Poo tin... Put@in...

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

Indeed, but I still think/hope that patience and the 'chipping away' at Russia's ability to defend will make what might be incremental gains now turn into more significant ones eventually. My ignorant layman's guess is that they still have Crimea as the primary goal, and they are trying to make its defence too hard/expensive for the Russians.

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1700943531982876803

and yet they have retaken an area the size of Edinburgh.

If you take off the pro-Ukraine blinkers you have to acknowledge that the Russian defence along such a long front is miraculous. Unless Ukraine continues into winter then they will have another 6 months to strengthen

There's nothing miraculous it's just numbers.

obviously none of us know the full story but it seems to be far mre than numbers, they seem to have developed very effective tactics and defensive systems.

To not find a weak spot in a 600 mile frontline is remarkable.

My own suspicion is that without air superiorit it is extremely difficult and risky to amass forces.

I do think that Ukraine's allies drip feeding ordnance is not helping.

they don't have the industrial capability to supply more

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

I think that makes it easier. Supposing there is some settlement. There's absolutely nothing to stop Putin picking up where he left off launching missiles at Kyiv or elsewhere and restarting incursions once he has regrouped. Agreements with people like that are meaningless. Who would hold him to the agreement?

Not sure what makes what easier.

I am saying the the general population and political will of the West can not continue indefinitely and at that point that will have to reach a peace agreement.

The fact that nobody will trust each other is why the border will be partly decided by geography.

History is littered with these sorts of agreements

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

You can't negotiate with Putin, or at least, if you do, you will end up losing.

He's geared up the entirety of Russia for this war. He will stop at nothing short of nuclear war to win it.

If you don't fully defeat them or at least cripple Russia to the point of regime change, how can you take any peace agreement as anything other than a chance for Russia to regroup and attack again?

and at some point his economy will implode or their will be a general revolt against the maiming and the killing.

First.Aspect

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

You can't negotiate with Putin, or at least, if you do, you will end up losing.

He's geared up the entirety of Russia for this war. He will stop at nothing short of nuclear war to win it.

If you don't fully defeat them or at least cripple Russia to the point of regime change, how can you take any peace agreement as anything other than a chance for Russia to regroup and attack again?

and at some point his economy will implode or their will be a general revolt against the maiming and the killing.

There won't be a revolt from within Russia. That's wishful thinking.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

I think that makes it easier. Supposing there is some settlement. There's absolutely nothing to stop Putin picking up where he left off launching missiles at Kyiv or elsewhere and restarting incursions once he has regrouped. Agreements with people like that are meaningless. Who would hold him to the agreement?

Not sure what makes what easier.

I am saying the the general population and political will of the West can not continue indefinitely and at that point that will have to reach a peace agreement.

The fact that nobody will trust each other is why the border will be partly decided by geography.

History is littered with these sorts of agreements

You've switched from saying that Ukraine don't have the stomach for it (after less time than we were in the Balkans) to arguing that the general public of... where? ... won't support it. And those agreements generally don't last unless enforced with arms. Who enforces?

briantrumpet

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

Indeed, but I still think/hope that patience and the 'chipping away' at Russia's ability to defend will make what might be incremental gains now turn into more significant ones eventually. My ignorant layman's guess is that they still have Crimea as the primary goal, and they are trying to make its defence too hard/expensive for the Russians.

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1700943531982876803

and yet they have retaken an area the size of Edinburgh.

If you take off the pro-Ukraine blinkers you have to acknowledge that the Russian defence along such a long front is miraculous. Unless Ukraine continues into winter then they will have another 6 months to strengthen

There's nothing miraculous it's just numbers.

obviously none of us know the full story but it seems to be far mre than numbers, they seem to have developed very effective tactics and defensive systems.

To not find a weak spot in a 600 mile frontline is remarkable.

My own suspicion is that without air superiorit it is extremely difficult and risky to amass forces.

I do think that Ukraine's allies drip feeding ordnance is not helping.

True, but my impression is that, especially with the US, they are trying to do *just enough* to tip it towards Ukraine, both for domestic politics, and wider considerations about what they might be expected to do in this and in the future. My uninformed guess is that the US could provide some dealy and very precise missiles that would take out even more Russian strategic stuff (boats, bridges, etc), but they are trying to avoid the 'proxy war' label, so are trying to walk a metaphorical tightrope.

pblakeney

That tightrope is getting wobbly. Stories of Kim Jong-Un's meeting being about the supply of weapons from N. Korea, which come from China. Precarious proxy.

