisation, the "aluminium wars" led to murders of smelting plant managers, metals traders and journalists as groups battled for control of the industry. Abramovich was initially hesitant to enter into the aluminium business, claiming that "every three days someone was murdered in that business".[43]0 -
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Different to your summary though. Note he already had $100m prior to Sibneft.rick_chasey said:Exactly. Why was he ever let near the club?
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$$$$$$$rick_chasey said:Exactly. Why was he ever let near the club?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
He didn't get to being a multi-billionaire without some dirt on him. It was dodgy at the time - I remember it.TheBigBean said:
Different to your summary though. Note he already had $100m prior to Sibneft.rick_chasey said:Exactly. Why was he ever let near the club?
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.
Same as Saudi's at Newcastle.rick_chasey said:Exactly. Why was he ever let near the club?
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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Alexi Mordashov who owns 30% of TUI has also been sanctioned.
How does that impact people booking their holidays through TUI?0 -
And others.MattFalle said:.
Same as Saudi's at Newcastle.rick_chasey said:Exactly. Why was he ever let near the club?
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at least one good this about Chelsea not being able to sell any merchandise is that there is no chance of 1/2 and 1/2 scarves
#silverlining.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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agree completely but am really tired and couldn't be bothered to think of anyone else offhand.Dorset_Boy said:
And others.MattFalle said:.
Same as Saudi's at Newcastle.rick_chasey said:Exactly. Why was he ever let near the club?
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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On the subject of your previous post, would that apply to the Russians or do they just leave the injured behind so they are effectively the same as someone killed or do you reckon they treat them the same way you would?MattFalle said:To be very geeky, its part of the reason they changed the calibre of the round NATO use to a smaller, lightr round, however its started moving back to the larger heavier round for some weapons as it was realised in Afghan that the lighter round didn't have the punching/stopping power.
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MattFalle said:
Right, the principle is this.MattFalle said:
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well.
You don't actually want to kill people as overall, its a bit short sighted.
Kill someone, that's one bod off the battlefield. 50 to a truck bed, one driver, one bod in the passenger seat, two in the back to lift and shift.
That's 4 people and one truck, so doesn't really affect the enemy's logistics too much.
Now, injure someone quite badly, but not bad enough to kill them, and the ball game is completely.
Initially:
man down
medic working
sect commander sorting cas
signaller with Sect comander
2ic sorting rest of Section
if I'm with my little team on the ground then thats it - generally game over as I will have used up a large part of the 25kg of med kit I carry alongside everything else.
mission is now on hold/abandoned.
Whole net goes silent as 9 liner (cas report) is fed back. Call it another 3 bods dealing with that plus added hassle as no one can now talk to each other.
Then:
MERT/PEDRO called
So that's groundcrew, air asset, pilot, doctor, trauma spesh and team. If I'm not with my little team then that's me out of the game for as long as it takes then time added on to get airframe sorted, kit replenished, etc.
NATO works on Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze timings, so everything is full gas.
Call it a further 6 bods in the initial air asset.
So now 17 people tied up.
Air asset will also have protection: so, Blackhawk/Chinook as MERT, two Apaches as cover - another 4 blokes.
21 blokes now plus two or three groundcrew.
Air assets heads back to nearest hospital - for sake of argument lets say Bastion.
If it makes it and hasn't been shot down, cas handover. Receiving med staff - further doctor, trauma team, nurses.
Call it 6 bods
Right, now it gets interesting.
Full surgery team, so surgeon/s, ODP, anaethetist, nurses, etc - offhand, 15 people
Also all the equipt.
Then, post operative immediate care then to a ward - nurses, doctors, pharmacists, beds, linen, laundry, chefs, etc etc.
Then transport back to home country - another airframe, doctors, nurses, loggies, receiving staff
Then everything that happens when the poor sod gets back.
You're looking at 100 people plus tied up for a single cas.
Then you have the morale issue: body bags can just be buried, bods walking around with bits missing, talking to people, their family talking to people can't be stopped
Genpop starts to get low morale, public dissent starts, protests, social media, now you've got civpop issues to deal with that take up domestic resources.
Bods in the ranks also start to see their mates being badly hurt, so its a bitshit. More loss of morale.
Its all quite scientific, innit.
