Poo tin... Put@in...
Comments
-
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...0 -
john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
Do you know what MF does for a living?0 -
Talks himself up?briantrumpet said:john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
Do you know what MF does for a living?0 -
Professional Hunt saboteur?briantrumpet said:john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
Do you know what MF does for a living?0 -
There was a chap on the Beeb news tonight saying Ukraine has seemingly got a three week window to tool up, get into position and beat the absolute sh1te out of Russia when they try and break in from the East. It’s full gas to get them the kit they need, and the US and UK will be working on intelligence, no doubt via the SIGINT flights (Signals Intelligence) from the almost 24/7 flights of RC-135s from the RAF/USAF and the U-2s from Fairford. The latter have been sitting at 80k ft, out of harms way sucking up masses of data.
I really hope they can do this.0 -
These lads are doing a brilliant job.
0 -
Tinker?mrb123 said:
Professional Hunt saboteur?briantrumpet said:john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
Do you know what MF does for a living?0 -
Not to mention completely impractical. Type conversion would take at least three months, probably more.DeVlaeminck said:pblakeney said:
My guesstimate is that we would have to use our pilots which is where the escalation comes in.DeVlaeminck said:...
It's not immediately clear why sending missiles is not declaring war yet supplying fighter planes would be seen as too much of an escalation...
Ok I admit I was talking about Poland sending those Migs !
Agree us sending pilots to fly the things would be another step up the ladder.0 -
No, tailor...First.Aspect said:
Tinker?mrb123 said:
Professional Hunt saboteur?briantrumpet said:john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
Do you know what MF does for a living?
0 -
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Ok let's start now and in 3 months they can have them.imposter2.0 said:
Not to mention completely impractical. Type conversion would take at least three months, probably more.DeVlaeminck said:pblakeney said:
My guesstimate is that we would have to use our pilots which is where the escalation comes in.DeVlaeminck said:...
It's not immediately clear why sending missiles is not declaring war yet supplying fighter planes would be seen as too much of an escalation...
Ok I admit I was talking about Poland sending those Migs !
Agree us sending pilots to fly the things would be another step up the ladder.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...1 -
UK still covering themselves in glory on the refugee front. People who have been accepted into Ireland can't make the final step to stay with family in the UK unable to provide paperwork required by our system.1
-
thankyou Pross - this exactly.Pross said:
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
if you think that "we" - collective for any country tbh - should send men snd women to kill, be killed snd injured - then you should be the first to be knocking on the recruitment office door.
here's the link John - give 'em a bell and you'll be off the Phase 1 before you know it.
https://www.army.mod.uk/careers/
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
Bono crashing into the Kremlin in his private jet.Pross said:
I'm not against Bono and the boys flying around in a war zone in their private jet, could be dangerous. They need to avoid singing though or they'll be off to The Hague for trial.ddraver said:U2s spying on Europe must make Putin feel very at home...
Its a beautiful day......The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
2 -
Soldier? Surely I'm getting warmer...First.Aspect said:
No, tailor...First.Aspect said:
Tinker?mrb123 said:
Professional Hunt saboteur?briantrumpet said:john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
Do you know what MF does for a living?0 -
First.Aspect said:
Soldier? Surely I'm getting warmer...First.Aspect said:
No, tailor...First.Aspect said:
Tinker?mrb123 said:
Professional Hunt saboteur?briantrumpet said:john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
Do you know what MF does for a living?
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
“We” should be bloodygrateful that there are people willing to do exactly this on our behalf and be thankful that we’re not in the position where we have to.MattFalle said:
thankyou Pross - this exactly.Pross said:
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
if you think that "we" - collective for any country tbh - should send men snd women to kill, be killed snd injured - then you should be the first to be knocking on the recruitment office door.
here's the link John - give 'em a bell and you'll be off the Phase 1 before you know it.
https://www.army.mod.uk/careers/
0 -
well stop harping on about sending people to do stuff you won't/wouldn't do because you're too scared.johngti said:
“We” should be bloodygrateful that there are people willing to do exactly this on our behalf and be thankful that we’re not in the position where we have to.MattFalle said:
thankyou Pross - this exactly.Pross said:
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
if you think that "we" - collective for any country tbh - should send men snd women to kill, be killed snd injured - then you should be the first to be knocking on the recruitment office door.
here's the link John - give 'em a bell and you'll be off the Phase 1 before you know it.
https://www.army.mod.uk/careers/
money where mouth is.
the minute you sign up, you can talk like you do.