TheBigBean

pblakeney said:

That tightrope is getting wobbly. Stories of Kim Jong-Un's meeting being about the supply of weapons from N. Korea, which come from China. Precarious proxy.

I thought North Korea made a lot of its own weapons. Part of the reason they want to sell them to Russia is in exchange for Russia putting some satellites in space for them. Those satellites will then help with other weapons.

pblakeney

Just repeating something in the Newscast podcast.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

I think that makes it easier. Supposing there is some settlement. There's absolutely nothing to stop Putin picking up where he left off launching missiles at Kyiv or elsewhere and restarting incursions once he has regrouped. Agreements with people like that are meaningless. Who would hold him to the agreement?

Not sure what makes what easier.

I am saying the the general population and political will of the West can not continue indefinitely and at that point that will have to reach a peace agreement.

The fact that nobody will trust each other is why the border will be partly decided by geography.

History is littered with these sorts of agreements

You've switched from saying that Ukraine don't have the stomach for it (after less time than we were in the Balkans) to arguing that the general public of... where? ... won't support it. And those agreements generally don't last unless enforced with arms. Who enforces?

Nope, I am saying any country would lose the stomach for it.

When were we fighting in the Balkans?

How about America in Afghanistan or in Vietnam or France in WW2 or Germany in WW1?

Say they have lost 100,000 fighting age men and now imagine their family, friends and neighbours stood around each grave. That is a large % of the population who have been directly touched by the war.

And then chuck in the 20,000 amputees and then add on the others with life changing injuries.

surrey_commuter

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

You can't negotiate with Putin, or at least, if you do, you will end up losing.

He's geared up the entirety of Russia for this war. He will stop at nothing short of nuclear war to win it.

If you don't fully defeat them or at least cripple Russia to the point of regime change, how can you take any peace agreement as anything other than a chance for Russia to regroup and attack again?

and at some point his economy will implode or their will be a general revolt against the maiming and the killing.

There won't be a revolt from within Russia. That's wishful thinking.

They have already had one that had no serious military opposition before it mysteriously fizzled out. FFS they were driving up the motorway to Moscow.

surrey_commuter

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

Indeed, but I still think/hope that patience and the 'chipping away' at Russia's ability to defend will make what might be incremental gains now turn into more significant ones eventually. My ignorant layman's guess is that they still have Crimea as the primary goal, and they are trying to make its defence too hard/expensive for the Russians.

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1700943531982876803

and yet they have retaken an area the size of Edinburgh.

If you take off the pro-Ukraine blinkers you have to acknowledge that the Russian defence along such a long front is miraculous. Unless Ukraine continues into winter then they will have another 6 months to strengthen

There's nothing miraculous it's just numbers.

obviously none of us know the full story but it seems to be far mre than numbers, they seem to have developed very effective tactics and defensive systems.

To not find a weak spot in a 600 mile frontline is remarkable.

My own suspicion is that without air superiorit it is extremely difficult and risky to amass forces.

I do think that Ukraine's allies drip feeding ordnance is not helping.

True, but my impression is that, especially with the US, they are trying to do *just enough* to tip it towards Ukraine, both for domestic politics, and wider considerations about what they might be expected to do in this and in the future. My uninformed guess is that the US could provide some dealy and very precise missiles that would take out even more Russian strategic stuff (boats, bridges, etc), but they are trying to avoid the 'proxy war' label, so are trying to walk a metaphorical tightrope.

If we invaded Ireland and Europe was training their troops and USA was supplying them with better weapons than we had it would sure feel like a proxy war.

briantrumpet

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

Indeed, but I still think/hope that patience and the 'chipping away' at Russia's ability to defend will make what might be incremental gains now turn into more significant ones eventually. My ignorant layman's guess is that they still have Crimea as the primary goal, and they are trying to make its defence too hard/expensive for the Russians.

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1700943531982876803

and yet they have retaken an area the size of Edinburgh.

If you take off the pro-Ukraine blinkers you have to acknowledge that the Russian defence along such a long front is miraculous. Unless Ukraine continues into winter then they will have another 6 months to strengthen

There's nothing miraculous it's just numbers.

obviously none of us know the full story but it seems to be far mre than numbers, they seem to have developed very effective tactics and defensive systems.