I once read an industry article about the design of grenades & bullets, from the engineering perspective: the amount of thought about how to splatter human flesh without killing the owner of the flesh was extraordinary, and stomach churning.0 -
yup.briantrumpet said:MattFalle said:
Right, the principle is this.MattFalle said:
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well.
You don't actually want to kill people as overall, its a bit short sighted.
Kill someone, that's one bod off the battlefield. 50 to a truck bed, one driver, one bod in the passenger seat, two in the back to lift and shift.
That's 4 people and one truck, so doesn't really affect the enemy's logistics too much.
Now, injure someone quite badly, but not bad enough to kill them, and the ball game is completely.
Initially:
man down
medic working
sect commander sorting cas
signaller with Sect comander
2ic sorting rest of Section
if I'm with my little team on the ground then thats it - generally game over as I will have used up a large part of the 25kg of med kit I carry alongside everything else.
mission is now on hold/abandoned.
Whole net goes silent as 9 liner (cas report) is fed back. Call it another 3 bods dealing with that plus added hassle as no one can now talk to each other.
Then:
MERT/PEDRO called
So that's groundcrew, air asset, pilot, doctor, trauma spesh and team. If I'm not with my little team then that's me out of the game for as long as it takes then time added on to get airframe sorted, kit replenished, etc.
NATO works on Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze timings, so everything is full gas.
Call it a further 6 bods in the initial air asset.
So now 17 people tied up.
Air asset will also have protection: so, Blackhawk/Chinook as MERT, two Apaches as cover - another 4 blokes.
21 blokes now plus two or three groundcrew.
Air assets heads back to nearest hospital - for sake of argument lets say Bastion.
If it makes it and hasn't been shot down, cas handover. Receiving med staff - further doctor, trauma team, nurses.
Call it 6 bods
Right, now it gets interesting.
Full surgery team, so surgeon/s, ODP, anaethetist, nurses, etc - offhand, 15 people
Also all the equipt.
Then, post operative immediate care then to a ward - nurses, doctors, pharmacists, beds, linen, laundry, chefs, etc etc.
Then transport back to home country - another airframe, doctors, nurses, loggies, receiving staff
Then everything that happens when the poor sod gets back.
You're looking at 100 people plus tied up for a single cas.
Then you have the morale issue: body bags can just be buried, bods walking around with bits missing, talking to people, their family talking to people can't be stopped
Genpop starts to get low morale, public dissent starts, protests, social media, now you've got civpop issues to deal with that take up domestic resources.
Bods in the ranks also start to see their mates being badly hurt, so its a bitshit. More loss of morale.
Its all quite scientific, innit.
I once read an industry article about the design of grenades & bullets, from the engineering perspective: the amount of thought about how to splatter human flesh without killing the owner of the flesh was extraordinary, and stomach churning.
i could go on about the effects of ballastic injuries nut its yukky and horrible and, tbh, i find it really sad.
i really, really, really fuckinghate guns..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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During the Russian build-up, there was talk of them moving up field hospitals, etc (as well as mobile crematoria). Any army that believed they were just going to be left for dead on the battlefield - rather than recovered/treated - is unlikely to be that interested in fighting for whatever cause they are being told to risk their lives for..Pross said:
On the subject of your previous post, would that apply to the Russians or do they just leave the injured behind so they are effectively the same as someone killed or do you reckon they treat them the same way you would?MattFalle said:To be very geeky, its part of the reason they changed the calibre of the round NATO use to a smaller, lightr round, however its started moving back to the larger heavier round for some weapons as it was realised in Afghan that the lighter round didn't have the punching/stopping power.
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they should be treating them the same way.Pross said:
On the subject of your previous post, would that apply to the Russians or do they just leave the injured behind so they are effectively the same as someone killed or do you reckon they treat them the same way you would?MattFalle said:To be very geeky, its part of the reason they changed the calibre of the round NATO use to a smaller, lightr round, however its started moving back to the larger heavier round for some weapons as it was realised in Afghan that the lighter round didn't have the punching/stopping power.
should be.......The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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MattFalle said:
yup.briantrumpet said:MattFalle said:
Right, the principle is this.MattFalle said:
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well.
You don't actually want to kill people as overall, its a bit short sighted.
