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  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    My money is still on NATO handing over old F-16s down the line.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    thegreatdivide said:

    My money is still on NATO handing over old F-16s down the line.

    Pretty sure Holland has already promised their old F16s if NATO agree they can send them over? All 10 of them or whatever it is.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,280
    edited February 2023
    rick_chasey said:

    thegreatdivide said:

    My money is still on NATO handing over old F-16s down the line.

    Pretty sure Holland has already promised their old F16s if NATO agree they can send them over? All 10 of them or whatever it is.
    It may be that quite a few countries (especially the smaller ones) cannot spare many planes, but if enough countries do the same then it will all add up, clearly.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Norway and Holland have plenty to spare (and probably Denmark too). Some are in the US and some are in Europe. I think Holland was recently trying to flog 28 of their aircraft to Draken International - the largest non military air force in the world - after the company bought 12 from Norway.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,460
    thegreatdivide said:

    Pross said:

    Slightly surprised the UK is saying jets aren’t off the table, have we got any spare? I thought we were struggling to manage our own defence needs. What would they be, would it be the Typhoon or do will still have Tornadoes in storage?

    I used to see fast jets training regularly in these parts but this has made me realise I haven’t seen one in years and can’t recall seeing a Typhoon around here. I assume that is due to the changes around rules of low flying.

    The RAF has more than enough front line aircraft in service at the moment regardless of what the tabloids post.

    The 'Tranche 1' Typhoons are being retired (many have been retired already, and some have been scrapped) and the Hawk T1 has also been retired (March 2022). There are also a number of Tornado GR1 frames in storage too after being retired a few years ago. So there are options. However of the three the most likely is the Hawk T1 which can easily be turned into an attack aircraft, and compared to the Typhoon it's a lot easier to fly. It was the UK's primary trainer for decades.

    Where are you in the UK Pross? These days training takes place in Wales, the Lakes, East Anglia and up here in Scotland, but a huge amount of it now takes place over the North Sea.
    Surprised Typhoons are already being retired / scrapped. It doesn't feel like long since they were first brought into service. I've never thought of the Hawk as an attack aircraft.

    I'm based in South East Wales, I used to regularly see Tornadoes and Harriers around the Black Mountains and Beacons but all I see these days are Hercs or the occasional Globemaster. I did have a Typhoon fly over my car travelling up the A470 towards North Wales last year though, it was down really low and follwoing the road up the valley.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    The Dolgellau / Machynlleth 'Mach Loop' is still very popular with the Americans in their F-15E and F-35, I see them on the trackers heading there every week. The RAF fast jet pilots were banned from using it for going too low (LOL) but Hawk T2, A400 and C-130s still get to use it - mostly the USAF Special Ops C-130s as you'll see from this spectacular video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D-tJnO_4uA

  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Tanks for the memories

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/09/europe/1000-russian-tanks-destroyed-ukraine-war-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

    Latest updated list of losses:

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    edited February 2023
    thegreatdivide said:

    The Dolgellau / Machynlleth 'Mach Loop' is still very popular with the Americans in their F-15E and F-35, I see them on the trackers heading there every week. The RAF fast jet pilots were banned from using it for going too low (LOL) but Hawk T2, A400 and C-130s still get to use it - mostly the USAF Special Ops C-130s as you'll see from this spectacular video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D-tJnO_4uA

    I know somebody who ued to fly the mach loop and he would get photos emailed from the anoraks. The next day he would tilt the plane so they got a better shot.

    This is a true story and is marked on RAF maps
    https://www.targeta.co.uk/wheretogo.htm
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,460
    thegreatdivide said:

    The Dolgellau / Machynlleth 'Mach Loop' is still very popular with the Americans in their F-15E and F-35, I see them on the trackers heading there every week. The RAF fast jet pilots were banned from using it for going too low (LOL) but Hawk T2, A400 and C-130s still get to use it - mostly the USAF Special Ops C-130s as you'll see from this spectacular video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D-tJnO_4uA

    Thinking about it it was a Hawk followed by a C130 that went over my head on that drive. That was a bit further south from memory, probably closer to Carno on the A470 but it looks like that is one of the approach routes.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Interesting...ish article here

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64859780

    Wagner saying Moscow isn't providing ammo to hold the front line - clearly playing politics.

    More importantly - is this a potential lifeline for Ukraine? Doesn't feel like 2023 has been good for them.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Yeah, it really does seem like the Russians are using him.
    shirley_basso said:

    More importantly - is this a potential lifeline for Ukraine? Doesn't feel like 2023 has been good for them.

    I wouldn't read too much into what's happening in Donetsk i.e. nothing, apart from Wagner and the Russians being thrown into the Bakhmut grinder. Any new offensives in the country have been near enough repelled by the AFU (so far) - Vuhledar for example has resulted in a truly spectacular loss of Russian armoured vehicles.

    I note that Ukraine is starting to impose tougher reporting restrictions - the last time that happened was prior to retaking Kherson. A large number of new US bridging equipment has been moved up which is always a sign.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    thegreatdivide said:

    Yeah, it really does seem like the Russians are using him.

    shirley_basso said:

    More importantly - is this a potential lifeline for Ukraine? Doesn't feel like 2023 has been good for them.