To not find a weak spot in a 600 mile frontline is remarkable.

My own suspicion is that without air superiorit it is extremely difficult and risky to amass forces.

I do think that Ukraine's allies drip feeding ordnance is not helping.

True, but my impression is that, especially with the US, they are trying to do *just enough* to tip it towards Ukraine, both for domestic politics, and wider considerations about what they might be expected to do in this and in the future. My uninformed guess is that the US could provide some dealy and very precise missiles that would take out even more Russian strategic stuff (boats, bridges, etc), but they are trying to avoid the 'proxy war' label, so are trying to walk a metaphorical tightrope.

If we invaded Ireland and Europe was training their troops and USA was supplying them with better weapons than we had it would sure feel like a proxy war.

I think we might have had round-and-round discussions about the term previously. Regardless of the terminology, I still think that the US is consciously trying to walk the political tightrope as best it can (in its own view, maybe not to others.)

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

I think that makes it easier. Supposing there is some settlement. There's absolutely nothing to stop Putin picking up where he left off launching missiles at Kyiv or elsewhere and restarting incursions once he has regrouped. Agreements with people like that are meaningless. Who would hold him to the agreement?

Not sure what makes what easier.

I am saying the the general population and political will of the West can not continue indefinitely and at that point that will have to reach a peace agreement.

The fact that nobody will trust each other is why the border will be partly decided by geography.

History is littered with these sorts of agreements

You've switched from saying that Ukraine don't have the stomach for it (after less time than we were in the Balkans) to arguing that the general public of... where? ... won't support it. And those agreements generally don't last unless enforced with arms. Who enforces?

Nope, I am saying any country would lose the stomach for it.

When were we fighting in the Balkans?

How about America in Afghanistan or in Vietnam or France in WW2 or Germany in WW1?

Say they have lost 100,000 fighting age men and now imagine their family, friends and neighbours stood around each grave. That is a large % of the population who have been directly touched by the war.

And then chuck in the 20,000 amputees and then add on the others with life changing injuries.

It's an existential fight for Ukraine. Russia is explicitly trying to erase it from the map. Afghanistan and Vietnam were not existential for America, so they could leave.
Conceding land to Russia does not stop anything. It doesn't preserve the thing that Ukraine is fighting for.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

Indeed, but I still think/hope that patience and the 'chipping away' at Russia's ability to defend will make what might be incremental gains now turn into more significant ones eventually. My ignorant layman's guess is that they still have Crimea as the primary goal, and they are trying to make its defence too hard/expensive for the Russians.

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1700943531982876803

and yet they have retaken an area the size of Edinburgh.

If you take off the pro-Ukraine blinkers you have to acknowledge that the Russian defence along such a long front is miraculous. Unless Ukraine continues into winter then they will have another 6 months to strengthen

There's nothing miraculous it's just numbers.

obviously none of us know the full story but it seems to be far mre than numbers, they seem to have developed very effective tactics and defensive systems.

To not find a weak spot in a 600 mile frontline is remarkable.

My own suspicion is that without air superiorit it is extremely difficult and risky to amass forces.

I do think that Ukraine's allies drip feeding ordnance is not helping.

True, but my impression is that, especially with the US, they are trying to do *just enough* to tip it towards Ukraine, both for domestic politics, and wider considerations about what they might be expected to do in this and in the future. My uninformed guess is that the US could provide some dealy and very precise missiles that would take out even more Russian strategic stuff (boats, bridges, etc), but they are trying to avoid the 'proxy war' label, so are trying to walk a metaphorical tightrope.

If we invaded Ireland and Europe was training their troops and USA was supplying them with better weapons than we had it would sure feel like a proxy war.

Wow.
Paging @tailwindhome
Third countries have always picked a side. This is no different.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

First.Aspect said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

It will be muddy soon giving the Russians another several months moths to build defences.

I have not changed my mind that the new border will be on the water features

This makes sense and it would probably save a lot of time and lives if both sides become pragmatic about it.

I think you two are both kidding yourselves that Putin will settle.

I don't think either side will settle.
It was optimism over expectation. Mores the pity.

If the population refuse to pay the butchers bill then they will have to settle.

I read somewhere that Zelensky has a 19 year old son, would be a bit embarassing if he dodged the draft.

