Poo tin... Put@in...
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Fair enough. Sounds petty.rick_chasey said:0 -
Why? Is it petty? The point of freezing assets is that. To freeze them.
Chelsea are lucky they've had special dispensation to keep playing football.
They're clearly looking at ways to stop these guys using clubs to launder their money.
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Why? Do you support Chelsea?TheBigBean said:
Fair enough. Sounds petty.rick_chasey said:0 -
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It's going to be interesting to see what the FA do as I think they have rules that a certain amount of tickets have to be made available to away supporters.rick_chasey said:So Ambramovich has had all his assets frozen, including Chelsea. No more tickets allowed to be sold, only season ticket holders can go etc.
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Free tickets for fans in official fan clubs?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
This hasn't happened a moment too soon. The sale should never have been allowed in the first place, 10years ago or whatever it is.Ben
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Fortunately no more clubs have since been sold to any totalitarian regimes or murderers.2
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No.First.Aspect said:
Why? Do you support Chelsea?TheBigBean said:
Fair enough. Sounds petty.rick_chasey said:
Better to put in place the sale and donate £3bn to Ukrainian relief.0 -
Only if you ignore the tweets after it.TheBigBean said:- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Yes, I was unconvinced.pangolin said:
Only if you ignore the tweets after it.TheBigBean said:0 -
It is worth reminding everyone of who Abramovich is.
He came to his great riches via the Aluminium wars in the post-Soviet state-asset sell off. They are considered to be the most fiercely contested of the state asset sell offs, during which time various industry owners, CEOs, bankers and journalists were murdered in a series of gang-like assassinations, drive bys, torture etc. This is all publicly available knowledge.
Abramovich himself has been fairly open, even in a UK court, that he came to his riches via buying Russian state assets at ginormous discounts.
3 guys came out on top of the aluminium wars, Roman Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky, and Oleg Deripaska.
Oleg was the most successful of all of them and was briefly the richest man in Russia. He bought himself Cypriot citizenship in order to obtain an EU passport. He’s just been sanctioned. He founded Rusal which was a JV with his business and Abramovich’s.
Boris Berezovsky ran foul of Putin in 2000 after he ran against him in the Duma and started mouthing off about Putin, so he sought residency in the UK. He then made himself even more of a nuisance in 2012 when he sued Abramovich, ultimately unsuccessfully, about the ownership of a firm called Sibneft. A year later, he was found dead. The coroner at the inquest into Berezovsky's death later recorded an open verdict – i.e.e suspicious, but not unable to find a the real cause of death. Most people who have looked into this assume he was murdered on orders of Putin.
When Litvinenko was murdered, he was investigating Abramovich for money laundering (see here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/16/litvinenko-investigating-abramovich-money-laundering-claims-court-told) and there are suggestions (though remember who owns this particular newspaper), that Abramovich still launders money for Putin specifically: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/roman-abramovich-vladimir-putin-kgb-chelsea-fc-justice-b967989.html and that he bought a UK high profile football club (he had a choice between Chelsea and spurs) on Putin’s orders.
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He has been sanctioned specifically under the anti-money laundering act.TheBigBean said:
Yes, I was unconvinced.pangolin said:
Only if you ignore the tweets after it.TheBigBean said:0 -
The Russian armour geeks are starting to see destroyed Soviet era T-72A model tanks getting knocked out. Is the attrition so bad now that they're using very outdated equipment in certain parts of Ukraine?