Kill someone, that's one bod off the battlefield. 50 to a truck bed, one driver, one bod in the passenger seat, two in the back to lift and shift.
That's 4 people and one truck, so doesn't really affect the enemy's logistics too much.
Now, injure someone quite badly, but not bad enough to kill them, and the ball game is completely.
Initially:
man down
medic working
sect commander sorting cas
signaller with Sect comander
2ic sorting rest of Section
if I'm with my little team on the ground then thats it - generally game over as I will have used up a large part of the 25kg of med kit I carry alongside everything else.
mission is now on hold/abandoned.
Whole net goes silent as 9 liner (cas report) is fed back. Call it another 3 bods dealing with that plus added hassle as no one can now talk to each other.
Then:
MERT/PEDRO called
So that's groundcrew, air asset, pilot, doctor, trauma spesh and team. If I'm not with my little team then that's me out of the game for as long as it takes then time added on to get airframe sorted, kit replenished, etc.
NATO works on Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze timings, so everything is full gas.
Call it a further 6 bods in the initial air asset.
So now 17 people tied up.
Air asset will also have protection: so, Blackhawk/Chinook as MERT, two Apaches as cover - another 4 blokes.
21 blokes now plus two or three groundcrew.
Air assets heads back to nearest hospital - for sake of argument lets say Bastion.
If it makes it and hasn't been shot down, cas handover. Receiving med staff - further doctor, trauma team, nurses.
Call it 6 bods
Right, now it gets interesting.
Full surgery team, so surgeon/s, ODP, anaethetist, nurses, etc - offhand, 15 people
Also all the equipt.
Then, post operative immediate care then to a ward - nurses, doctors, pharmacists, beds, linen, laundry, chefs, etc etc.
Then transport back to home country - another airframe, doctors, nurses, loggies, receiving staff
Then everything that happens when the poor sod gets back.
You're looking at 100 people plus tied up for a single cas.
Then you have the morale issue: body bags can just be buried, bods walking around with bits missing, talking to people, their family talking to people can't be stopped
Genpop starts to get low morale, public dissent starts, protests, social media, now you've got civpop issues to deal with that take up domestic resources.
Bods in the ranks also start to see their mates being badly hurt, so its a bitshit. More loss of morale.
Its all quite scientific, innit.
I once read an industry article about the design of grenades & bullets, from the engineering perspective: the amount of thought about how to splatter human flesh without killing the owner of the flesh was extraordinary, and stomach churning.
i could go on about the effects of ballastic injuries nut its yukky and horrible and, tbh, i find it really sad.
i really, really, really fuckinghate guns.
I tried to wrap my head around the sort of intelligent people who'd put their scientific skills to meeting such specific and awful criteria, but didn't manage it. I guess it's what the 'arms industry' does, but I still can't imagine doing that day in, day out, for a job, however much they paid me.0 -
5.56 does enough damage. Both sides were lobbing 7.62 at each other in the Falklands, which was brutal...MattFalle said:
yup.briantrumpet said:MattFalle said:
Right, the principle is this.MattFalle said:
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well.
You don't actually want to kill people as overall, its a bit short sighted.
Kill someone, that's one bod off the battlefield. 50 to a truck bed, one driver, one bod in the passenger seat, two in the back to lift and shift.
That's 4 people and one truck, so doesn't really affect the enemy's logistics too much.
Now, injure someone quite badly, but not bad enough to kill them, and the ball game is completely.
Initially:
man down
medic working
sect commander sorting cas
signaller with Sect comander
2ic sorting rest of Section
if I'm with my little team on the ground then thats it - generally game over as I will have used up a large part of the 25kg of med kit I carry alongside everything else.
mission is now on hold/abandoned.
Whole net goes silent as 9 liner (cas report) is fed back. Call it another 3 bods dealing with that plus added hassle as no one can now talk to each other.
Then:
MERT/PEDRO called
So that's groundcrew, air asset, pilot, doctor, trauma spesh and team. If I'm not with my little team then that's me out of the game for as long as it takes then time added on to get airframe sorted, kit replenished, etc.
NATO works on Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze timings, so everything is full gas.
Call it a further 6 bods in the initial air asset.
So now 17 people tied up.
Air asset will also have protection: so, Blackhawk/Chinook as MERT, two Apaches as cover - another 4 blokes.