I think having some released convicts murder your neighbour and abduct your kids is quite a strong motivator. They've seen what settling looks like since 2014 and in Syria or Georgia or Chechnya. It doesn't stop.

Why would Russia stop if they are rewarded with a bit of Ukraine for their troubles?

but on a personal level it is you, your husband, father or son who is getting maimed or killed. You can run out of heroes.

You can't negotiate with Putin, or at least, if you do, you will end up losing.

He's geared up the entirety of Russia for this war. He will stop at nothing short of nuclear war to win it.

If you don't fully defeat them or at least cripple Russia to the point of regime change, how can you take any peace agreement as anything other than a chance for Russia to regroup and attack again?

and at some point his economy will implode or their will be a general revolt against the maiming and the killing.

There won't be a revolt from within Russia. That's wishful thinking.

They have already had one that had no serious military opposition before it mysteriously fizzled out. FFS they were driving up the motorway to Moscow.

That was not a popular revolt, and certainly not against the war.

rick_chasey

I think how the Russians treat occupied Ukraine helps stiffen Ukrainian resolve.

https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/1702785478217347542?s=46&t=Q7O5dnx-0MXQv9qE3vz1vg

pblakeney

Tbf, nobody else seems to care either.
Guess everyone becomes desensitised over time.

rick_chasey

pblakeney said:

Tbf, nobody else seems to care either.
Guess everyone becomes desensitised over time.

Or too frightened to…

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Tbf, nobody else seems to care either.
Guess everyone becomes desensitised over time.

Or too frightened to…

Nah. Somethng's not right.
I'm not buying it.

briantrumpet

[wrong thread]

thegreatdivide

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

Three S400 systems now knocked out in Crimea. Russia has six systems in total. ATACMS on the way. The slow but effective degradation of Russia’s air defence is nearly done. They’re so f@cked.

briantrumpet

thegreatdivide said:

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

rick_chasey said:

Comes a point where it needs to translate into gains

Three S400 systems now knocked out in Crimea. Russia has six systems in total. ATACMS on the way. The slow but effective degradation of Russia’s air defence is nearly done. They’re so f@cked.

It's this kind of what appears to be a slow but steady plan that gives me some hope. On the other side comes the MoD assessment that Russia is amassing stockpiles of missiles for a winter campaign of strikes against civilian infrastructure that dents that hope.

rjsterry

Seems like Kadyrov has been bumped off for speaking his mind, too. So wouldn't be surprised if there's trouble in Chechnya.

pblakeney

Wonder when these people will realise that life is good if Putin is happy while life is short if Putin is unhappy.

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

Wonder when these people will realise that life is good if Putin is happy while life is short if Putin is unhappy.

He just can't afford tolerate any dissent.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

Wonder when these people will realise that life is good if Putin is happy while life is short if Putin is unhappy.

He just can't afford tolerate any dissent.

Yeah, but he does take punishment to the ultimate level.
Does display the level to which some people are unhappy if they still risk it.

rjsterry

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

Wonder when these people will realise that life is good if Putin is happy while life is short if Putin is unhappy.

He just can't afford tolerate any dissent.

Yeah, but he does take punishment to the ultimate level.
Does display the level to which some people are unhappy if they still risk it.

If you got where you are by bumping off any rivals you can't stop.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

Wonder when these people will realise that life is good if Putin is happy while life is short if Putin is unhappy.

He just can't afford tolerate any dissent.

Yeah, but he does take punishment to the ultimate level.
Does display the level to which some people are unhappy if they still risk it.

If you got where you are by bumping off any rivals you can't stop.

TBF he didn't bump off his rivals in his ascension.

He did plant bombs underneath blocks of flats and falsely blame terrorists for a ratings bump, and later once in power he spent a lot of time stealing from oligarchs who in turn stole from the Russian state long before he started assassinating rivals.

pblakeney

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

rjsterry said:

pblakeney said:

Wonder when these people will realise that life is good if Putin is happy while life is short if Putin is unhappy.

He just can't afford tolerate any dissent.

Yeah, but he does take punishment to the ultimate level.
Does display the level to which some people are unhappy if they still risk it.

If you got where you are by bumping off any rivals you can't stop.

Agreed. It's the actions of the dissenters that interests me. You either have to see it through to completion, or disappear while you can.