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Yeah but look at all the trophies they won. That has to count for something.0
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Oleg, Abramovich's JV business partner FWIW, was caught up in the Paul Manafort scandal and that leading opposition figure Navanly who survived a murder attempt and is currently in Russian prison, made a youtube video outlining exactly how he was the middleman and helped arranged the Russian interfearance in the US election. > the day after it was published, the Russian government (i.e. Putin) made watching the video an illegal offence.0
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A cynical person may ask if they are saving the good stuff for something bigger.thegreatdivide said:The Russian armour geeks are starting to see destroyed Soviet era T-72A model tanks getting knocked out. Is the attrition so bad now that they're using very outdated equipment in certain parts of Ukraine?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Yes in a way, it's all in Syria...pblakeney said:
A cynical person may ask if they are saving the good stuff for something bigger.thegreatdivide said:The Russian armour geeks are starting to see destroyed Soviet era T-72A model tanks getting knocked out. Is the attrition so bad now that they're using very outdated equipment in certain parts of Ukraine?
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Someone made a valid point in the comments when that question was asked:pblakeney said:
A cynical person may ask if they are saving the good stuff for something bigger.thegreatdivide said:The Russian armour geeks are starting to see destroyed Soviet era T-72A model tanks getting knocked out. Is the attrition so bad now that they're using very outdated equipment in certain parts of Ukraine?
"With 17,000+ Anti Tank Weapons already deployed, Russian doesn't have enough tin to waste. This is certainly a Javelin, NLAW conflict and Russia is being degraded rapidly."0 -
Wikipedia is available.rick_chasey said:It is worth reminding everyone of who Abramovich is.
He came to his great riches via the Aluminium wars in the post-Soviet state-asset sell off. They are considered to be the most fiercely contested of the state asset sell offs, during which time various industry owners, CEOs, bankers and journalists were murdered in a series of gang-like assassinations, drive bys, torture etc. This is all publicly available knowledge.
Abramovich himself has been fairly open, even in a UK court, that he came to his riches via buying Russian state assets at ginormous discounts.
3 guys came out on top of the aluminium wars, Roman Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky, and Oleg Deripaska.
Oleg was the most successful of all of them and was briefly the richest man in Russia. He bought himself Cypriot citizenship in order to obtain an EU passport. He’s just been sanctioned. He founded Rusal which was a JV with his business and Abramovich’s.
Boris Berezovsky ran foul of Putin in 2000 after he ran against him in the Duma and started mouthing off about Putin, so he sought residency in the UK. He then made himself even more of a nuisance in 2012 when he sued Abramovich, ultimately unsuccessfully, about the ownership of a firm called Sibneft. A year later, he was found dead. The coroner at the inquest into Berezovsky's death later recorded an open verdict – i.e.e suspicious, but not unable to find a the real cause of death. Most people who have looked into this assume he was murdered on orders of Putin.
When Litvinenko was murdered, he was investigating Abramovich for money laundering (see here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/16/litvinenko-investigating-abramovich-money-laundering-claims-court-told) and there are suggestions (though remember who owns this particular newspaper), that Abramovich still launders money for Putin specifically: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/roman-abramovich-vladimir-putin-kgb-chelsea-fc-justice-b967989.html and that he bought a UK high profile football club (he had a choice between Chelsea and spurs) on Putin’s orders.0 -
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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thegreatdivide said:
Someone made a valid point in the comments when that question was asked:pblakeney said:
A cynical person may ask if they are saving the good stuff for something bigger.thegreatdivide said:The Russian armour geeks are starting to see destroyed Soviet era T-72A model tanks getting knocked out. Is the attrition so bad now that they're using very outdated equipment in certain parts of Ukraine?
"With 17,000+ Anti Tank Weapons already deployed, Russian doesn't have enough tin to waste. This is certainly a Javelin, NLAW conflict and Russia is being degraded rapidly."
Each destroyed T-72A also means 3 dead soldiers. That really starts to sap the morale of other tankies sat in their cold metal boxes wondering when a Javelin or NLAW will be incoming.0 -
They are sold by the away club who takes the revenues.Pross said:
It's going to be interesting to see what the FA do as I think they have rules that a certain amount of tickets have to be made available to away supporters.rick_chasey said:So Ambramovich has had all his assets frozen, including Chelsea. No more tickets allowed to be sold, only season ticket holders can go etc.
