Poo tin... Put@in...
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Or just a very low GDPDorset_Boy said:
Worried about Turkey who lay claim to a lot of the Greek islands?Pross said:Interesting that Greece is the second highest on the list by GDP
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...and too much tax evasion by wealthy Greeks.Pross said:
Or just a very low GDPDorset_Boy said:
Worried about Turkey who lay claim to a lot of the Greek islands?Pross said:Interesting that Greece is the second highest on the list by GDP
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
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Going to be painful in the short term, but isn't the west going to figure out a plan b that effectively permanently cripples the Russian economy (by permanently, I mean in my lifetime) because Russia can't be trusted?0
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Does anyone seriously think Putin is concerned by share prices?pinno said:From the FT:
A load of facts
The only outcome of this that will change anything is open revolt in Russia or assassination.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Can’t quite get over the timing of the defence strategy where the UK basically abandons its capabilities in conventional state v state warfare.0
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Russians really are close to Kyiv already - currently fighting around Dymer which is 20km or so away from the outskirts.0
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Do you honestly think Russia is going to invade the UK at any point? Even further down the line it’ll never happen. I’d be way more concerned about cyber warfare and sub sea tampering of comms infrastructure.rick_chasey said:Can’t quite get over the timing of the defence strategy where the UK basically abandons its capabilities in conventional state v state warfare.
Also, this invasion is going to severely knacker Russia’s armed forces. It’ll take a long time for them to get back to where they were pre kick off and any ability to start a fresh assault on countries like Estonia and Lithuania. Even more so with economic impact on the way. You need a sh1t load of spares to keep your jets and helicopters in the air.
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After bravely choosing to not use an unused pipeline, Germany seem to have blocked taking action on swift payments.0
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I am a believer in deterrence.thegreatdivide said:
Do you honestly think Russia is going to invade the UK at any point? Even further down the line it’ll never happen. I’d be way more concerned about cyber warfare and sub sea tampering of comms infrastructure.rick_chasey said:Can’t quite get over the timing of the defence strategy where the UK basically abandons its capabilities in conventional state v state warfare.
Also, this invasion is going to severely knacker Russia’s armed forces. It’ll take a long time for them to get back to where they were pre kick off and any ability to start a fresh assault on countries like Estonia and Lithuania. Even more so with economic impact on the way. You need a censored load of spares to keep your jets and helicopters in the air.
It doesn’t need to be a Uk invasion for the UK to be heavily involved in conventional state v stage warfare. Poland will suffice or any other NATO member.
I also believe if rumours are true that ruskies plan on large scale human rights abuses - massacres (and that is a big if) etc, west will end up getting involved.
Also not convinced Putin will necessarily stop at Ukraine, but here’s hoping.
We’re in the “don’t believe anything your hear” phase but the Americans have been remarkably accurate on this and so when Biden says Putin plans to restore the Soviet Union you have to wonder.
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SWIFT seems very small fry surely. I appreciate its a anti-EU hobby horse.TheBigBean said:After bravely choosing to not use an unused pipeline, Germany seem to have blocked taking action on swift payments.
Italians are also worried about their handbags, Belgians diamonds, and the UK its lawyers and financiers
Sberbank being locked out the US correspondent banking network is several orders of magnitude bigger. That was a big US flex - not sure it has happened before.
Germans should be more preoccupied with tooling up.0 -
Ukraine seems keen on swift sanctions.rick_chasey said:
SWIFT seems very small fry surely. I appreciate its a anti-EU hobby horse.TheBigBean said:After bravely choosing to not use an unused pipeline, Germany seem to have blocked taking action on swift payments.
Italians are also worried about their handbags, Belgians diamonds, and the UK its lawyers and financiers
Sberbank being locked out the US correspondent banking network is several orders of magnitude bigger. That was a big US flex - not sure it has happened before.
Germans should be more preoccupied with tooling up.
Yes Italy and Belgium objected as well. The UK and US supported the action as did much of the EU.
Still, that unused pipeline is not being used which will have Putin worried.0 -
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Putin has been preparing this for years and knew sanctions were coming.TheBigBean said:
Ukraine seems keen on swift sanctions.rick_chasey said:
SWIFT seems very small fry surely. I appreciate its a anti-EU hobby horse.TheBigBean said:After bravely choosing to not use an unused pipeline, Germany seem to have blocked taking action on swift payments.
Italians are also worried about their handbags, Belgians diamonds, and the UK its lawyers and financiers
Sberbank being locked out the US correspondent banking network is several orders of magnitude bigger. That was a big US flex - not sure it has happened before.
Germans should be more preoccupied with tooling up.
Yes Italy and Belgium objected as well. The UK and US supported the action as did much of the EU.
Still, that unused pipeline is not being used which will have Putin worried.
He invaded anyway. He is prepared to go to war. Sanctions don't bother him.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The options are basically do whatever you can do get rid of Putin and anyone close to him who thinks the same (not many by the looks of it) and/or fight the Russians.
West hasn’t got its head around the latter but if the Russians carry on the evil empire bit they will.
