Poo tin... Put@in...
Comments
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I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.0 -
seriously?john80 said:
I don't get why attacking their troops is an act of war if they are outside Russia. This is where the west has messed up. How many countries do they have to go into before it is acceptable? Can we invade France then get all upset when the rest of Europe actively fights against us on French soil only. Seems proportionate to me.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
you can't understand why?
seriously?
fuckme..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon..The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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There's a sliding scale between doing nothing and nuking Moscow. Directly attacking Russian troops in Ukraine does seem to be quite a way along that continuum and you can see how it might easily escalate - Russia bombs the airfields in Poland to stop the planes attacking their troops and suddenly we have an attack on NATO territory.
"The West" has chosen economic sanctions and supplying arms - but not supplying planes and tanks. Listening to that Zelensky interview linked earlier his wish list is topped by both.
It's not immediately clear why sending missiles is not declaring war yet supplying fighter planes would be seen as too much of an escalation - I do think we are at the stage where we (by which I mean ideally the rest of the world) should take that risk and supply more - why not (other than the cost) planes and tanks. I'm not suggesting letting the planes operate from NATO airfields but if Ukraine can operate and maintain them itself we should give them them.
[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.0 -
I do kind of agree with John on some of this but it would have been a bad gamble to get wrong!0
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Russian doctrine would “allow” Putin to use a tactical battlefield nuke if Russian forces were being that badly overwhelmed. And once that can of worms opens there’s no closing it.john80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
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nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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My guesstimate is that we would have to use our pilots which is where the escalation comes in.DeVlaeminck said:...
It's not immediately clear why sending missiles is not declaring war yet supplying fighter planes would be seen as too much of an escalation...The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Would the international community offer some more warm words for Ukraine to ease the pain. We seem to have been promoting a rules based international order but when the rules are broken it seems there was no rules after all. Usually rules have consequences but hey ho.johngti said:
Russian doctrine would “allow” Putin to use a tactical battlefield nuke if Russian forces were being that badly overwhelmed. And once that can of worms opens there’s no closing it.john80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.0 -
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
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.0
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where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
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on his 'phone?rick_chasey said:How is he tweeting from prison?
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
rick_chasey said:
How is he tweeting from prison?
I believe all of his social media posting is done via his legal team..0 -
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?0 -
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?0 -
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
.The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
Quite a stat on BBC news there: a billion Euros in military aid given to Ukraine by the EU since the start of the war...the same amount they're paying to Russia every day for oil and gas.0
-
I think the US is 1 1/2 billion USD alone with another $100 million of tank exploderers going across as we speak..
The camera down the willy isn't anything like as bad as it sounds.
0 -
What the hell is wrong with the Irish MEPs could not make this up!
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-irish-mep-blames-nato-for-crisisSo Far!0 -
I was thinking if other planets have wars n $h1t? If they don't have wars and $h1t, then that $h1t would be super fly.
I wonder if other planets have birds?
If this $h1t seems stupid, then you can all fv-ck right off because wars are stupid.
There are good people in the World (I would say the vast majority), who just make the best of it and get on with $h1t, so why do we kowtow to the $h1t ones?
Sorry for swearing, but this $h1t is real, so that's just the way the $h1t's got to be.
Thanks for listening.
0 -
Reading, or whatever.0
-
Yeah, I suppose you weren't really listening, you were probably reading.0
-
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.0 -
john80 said:
When we went into Iraq did we need to send general members of the public in with an AK-47? What I love about your argument is that it is simply the same old trope. Do we really have to go back to the dark ages to fight a war and all get in the trenches.MattFalle said:
i'll be going when my boss says i go. its how it works.john80 said:
After you lend your considerable skills. Without you we are lost.MattFalle said:
they need engineers across there now - when are you heading out?john80 said:
I am an engineer so I would probably be in a factory trying to make weapons. Maybe we should just turn a blind eye and not buy Russian stuff that will sort it right out. Good news is we are already staging demos at oil refineries in case we substitute some of that Russian oil and gas we buy with our own.MattFalle said:
where it is now.john80 said:
In a year's time th atrocities will still be rolling in and where will your fence be.MattFalle said:
nojohn80 said:
If you take a time machine back and the international community said if you cross the border we will wipe out your troops. How much or equipment would you have had to kill before Putin returned. I recon you would not have destroyed 14000 troops and large parts of Ukraine would not have been decimated. What would Putin have done. Sold a nuclear strike with his generals on the basis he lost some military on foreign soil when he was advised of th consequences. Launched multiple attacks on other countries opening up the obvious response of direct air strikes on Moscow. He thinks we are toothless and quite frankly he is probably right.MattFalle said:
you want to go and start a war with Russia yet want to minimise human harm and suffering?john80 said:
I care about minimising human harm and suffering. I am not sure that essentially a no man's land to the east of Ukraine achieves this. As for who would be fighting the next world war assuming it does not go immediately nuclear it will be based around as many high tech long range missiles for countries like the UK and nods on the ground for those surrounding Russia by necessity. If the west pulled all its arms how long do you think Russia would have working equipment and troops on foreign soil.MattFalle said:
John doesn't care about who is doing the fighting so long as its not him, tbh.surrey_commuter said:
what you are talking about is declaring war on Russia. As the West is not an entity that can declare war then who exactly do you think should be enforcing this no-fly zone and declaring war on Russia?john80 said:I think in hindsight the collective mistake the West has made is not enforcing a no fly zone and stating some basic red lines for Russia. Some of these could have been things such as you have a week to leave Ukraine post no fly zone enforcement. After that any military assets you have in Ukraine are fair game and here is a map. The international community is in broad agreement that this is an illegal war and a breach of Ukraines sovereignty. This leads to the logical conclusion that if this is allowed to happen then what is the point in international organisations other than for some very well paid jobs talking nonsense. Was Putin really going to be stupid enough to launch attacks outside Ukraine in response. Was he really going to be stupid enough to launch a nuclear war. I don't think China and his other mates would be so keen on supporting that. The Chinese might have a problem maintaining control in a nuclear winter given they are already losing support for their zero covid strategy two years in.
We are so scared of poking a bear we instead let him in the tent and are not bargaining with him with our left over lunch box. I wonder when we are going to run out of food.
Russia should be kicked off international institutions. What are they going to do about it. Start another one with South Korea and Belarus.
he'll be going on about the blitz spirit and how "we" beat hitler soon.
We now are in the tragic situation of providing arms only for a long drawn out conflict where untold suffering will be brought to Ukranians who did not ask for this. I get that it is a time machine but the idea we could not have done more misses the above solution.
no no no no no no no no.
you are taking thepiss now, yah?
please?
so you going across to join the international legion or are you fighting from your keyboard,,?
so i presume thats a no from you?
good, good. noted.
Are we adding modern war tactics to your list of areas of expertise? Just like to keep the list current...0 -
pblakeney said:
My guesstimate is that we would have to use our pilots which is where the escalation comes in.DeVlaeminck said:...
It's not immediately clear why sending missiles is not declaring war yet supplying fighter planes would be seen as too much of an escalation...
Ok I admit I was talking about Poland sending those Migs !
Agree us sending pilots to fly the things would be another step up the ladder.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
