Poo tin... Put@in...

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  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65493008

    Doesn't bode well if their ally on the ground is deserting them, when the counter offensive due to start in the next two weeks.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,691
    One Ivan learned something...

    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMYEPme8x/
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,255
    ddraver said:

    One Ivan learned something...

    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMYEPme8x/

    Tbf, hanging a Ukraine flag behind a Russian delegate isn't the best look either.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    pblakeney said:

    ddraver said:

    One Ivan learned something...

    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMYEPme8x/

    Tbf, hanging a Ukraine flag behind a Russian delegate isn't the best look either.
    and neither is attacking a bespectacled pensioner
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,460
    Found it quite amusing that Russia was getting all upset that Ukraine (and the US allegedly) blew that drone up on the Kremlin when they've invaded Ukraine and have spent over a year firing indiscriminate missiles into their cities.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,645
    Pross said:

    Found it quite amusing that Russia was getting all upset that Ukraine (and the US allegedly) blew that drone up on the Kremlin when they've invaded Ukraine and have spent over a year firing indiscriminate missiles into their cities.

    Farcical isn't it
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Has the long awaited spring offensive started and if so is Bakhmut a feint or the real deal?

    Surely the obviousl choice is to head for the coast ie Mariupol
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,280
    surrey_commuter said:

    Has the long awaited spring offensive started and if so is Bakhmut a feint or the real deal?

    Surely the obviousl choice is to head for the coast ie Mariupol

    Could well be, although as before the Ukrainians are keeping Ivan guessing. I would also have though that heading for the coast and cutting off the land bridge across Southern Ukraine to Crimea would be the way to go.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2023
    surrey_commuter said:

    Has the long awaited spring offensive started and if so is Bakhmut a feint or the real deal?

    Surely the obviousl choice is to head for the coast ie Mariupol

    I read it works on two levels. Either it forces the Russians to commit troops to it that would otherwise use to defend other areas, or it hands Ukraine a political and morale boosting victory.
    _
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    Has the long awaited spring offensive started and if so is Bakhmut a feint or the real deal?

    Surely the obviousl choice is to head for the coast ie Mariupol

    Could well be, although as before the Ukrainians are keeping Ivan guessing. I would also have though that heading for the coast and cutting off the land bridge across Southern Ukraine to Crimea would be the way to go.
    We all think this. Hence the Russkis have heavily fortified this area with tank trenches and all sorts.

    But hopefully they’re such a shit show, it is easily overrun.

    Fingers crossed.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,255
    Chances are if there is a strategy that we have thought of then the military bods will have already planned for it.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    pblakeney said:

    Chances are if there is a strategy that we have thought of then the military bods will have already planned for it.

    You'd hope so.
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    Chances are if there is a strategy that we have thought of then the military bods will have already planned for it.

    You'd hope so.
    I think he means the Russian military bods - so let's hope not
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2023
    So Ukranians have a specific problem which is they have pretty limited supply of shells for artillery up against an opponent who favours mass.

    Seems they’ve basically solved the problem with using an absolute tonne of drones to make the shelling ultra accurate.



    Artillery is 12x more efficient on average with the drone us apparently.
    _
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    There is a shell that is $100k a go? I knew war is expensive but blimey. Makes me curious as to what makes it so special.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    I think it's like a guided shell.
    _
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,645
    rick_chasey said:

    I think it's like a guided shell.


    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    verylonglegs said:

    There is a shell that is $100k a go? I knew war is expensive but blimey. Makes me curious as to what makes it so special.

    We can't be far off the scenario in Catch 22 when you pay the other side to bomb thir own airfield because it is cheaper
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    edited May 2023
    rick_chasey said:

    I think it's like a guided shell.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M982_Excalibur

    GPS guided - you just need one and it's game over for the target. They're devastatingly accurate.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    I have a feeling we're about to see a rapid acceleration of longer range weapons to Ukraine now. I reckon they've realised that Putin isn't going to do anything nuclear in response - he's probably got other more pressing issues to worry about at home.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    thegreatdivide said:

    I have a feeling we're about to see a rapid acceleration of longer range weapons to Ukraine now. I reckon they've realised that Putin isn't going to do anything nuclear in response - he's probably got other more pressing issues to worry about at home.

    Have read some stuff that the combo of NATO intelligence and the longer range missiles is ideal for knocking out the high level commanders on the reg.
    _
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Could be, but I suspect the pre offensive priority targets will remain enemy logistics - fuel and ammo dumps, then add in bridges and airfields etc. Russian supply dumps have been moved out of HIMARS range. A toasted commander will be an added bonus for sure though!
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    is it me or has the lack of Russian air superiority never been properly explained?

    Surely Russia have gone all out to achieve this and have failed miserably. We get told extensively about Himars but what is keeping the planes out of the skies?
  • bobbygloss
    bobbygloss Posts: 317
    thegreatdivide said:

    rick_chasey said:

    I think it's like a guided shell.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M982_Excalibur

    GPS guided - you just need one and it's game over for the target. They're devastatingly accurate.
    That thing is insane! I have no clue about weapons development but to hit within 4m of a moving target after 25km, just gliding? And they have versions that can autonomously select targets.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    surrey_commuter said:

    is it me or has the lack of Russian air superiority never been properly explained?

    Surely Russia have gone all out to achieve this and have failed miserably. We get told extensively about Himars but what is keeping the planes out of the skies?

    It seems that Russia never took SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defence) seriously during the Cold War and beyond, and now they’ve totally lost the momentum in Ukraine with the arrival of more and more NATO anti-aircraft weapons. NATO took SEAD very seriously thanks to Vietnam – basically it’s seeking out and destroying surface to air missiles and their radar using things like High Speed Anti Radar (HARM) missiles via - in the US Air Force’s case – Wild Weasel squadrons (motto “You Gotta Be Shittin Me”). They make Top Gun pilots look sad.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Enemy_Air_Defenses

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,280
    Presumably Ukraine should now be able to take out the Kerch bridge again when they need to. And do it properly this time.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,210
    Stevo_666 said:

    Presumably Ukraine should now be able to take out the Kerch bridge again when they need to. And do it properly this time.

    I was thinking axactly the same. No need for the drone boats now...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    thegreatdivide said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    is it me or has the lack of Russian air superiority never been properly explained?

    Surely Russia have gone all out to achieve this and have failed miserably. We get told extensively about Himars but what is keeping the planes out of the skies?

    It seems that Russia never took SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defence) seriously during the Cold War and beyond, and now they’ve totally lost the momentum in Ukraine with the arrival of more and more NATO anti-aircraft weapons. NATO took SEAD very seriously thanks to Vietnam – basically it’s seeking out and destroying surface to air missiles and their radar using things like High Speed Anti Radar (HARM) missiles via - in the US Air Force’s case – Wild Weasel squadrons (motto “You Gotta Be Shittin Me”). They make Top Gun pilots look sad.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Enemy_Air_Defenses

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel
    Maybe I am being stupid, but wasn't this doctrine as far back as WW2?
    _
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    rick_chasey said:



    Maybe I am being stupid, but wasn't this doctrine as far back as WW2?

    Not really. It was primitive back then - explains it all in the Wiki link.

  • MidlandsGrimpeur2
    MidlandsGrimpeur2 Posts: 2,092
    There is a shell that is $100k a go? I knew war is expensive but blimey


    I used to work with a guy who was a former Major in the BA. I remember him telling me about some tank shells that were £30k a pop! If I remember correctly, there was a story about a training exercise which was supposed to use blank rounds. There was some massive balls up and they ended up using the expensive live rounds. I think they had got off about 7 or 8 shells before someone realised what had happened!

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