    I wouldn't read too much into what's happening in Donetsk i.e. nothing, apart from Wagner and the Russians being thrown into the Bakhmut grinder. Any new offensives in the country have been near enough repelled by the AFU (so far) - Vuhledar for example has resulted in a truly spectacular loss of Russian armoured vehicles.

    I note that Ukraine is starting to impose tougher reporting restrictions - the last time that happened was prior to retaking Kherson. A large number of new US bridging equipment has been moved up which is always a sign.

    Last time they did well to disguise half of their offence with decent success.

    Their appetite for munitions is an order or two of magnitude more than can be produced by the sounds of it which I have read is a worry.
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,214
    thegreatdivide said:

    Yeah, it really does seem like the Russians are using him.

    shirley_basso said:

    More importantly - is this a potential lifeline for Ukraine? Doesn't feel like 2023 has been good for them.

    I wouldn't read too much into what's happening in Donetsk i.e. nothing, apart from Wagner and the Russians being thrown into the Bakhmut grinder. Any new offensives in the country have been near enough repelled by the AFU (so far) - Vuhledar for example has resulted in a truly spectacular loss of Russian armoured vehicles.

    I note that Ukraine is starting to impose tougher reporting restrictions - the last time that happened was prior to retaking Kherson. A large number of new US bridging equipment has been moved up which is always a sign.


    Yes, though I'm not following it closely, I get the feeling that Ukraine is biding its time, dragging out Bakhmut as long as it can, holding ground elsewhere, but not (generally) looking to vulnerable to surprises. Media in Russia sounding less confident.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,087
    shirley_basso said:

    Interesting...ish article here

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64859780

    Wagner saying Moscow isn't providing ammo to hold the front line - clearly playing politics.

    More importantly - is this a potential lifeline for Ukraine? Doesn't feel like 2023 has been good for them.

    Yes I don't follow Russian politics really but he's supposed to have political ambitions isn't he - can't do any harm to blame Moscow should military success not be forthcoming.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,094
    Poland to send at least four MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine
    https://news.sky.com/story/poland-to-send-at-least-four-russian-made-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-12835338
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Just the beginning I reckon.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,094
    thegreatdivide said:

    Just the beginning I reckon.

    It does concern me we're moving ever closer to complete insanity.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,214
    briantrumpet said:

    thegreatdivide said:

    Yeah, it really does seem like the Russians are using him.

    shirley_basso said:

    More importantly - is this a potential lifeline for Ukraine? Doesn't feel like 2023 has been good for them.

    I wouldn't read too much into what's happening in Donetsk i.e. nothing, apart from Wagner and the Russians being thrown into the Bakhmut grinder. Any new offensives in the country have been near enough repelled by the AFU (so far) - Vuhledar for example has resulted in a truly spectacular loss of Russian armoured vehicles.

    I note that Ukraine is starting to impose tougher reporting restrictions - the last time that happened was prior to retaking Kherson. A large number of new US bridging equipment has been moved up which is always a sign.


    Yes, though I'm not following it closely, I get the feeling that Ukraine is biding its time, dragging out Bakhmut as long as it can, holding ground elsewhere, but not (generally) looking to vulnerable to surprises. Media in Russia sounding less confident.

    I hate people who quote their own posts on Twitter, but in this case I will, here, as this seems to be coming to pass, and it makes the Ukrainians' stubborn resistance not seem as futile as at first thought.

    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,460
    Made the mistake of reading the comments. Predictably it looks like the Russian’s have their trolls replying.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Russia is grinding to a halt

  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    It also looks like Slovakia are about to give Ukraine a bunch of Mig29s as well.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,322
    i see he's back to minicabbing...



    ...keeps ending up in the wrong country though
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Gone to find up some more kids to abduct.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,280
    Pity they couldn't have dropped a few HIMARS on the bastard. Although apparently its just out of range.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,107
    Swanning around Mariupol.
    Pity a bad*ss Klitschko couldn’t just grab him and bundle him into the back of van and post him off to the Hague.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    I see this morning's MoD briefing has pointed out that a huge chunk (they say thousands) of Wagner six month prisoner contracts are about to end. This will result in an influx of absolute mentalists going home to Russia and, since Wagner can't get any more criminals, their effectiveness will be down the pan. Excellent news.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    thegreatdivide said:

    I see this morning's MoD briefing has pointed out that a huge chunk (they say thousands) of Wagner six month prisoner contracts are about to end. This will result in an influx of absolute mentalists going home to Russia and, since Wagner can't get any more criminals, their effectiveness will be down the pan. Excellent news.

    How accurate do you think the 7-1 ratio is for the battle in Bakhmut?
    _
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    I guess only Ukraine knows that, but I'm sure the ratio is very high.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    thegreatdivide said:

    I see this morning's MoD briefing has pointed out that a huge chunk (they say thousands) of Wagner six month prisoner contracts are about to end. This will result in an influx of absolute mentalists going home to Russia and, since Wagner can't get any more criminals, their effectiveness will be down the pan. Excellent news.

    Presume it's not out of the question for Wagner to reneg on this deal?
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    shirley_basso said:

    Presume it's not out of the question for Wagner to reneg on this deal?

    Only time will tell.



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