Poo tin... Put@in...

focuszing723

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI

The poor bloke looks petrified.

kingstonian

focuszing723 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI

The poor bloke looks petrified.

Blimey. Don’t blame him, he wouldn’t want to incur Putin’s wrath.

rick_chasey

Worth noting the vast majority of Tory party funding comes from Russian oligarchs, some of who are currently under international sanctions.

If the money they receive comes from offshore why would we expect the party to look at it?

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

Worth noting the vast majority of Tory party funding comes from Russian oligarchs, some of who are currently under international sanctions.

If the money they receive comes from offshore why would we expect the party to look at it?

Vast majority?

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Worth noting the vast majority of Tory party funding comes from Russian oligarchs, some of who are currently under international sanctions.

If the money they receive comes from offshore why would we expect the party to look at it?

Vast majority?

According to Private Eye, yes. They've been running stories on it since the Cameron days.

Majority as in, they're big big donators.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Worth noting the vast majority of Tory party funding comes from Russian oligarchs, some of who are currently under international sanctions.

If the money they receive comes from offshore why would we expect the party to look at it?

Vast majority?

According to Private Eye, yes. They've been running stories on it since the Cameron days.

Majority as in, they're big big donators.

Well, "majority" has a rather detailed and prolonged mathematical definition of "more than half".

Even if its quite a lot it is probably still a bit of an issue, I grant you.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Worth noting the vast majority of Tory party funding comes from Russian oligarchs, some of who are currently under international sanctions.

If the money they receive comes from offshore why would we expect the party to look at it?

Vast majority?

According to Private Eye, yes. They've been running stories on it since the Cameron days.

Majority as in, they're big big donators.

Well, "majority" has a rather detailed and prolonged mathematical definition of "more than half".

Even if its quite a lot it is probably still a bit of an issue, I grant you.

Ok more than half of the moneys they receive are from Ruskin oligarchs.

Comprende?

shirley_basso

Monies

rick_chasey

Emone.

I guess the UK picked a good time to do that strategic review where they moved away from conventional warfare and focused on insurgency....

rjsterry

The inability of anyone in government to describe what has already happened as an invasion is somewhat at odds with the Churchill/Thatcher cosplay a few days ago.

Pross

Now a full scale invasion apparently. Not good.

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

focuszing723 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.


For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.

Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?

2

Which means they haven't really done anything.

I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.

Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.

Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.

There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.

I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.

You think the nukes are going to come out?

Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

NATO isn't being attacked. It's just another proxy war.

This proxy war is being played out fairly realistically.

Dorset_Boy

Sounds like land forces coupled with cyber attacks too.

pblakeney

I can hear Putin now.
“You don’t frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called ‘Prime Minister,’ you and all your silly English sanctions.”

briantrumpet

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

Worth noting the vast majority of Tory party funding comes from Russian oligarchs, some of who are currently under international sanctions.

If the money they receive comes from offshore why would we expect the party to look at it?

Vast majority?

According to Private Eye, yes. They've been running stories on it since the Cameron days.

Majority as in, they're big big donators.

Are you a subscriber now?

TheBigBean

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

focuszing723 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.


For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.

Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?

2

Which means they haven't really done anything.

I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.

Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.

Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.

There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.

I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.

You think the nukes are going to come out?

Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

NATO isn't being attacked. It's just another proxy war.

This proxy war is being played out fairly realistically.

A proxy war involves war.

surrey_commuter

The interesting thing about sanctions is for them to be effective you need to inflict pain upon yourself.
I toes not look like we are prepared to do that

Dorset_Boy

surrey_commuter said:

The interesting thing about sanctions is for them to be effective you need to inflict pain upon yourself.
I toes not look like we are prepared to do that

Maybe wait until later on today and see if that still holds true.

Will Germany and the EU be willing to shut down Nord Stream 1?
Is the UK, US and EU prepared to freeze all Russian owned assets?
Will the emergency G7 actually impose anything meaningful?

A dark day.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/lloydslisted/status/1496764337549189121?s=21

pblakeney

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

focuszing723 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.


For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.

Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?

2

Which means they haven't really done anything.

I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.

Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.

Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.

There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.

I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.

You think the nukes are going to come out?

Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

NATO isn't being attacked. It's just another proxy war.

This proxy war is being played out fairly realistically.

A proxy war involves war.

Ah. That's okay then.
For now...

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

The interesting thing about sanctions is for them to be effective you need to inflict pain upon yourself.
I toes not look like we are prepared to do that

Cheaper than sending your own lads to be shot at.

I’ve said it before but it’s all very well people saying Russia needs to be stopped etc, and I’ve said that too, but it’s not gonna be my neck on the line to do it.

surrey_commuter

Dorset_Boy said:

surrey_commuter said:

The interesting thing about sanctions is for them to be effective you need to inflict pain upon yourself.
I toes not look like we are prepared to do that

Maybe wait until later on today and see if that still holds true.

Will Germany and the EU be willing to shut down Nord Stream 1?
Is the UK, US and EU prepared to freeze all Russian owned assets?
Will the emergency G7 actually impose anything meaningful?

A dark day.

By “we” I was referring to the UK.

We are doing the absolute bare minimum so can’t see any meaningful change to that

surrey_commuter

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

focuszing723 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.


For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.

Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?

2

Which means they haven't really done anything.

I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.

Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.

Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.

There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.

I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.

You think the nukes are going to come out?

Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

NATO isn't being attacked. It's just another proxy war.

This proxy war is being played out fairly realistically.

A proxy war not war by other means, it is war by other people

pblakeney

surrey_commuter said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

TheBigBean said:

focuszing723 said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

focuszing723 said:

Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.


For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.

Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?

2

Which means they haven't really done anything.

I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.

Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.

Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.

There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.

I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.

You think the nukes are going to come out?

Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

NATO isn't being attacked. It's just another proxy war.

This proxy war is being played out fairly realistically.

A proxy war not war by other means, it is war by other people

That's as maybe for now. I fear we are being drawn in, however reluctantly.
That it is stupid and illogical and unthinkable hasn't stopped wars before.

Oh, and I doubt Putin is stopping at Ukraine. Doing (relatively) nothing now will simply embolden him.

rick_chasey

The worry is the bit that Putin is beginning to lose sense of reality and is both increasingly isolated and is consolidation power even more through a reign of terror.

If that continues then you're not dealing with a rationale actor. It's already irrational to be launching a full scale invasion of Ukraine, but to move on elsewhere would be really awful.

I do think the move from Belarus to a full blown puppet is not to be underestimated too. It and Ukraine are both on the border of Poland, which historically Russia has not recognised as sovereign either...

rick_chasey

You also wonder if this is the end for the UN in its current form.

Russia is currently chairing the security council.

TheBigBean

Could be the end of Putin.

First.Aspect

China holds the key to how long this goes on.

I don't see that as a good thing.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

China holds the key to how long this goes on.

I don't see that as a good thing.

In what sense do they hold the keys?

I get they’re a global superpower and ally yadayada but in practice what keys do they hold and what leverage do they really have?

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

Could be the end of Putin.

Ben Wallace seems to think so, but then he was also making inane comments about the Scots Guards beating the Tsar's troops in 1853 as if that was somehow comparable.