21 blokes now plus two or three groundcrew.
Air assets heads back to nearest hospital - for sake of argument lets say Bastion.
If it makes it and hasn't been shot down, cas handover. Receiving med staff - further doctor, trauma team, nurses.
Call it 6 bods
Right, now it gets interesting.
Full surgery team, so surgeon/s, ODP, anaethetist, nurses, etc - offhand, 15 people
Also all the equipt.
Then, post operative immediate care then to a ward - nurses, doctors, pharmacists, beds, linen, laundry, chefs, etc etc.
Then transport back to home country - another airframe, doctors, nurses, loggies, receiving staff
Then everything that happens when the poor sod gets back.
You're looking at 100 people plus tied up for a single cas.
Then you have the morale issue: body bags can just be buried, bods walking around with bits missing, talking to people, their family talking to people can't be stopped
Genpop starts to get low morale, public dissent starts, protests, social media, now you've got civpop issues to deal with that take up domestic resources.
Bods in the ranks also start to see their mates being badly hurt, so its a bitshit. More loss of morale.
Its all quite scientific, innit.
I once read an industry article about the design of grenades & bullets, from the engineering perspective: the amount of thought about how to splatter human flesh without killing the owner of the flesh was extraordinary, and stomach churning.
i could go on about the effects of ballastic injuries nut its yukky and horrible and, tbh, i find it really sad.
i really, really, really fuckinghate guns.0 -
5.56 is designed to wound whilst pinging around inside you like a ping pong ball shattering bones, major organs and causing pressure injuries together with temporary and permanent cavitation, but not kill you.imposter2.0 said:
5.56 does enough damage. Both sides were lobbing 7.62 at each other in the Falklands, which was brutal...MattFalle said:
yup.briantrumpet said:MattFalle said:
Right, the principle is this.MattFalle said:
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well.
You don't actually want to kill people as overall, its a bit short sighted.
Kill someone, that's one bod off the battlefield. 50 to a truck bed, one driver, one bod in the passenger seat, two in the back to lift and shift.
That's 4 people and one truck, so doesn't really affect the enemy's logistics too much.
Now, injure someone quite badly, but not bad enough to kill them, and the ball game is completely.
Initially:
man down
medic working
sect commander sorting cas
signaller with Sect comander
2ic sorting rest of Section
if I'm with my little team on the ground then thats it - generally game over as I will have used up a large part of the 25kg of med kit I carry alongside everything else.
mission is now on hold/abandoned.
Whole net goes silent as 9 liner (cas report) is fed back. Call it another 3 bods dealing with that plus added hassle as no one can now talk to each other.
Then:
MERT/PEDRO called
So that's groundcrew, air asset, pilot, doctor, trauma spesh and team. If I'm not with my little team then that's me out of the game for as long as it takes then time added on to get airframe sorted, kit replenished, etc.
NATO works on Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze timings, so everything is full gas.
Call it a further 6 bods in the initial air asset.
So now 17 people tied up.
Air asset will also have protection: so, Blackhawk/Chinook as MERT, two Apaches as cover - another 4 blokes.
21 blokes now plus two or three groundcrew.
Air assets heads back to nearest hospital - for sake of argument lets say Bastion.
If it makes it and hasn't been shot down, cas handover. Receiving med staff - further doctor, trauma team, nurses.
Call it 6 bods
Right, now it gets interesting.
Full surgery team, so surgeon/s, ODP, anaethetist, nurses, etc - offhand, 15 people
Also all the equipt.
Then, post operative immediate care then to a ward - nurses, doctors, pharmacists, beds, linen, laundry, chefs, etc etc.
Then transport back to home country - another airframe, doctors, nurses, loggies, receiving staff
Then everything that happens when the poor sod gets back.
You're looking at 100 people plus tied up for a single cas.
Then you have the morale issue: body bags can just be buried, bods walking around with bits missing, talking to people, their family talking to people can't be stopped
Genpop starts to get low morale, public dissent starts, protests, social media, now you've got civpop issues to deal with that take up domestic resources.
Bods in the ranks also start to see their mates being badly hurt, so its a bitshit. More loss of morale.
Its all quite scientific, innit.