EDIT: This is not for John G - my error in misreading poster..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
Methinks you've got your Johns mixed up.MattFalle said:
well stop harping on about sending people to do stuff you won't/wouldn't do because you're too scared.johngti said:
“We” should be bloodygrateful that there are people willing to do exactly this on our behalf and be thankful that we’re not in the position where we have to.MattFalle said:
thankyou Pross - this exactly.Pross said:
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
if you think that "we" - collective for any country tbh - should send men snd women to kill, be killed snd injured - then you should be the first to be knocking on the recruitment office door.
here's the link John - give 'em a bell and you'll be off the Phase 1 before you know it.
https://www.army.mod.uk/careers/
money where mouth is.
the minute you sign up, you can talk like you do.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
methinks you are entirely correct - thonkyou for pointing out.-pblakeney said:
Methinks you've got your Johns mixed up.MattFalle said:
well stop harping on about sending people to do stuff you won't/wouldn't do because you're too scared.johngti said:
“We” should be bloodygrateful that there are people willing to do exactly this on our behalf and be thankful that we’re not in the position where we have to.MattFalle said:
thankyou Pross - this exactly.Pross said:
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
if you think that "we" - collective for any country tbh - should send men snd women to kill, be killed snd injured - then you should be the first to be knocking on the recruitment office door.
here's the link John - give 'em a bell and you'll be off the Phase 1 before you know it.
https://www.army.mod.uk/careers/
money where mouth is.
the minute you sign up, you can talk like you do.
Sorry John G - obvs aimed at the other John..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
1 -
No problemoMattFalle said:
methinks you are entirely correct - thonkyou for pointing out.-pblakeney said:
Methinks you've got your Johns mixed up.MattFalle said:
well stop harping on about sending people to do stuff you won't/wouldn't do because you're too scared.johngti said:
“We” should be bloodygrateful that there are people willing to do exactly this on our behalf and be thankful that we’re not in the position where we have to.MattFalle said:
thankyou Pross - this exactly.Pross said:
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
if you think that "we" - collective for any country tbh - should send men snd women to kill, be killed snd injured - then you should be the first to be knocking on the recruitment office door.
here's the link John - give 'em a bell and you'll be off the Phase 1 before you know it.
https://www.army.mod.uk/careers/
money where mouth is.
the minute you sign up, you can talk like you do.
Sorry John G - obvs aimed at the other John.0 -
Too many Johns...0
-
No problemoMattFalle said:
methinks you are entirely correct - thonkyou for pointing out.-pblakeney said:
Methinks you've got your Johns mixed up.MattFalle said:
well stop harping on about sending people to do stuff you won't/wouldn't do because you're too scared.johngti said:
“We” should be bloodygrateful that there are people willing to do exactly this on our behalf and be thankful that we’re not in the position where we have to.MattFalle said:
thankyou Pross - this exactly.Pross said:
No, I think it was only those who think we should "go in" against the Russians directly he was saying should be prepared to stand up and be counted.john80 said:
Matt has it covered it would appear. You are all going in the trenches.briantrumpet said:john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...
if you think that "we" - collective for any country tbh - should send men snd women to kill, be killed snd injured - then you should be the first to be knocking on the recruitment office door.
here's the link John - give 'em a bell and you'll be off the Phase 1 before you know it.
https://www.army.mod.uk/careers/
money where mouth is.
the minute you sign up, you can talk like you do.
Sorry John G - obvs aimed at the other John.
Agree completely 🤣imposter2.0 said:Too many Johns...
1 -
Pross said:
UK still covering themselves in glory on the refugee front. People who have been accepted into Ireland can't make the final step to stay with family in the UK unable to provide paperwork required by our system.
Bit confused.......why do refugees going to Ireland need to go to the UK first?
Before someone leaps on me for this question, I’m not for one second saying the UK approach is acceptable at all. Just wondering why a refugee family can’t be directly transported to their final destination ASAP so they can begin to receive the care and attention they often need and definitely deserve, and begin to rebuild their lives.0 -
there is a Pritti good explanation for this.kingstonian said:Pross said:UK still covering themselves in glory on the refugee front. People who have been accepted into Ireland can't make the final step to stay with family in the UK unable to provide paperwork required by our system.
Bit confused.......why do refugees going to Ireland need to go to the UK first?
Before someone leaps on me for this question, I’m not for one second saying the UK approach is acceptable at all. Just wondering why a refugee family can’t be directly transported to their final destination ASAP so they can begin to receive the care and attention they often need and definitely deserve, and begin to rebuild their lives.2 -
darkhairedlord said:
there is a Pritti good explanation for this.kingstonian said:Pross said:UK still covering themselves in glory on the refugee front. People who have been accepted into Ireland can't make the final step to stay with family in the UK unable to provide paperwork required by our system.
Bit confused.......why do refugees going to Ireland need to go to the UK first?
Before someone leaps on me for this question, I’m not for one second saying the UK approach is acceptable at all. Just wondering why a refugee family can’t be directly transported to their final destination ASAP so they can begin to receive the care and attention they often need and definitely deserve, and begin to rebuild their lives.
Eh? That doesn’t answer the question at all.0 -
They've successfully got to Ireland but can't get into the UK to live with their family.kingstonian said:Pross said:UK still covering themselves in glory on the refugee front. People who have been accepted into Ireland can't make the final step to stay with family in the UK unable to provide paperwork required by our system.
Bit confused.......why do refugees going to Ireland need to go to the UK first?
Before someone leaps on me for this question, I’m not for one second saying the UK approach is acceptable at all. Just wondering why a refugee family can’t be directly transported to their final destination ASAP so they can begin to receive the care and attention they often need and definitely deserve, and begin to rebuild their lives.
I guess they chose Dublin over Calais as a holding point.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0