My worry is there is no good logic for Russia to do this so the logic of Putin stopping with just Ukraine is not a given.0 -
Today's argument is that there is no point in trying any sanctions because they are pointless anyway?
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No but you were inferring it was about affecting Putin, specifically,TheBigBean said:Today's argument is that there is no point in trying any sanctions because they are pointless anyway?
Still, that unused pipeline is not being used which will have Putin worried.
None of this will have Putin worried so let’s put that to bed.
Still need sanctions to persuade those around him to remove him. That is apparently what he is most worried about.0 -
I guess you need to look at who's been posting on here a lot.pangolin said:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
Relax Stevo, Nice way to scratch the itch of discussing it without cheesing people off in real life who don’t want to.
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You need to read that again.rick_chasey said:
No but you were inferring it was about affecting Putin, specifically,TheBigBean said:Today's argument is that there is no point in trying any sanctions because they are pointless anyway?
Still, that unused pipeline is not being used which will have Putin worried.
None of this will have Putin worried so let’s put that to bed.
Still need sanctions to persuade those around him to remove him. That is apparently what he is most worried about.
Sanctions->affect Putin's supporters->worries Putin0 -
I think MI6 tweeting about their own brilliance is quite interesting. Presumably there is more than meeets the eye.0
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Yes.pinno said:
That was in the second part of my post. Putin doesn’t care.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Don't forget that countries are lighting up their buildings blue and yellow in solidarity and Biden sent his prayers so all is good. There has even been strongly worded Tweets which is the 21st century equivalent of a nuclear strike.TheBigBean said:
Ukraine seems keen on swift sanctions.rick_chasey said:
SWIFT seems very small fry surely. I appreciate its a anti-EU hobby horse.TheBigBean said:After bravely choosing to not use an unused pipeline, Germany seem to have blocked taking action on swift payments.
Italians are also worried about their handbags, Belgians diamonds, and the UK its lawyers and financiers
Sberbank being locked out the US correspondent banking network is several orders of magnitude bigger. That was a big US flex - not sure it has happened before.
Germans should be more preoccupied with tooling up.
Yes Italy and Belgium objected as well. The UK and US supported the action as did much of the EU.
Still, that unused pipeline is not being used which will have Putin worried.0 -
No. The sanctions are not hard enough or quick enough.TheBigBean said:Today's argument is that there is no point in trying any sanctions because they are pointless anyway?
Also need to make it clear that military action will be an option. US seems to be but nobody else.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
You mock but you wanna send UK troops over?Pross said:
Don't forget that countries are lighting up their buildings blue and yellow in solidarity and Biden sent his prayers so all is good. There has even been strongly worded Tweets which is the 21st century equivalent of a nuclear strike.TheBigBean said:
Ukraine seems keen on swift sanctions.rick_chasey said:
SWIFT seems very small fry surely. I appreciate its a anti-EU hobby horse.TheBigBean said:After bravely choosing to not use an unused pipeline, Germany seem to have blocked taking action on swift payments.
Italians are also worried about their handbags, Belgians diamonds, and the UK its lawyers and financiers
Sberbank being locked out the US correspondent banking network is several orders of magnitude bigger. That was a big US flex - not sure it has happened before.
Germans should be more preoccupied with tooling up.
Yes Italy and Belgium objected as well. The UK and US supported the action as did much of the EU.
Still, that unused pipeline is not being used which will have Putin worried.
West generally hasn't got its head around the situation yet; it's not always straightforward switching quickly into a new paradigm where the issues are of several orders of magnitude more important then you've been handling your entire career.
I believe the West will get there but it's not gonna get there overnight. You would think that attitudes will harden as the reality sets in and more people get their head around the new paradigm.
I still think the UN is finished after this. Russia is chairing the security committee - it's a different world now and it will take governments to get their head around the new world.
We're all in shock about this - it's not been since since WW2 in Europe - and that was pretty f*cking awful, and that applies to governments too. The dust will settle eventually and we'll hopefully come around to a response.
Problem is, ultimately it involves credible deterrents which you will have to be prepared to use, and that's awful for a lot of reasons.0 -
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Given the current response I think it's equally likely that harsh enough sanctions could bother Putin, but he believes that the probability of them being put in place is not high enough to worry about.pblakeney said:
Putin has been preparing this for years and knew sanctions were coming.TheBigBean said:
Ukraine seems keen on swift sanctions.rick_chasey said:
SWIFT seems very small fry surely. I appreciate its a anti-EU hobby horse.TheBigBean said:After bravely choosing to not use an unused pipeline, Germany seem to have blocked taking action on swift payments.
Italians are also worried about their handbags, Belgians diamonds, and the UK its lawyers and financiers
Sberbank being locked out the US correspondent banking network is several orders of magnitude bigger. That was a big US flex - not sure it has happened before.
Germans should be more preoccupied with tooling up.
Yes Italy and Belgium objected as well. The UK and US supported the action as did much of the EU.
Still, that unused pipeline is not being used which will have Putin worried.
He invaded anyway. He is prepared to go to war. Sanctions don't bother him.
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