I once read an industry article about the design of grenades & bullets, from the engineering perspective: the amount of thought about how to splatter human flesh without killing the owner of the flesh was extraordinary, and stomach churning.
i could go on about the effects of ballastic injuries nut its yukky and horrible and, tbh, i find it really sad.
i really, really, really fuckinghate guns.
7.62 blows holes in things - people, cars, walls.....
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
they see it as just a job - a project to be completed.briantrumpet said:MattFalle said:
yup.briantrumpet said:MattFalle said:
Right, the principle is this.MattFalle said:
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well.
You don't actually want to kill people as overall, its a bit short sighted.
Kill someone, that's one bod off the battlefield. 50 to a truck bed, one driver, one bod in the passenger seat, two in the back to lift and shift.
That's 4 people and one truck, so doesn't really affect the enemy's logistics too much.
Now, injure someone quite badly, but not bad enough to kill them, and the ball game is completely.
Initially:
man down
medic working
sect commander sorting cas
signaller with Sect comander
2ic sorting rest of Section
if I'm with my little team on the ground then thats it - generally game over as I will have used up a large part of the 25kg of med kit I carry alongside everything else.
mission is now on hold/abandoned.
Whole net goes silent as 9 liner (cas report) is fed back. Call it another 3 bods dealing with that plus added hassle as no one can now talk to each other.
Then:
MERT/PEDRO called
So that's groundcrew, air asset, pilot, doctor, trauma spesh and team. If I'm not with my little team then that's me out of the game for as long as it takes then time added on to get airframe sorted, kit replenished, etc.
NATO works on Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze timings, so everything is full gas.
Call it a further 6 bods in the initial air asset.
So now 17 people tied up.
Air asset will also have protection: so, Blackhawk/Chinook as MERT, two Apaches as cover - another 4 blokes.
21 blokes now plus two or three groundcrew.
Air assets heads back to nearest hospital - for sake of argument lets say Bastion.
If it makes it and hasn't been shot down, cas handover. Receiving med staff - further doctor, trauma team, nurses.
Call it 6 bods
Right, now it gets interesting.
Full surgery team, so surgeon/s, ODP, anaethetist, nurses, etc - offhand, 15 people
Also all the equipt.
Then, post operative immediate care then to a ward - nurses, doctors, pharmacists, beds, linen, laundry, chefs, etc etc.
Then transport back to home country - another airframe, doctors, nurses, loggies, receiving staff
Then everything that happens when the poor sod gets back.
You're looking at 100 people plus tied up for a single cas.
Then you have the morale issue: body bags can just be buried, bods walking around with bits missing, talking to people, their family talking to people can't be stopped
Genpop starts to get low morale, public dissent starts, protests, social media, now you've got civpop issues to deal with that take up domestic resources.
Bods in the ranks also start to see their mates being badly hurt, so its a bitshit. More loss of morale.
Its all quite scientific, innit.
I once read an industry article about the design of grenades & bullets, from the engineering perspective: the amount of thought about how to splatter human flesh without killing the owner of the flesh was extraordinary, and stomach churning.
i could go on about the effects of ballastic injuries nut its yukky and horrible and, tbh, i find it really sad.
i really, really, really fuckinghate guns.
I tried to wrap my head around the sort of intelligent people who'd put their scientific skills to meeting such specific and awful criteria, but didn't manage it. I guess it's what the 'arms industry' does, but I still can't imagine doing that day in, day out, for a job, however much they paid me.
i, personally, couldn't do it..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60693166
From the Ukrainian front line in Kharkiv. The Russians don't take their dead.0 -
'From the front passenger seat Lt Gromadsky says, "Sometimes they use this tactic - first, they raise a white flag above their equipment, then come closer to our positions. When we come up and kind of take them as prisoners of war, they start to open fire on our troops."'0
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How are the Russians fighting, I ask. "They fight like stupid animals," says Reaper. "They fight like it's 1941 - they have no manoeuvrability, they just come to the front and that's all. They have a lot of people, a lot of tanks, a lot of vehicles, but we are fighting for our land, and we are protecting our families. it doesn't matter how they fight because we fight like lions and they won't win."0
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The amount of working kit they're walking (or running) away from is staggering.
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FYI that 'O' means it's from the group that came down from Belarus.0