Edit - this is wrong see later post.0 -
. . . but surely need to be sold to the away club by the home club, no?TheBigBean said:
They are sold by the away club who takes the revenues.Pross said:
It's going to be interesting to see what the FA do as I think they have rules that a certain amount of tickets have to be made available to away supporters.rick_chasey said:So Ambramovich has had all his assets frozen, including Chelsea. No more tickets allowed to be sold, only season ticket holders can go etc.
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
No, they are given.laurentian said:
. . . but surely need to be sold to the away club by the home club, no?TheBigBean said:
They are sold by the away club who takes the revenues.Pross said:
It's going to be interesting to see what the FA do as I think they have rules that a certain amount of tickets have to be made available to away supporters.rick_chasey said:So Ambramovich has had all his assets frozen, including Chelsea. No more tickets allowed to be sold, only season ticket holders can go etc.
Edit - this is wrong, see later post.1 -
Right, the principle is this.MattFalle said:
not really - let me have lunch and I'll exain: its actually quite intriguing and explains certain things but essentially in war you don't want to kill people.rick_chasey said:
Certainly not the dead, there are * a lot* of reports (though it could be propaganda so let's give it a pinch of salt) that the Russians are not really bothering picking up their own dead - presumably for the reason you're describing above.MattFalle said:
remember the asset and equipt tie up re the wounded.rick_chasey said:
that's a major part of what will be slowing them down as well.
You don't actually want to kill people as overall, its a bit short sighted.
Kill someone, that's one bod off the battlefield. 50 to a truck bed, one driver, one bod in the passenger seat, two in the back to lift and shift.
That's 4 people and one truck, so doesn't really affect the enemy's logistics too much.
Now, injure someone quite badly, but not bad enough to kill them, and the ball game is completely.
Initially:
man down
medic working
sect commander sorting cas
signaller with Sect comander
2ic sorting rest of Section
if I'm with my little team on the ground then thats it - generally game over as I will have used up a large part of the 25kg of med kit I carry alongside everything else.
mission is now on hold/abandoned.
Whole net goes silent as 9 liner (cas report) is fed back. Call it another 3 bods dealing with that plus added hassle as no one can now talk to each other.
Then:
MERT/PEDRO called
So that's groundcrew, air asset, pilot, doctor, trauma spesh and team. If I'm not with my little team then that's me out of the game for as long as it takes then time added on to get airframe sorted, kit replenished, etc.
NATO works on Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze timings, so everything is full gas.
Call it a further 6 bods in the initial air asset.
So now 17 people tied up.
Air asset will also have protection: so, Blackhawk/Chinook as MERT, two Apaches as cover - another 4 blokes.
21 blokes now plus two or three groundcrew.
Air assets heads back to nearest hospital - for sake of argument lets say Bastion.
If it makes it and hasn't been shot down, cas handover. Receiving med staff - further doctor, trauma team, nurses.
Call it 6 bods
Right, now it gets interesting.
Full surgery team, so surgeon/s, ODP, anaethetist, nurses, etc - offhand, 15 people
Also all the equipt.
Then, post operative immediate care then to a ward - nurses, doctors, pharmacists, beds, linen, laundry, chefs, etc etc.
Then transport back to home country - another airframe, doctors, nurses, loggies, receiving staff
Then everything that happens when the poor sod gets back.
You're looking at 100 people plus tied up for a single cas.
Then you have the morale issue: body bags can just be buried, bods walking around with bits missing, talking to people, their family talking to people can't be stopped
Genpop starts to get low morale, public dissent starts, protests, social media, now you've got civpop issues to deal with that take up domestic resources.
Bods in the ranks also start to see their mates being badly hurt, so its a bitshit. More loss of morale.
Its all quite scientific, innit.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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To be very geeky, its part of the reason they changed the calibre of the round NATO use to a smaller, lightr round, however its started moving back to the larger heavier round for some weapons as it was realised in Afghan that the lighter round didn't have the punching/stopping power..
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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