Poo tin... Put@in...
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Yesterday, I watched a group of Ukrainian Women on the news practising with wooden knives in combat. They were smiling and joking and I'm sure it's a bit media driven. It does bring it home though.
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So limited incursion 'to protect Russian citizens' followed by a withdrawal as a face saving measure?0
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No withdrawalPross said:So limited incursion 'to protect Russian citizens' followed by a withdrawal as a face saving measure?
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It's incredible how big Russia is, let alone the size of the USSR was.
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Had they before last night though in this particular skirmish? Perhaps your quote is missing a "now" at the start.rick_chasey said:Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, said that Russia had “broken international law”
*facepalm*0 -
It's more the Brit gov't also broke international law but that didn't matter, according to this gov't.Dorset_Boy said:
Had they before last night though in this particular skirmish? Perhaps your quote is missing a "now" at the start.rick_chasey said:Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, said that Russia had “broken international law”
*facepalm*
The Russians love nothing more than Western hypocrisy.0 -
Well that is true, I don't think invading another country is really comparable. There does seem to be a lot of dancing around calling it an invasion.rick_chasey said:
It's more the Brit gov't also broke international law but that didn't matter, according to this gov't.Dorset_Boy said:
Had they before last night though in this particular skirmish? Perhaps your quote is missing a "now" at the start.rick_chasey said:Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, said that Russia had “broken international law”
*facepalm*
The Russians love nothing more than Western hypocrisy.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So would you rather he said nothing?rick_chasey said:
It's more the Brit gov't also broke international law but that didn't matter, according to this gov't.Dorset_Boy said:
Had they before last night though in this particular skirmish? Perhaps your quote is missing a "now" at the start.rick_chasey said:Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, said that Russia had “broken international law”
*facepalm*
The Russians love nothing more than Western hypocrisy.0 -
It's more I'd rather the international law bit hadn't been broken so explicitly previously, as it makes statements like this rather meaningless.Dorset_Boy said:
So would you rather he said nothing?rick_chasey said:
It's more the Brit gov't also broke international law but that didn't matter, according to this gov't.Dorset_Boy said:
Had they before last night though in this particular skirmish? Perhaps your quote is missing a "now" at the start.rick_chasey said:Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, said that Russia had “broken international law”
*facepalm*
The Russians love nothing more than Western hypocrisy.
It was for things like this that I was so against the UK breaking international law to begin with.
You lose authority when it comes to wanting the world to operate according to a rule based system if you want to break the rules that don't suit your short term interest.1 -
I think it would be better not to use the phrase international law at all.
Perhaps call it a "so called" peace keeping mission if you're desperate to avoid calling it an invasion.
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Putin pretty conclusively said it wasn't anything to do with NATO expansion yesterday. He just wants to be emperor of an expanded Russian empire.0
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So Germany has cut of Nordstream II. Now the UK ought to follow suit and move on its offshore financial centres.0
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Announcement @ 12:30.rick_chasey said:So Germany has cut of Nordstream II. Now the UK ought to follow suit and move on its offshore financial centres.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Rick called me stupid at 7:32.0
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Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
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Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.0 -
2TheBigBean said:
Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.0 -
NATO, Dad's involved, see!0
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I guess this means inflation will even more on the rise now.
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Which means they haven't really done anything.rick_chasey said:
2TheBigBean said:
Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.0 -
I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.TheBigBean said:
Which means they haven't really done anything.rick_chasey said:
2TheBigBean said:
Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.0 -
Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.focuszing723 said:
I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.TheBigBean said:
Which means they haven't really done anything.rick_chasey said:
2TheBigBean said:
Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.0 -
Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.focuszing723 said:
I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.TheBigBean said:
Which means they haven't really done anything.rick_chasey said:
2TheBigBean said:
Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.pblakeney said:
Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.focuszing723 said:
I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.TheBigBean said:
Which means they haven't really done anything.rick_chasey said:
2TheBigBean said:
Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.0 -
I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.TheBigBean said:
There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.pblakeney said:
Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.TheBigBean said:
Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.focuszing723 said:
I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.TheBigBean said:
Which means they haven't really done anything.rick_chasey said:
2TheBigBean said:
Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?rick_chasey said:
Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable.focuszing723 said:Rick called me stupid at 7:32.
For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
focuszing723 said:
They are sat on mineral resources though, look at Germany's reaction to recent events? Our military planes had to fly around Germany to get to the Ukraine.ugo.santalucia said:focuszing723 said:
China for one, aren't going to do that. They actually support Russia in terms of the Ukraine not joining NATO.ugo.santalucia said:How feasible is it to isolate Russia completely and let them cook in their own stock? I mean everything... no flights in and out of Moscow, no transactions, nobody buy their oil and gas, if somebody does, ends up with the same sanctions, foreign assets seized, Russian citizen expelled... basically set them up for starvation and a new revolution, which seems to be the only way things get to change there?
If this was possible, my feeling is that Putin would get poisoned within months
They do, but even China will realise that Russia's status is only due to a large army and nuclear deterrent. Economically, they are nobody... if you starve them, they won't be able to pay their troops... the regime would be short lived. I don't think China would risk taking the side of a loser and seeing their manufacturing empire eroded.
This is Putin's last chance... in 10 years time nobody will be interested in buying Russian or indeed Ukrainian gas... so it's now or never. He needs to be economically squashed, come what may... if we have to endure a winter with restrictions on the use of gas, then so be it, price worth paying to get rid of him.
China accounts for 15.4% of Russia's total crude oil exports, with only Saudi Arabia selling it more. China's Russian crude oil buying averaged 1.59 million barrels per day (bpd) last year, or 15.5% of its total imports. read morehttps://www.reuters.com/business/energy/asian-buyers-russian-oil-gas-coal-2022-02-22/
China receives about 40% of this via the 4,070-km (2,540-mile) East Siberia Pacific Ocean (ESPO) pipeline.
Russia is also China's No. 3 gas supplier. China accounted for 6.7% of Russian natural gas exports in 2021. Russian exports to China totalled 16.5 billion cubic metres (bcm), or about 12.07 million tonnes in 2021, meeting roughly 5% of China's demand.
Russia was also China's No. 2 coal supplier in 2021. China imported 15.25 million tonnes, or 4.72% of its total coal imports, from Russia in 2021, customs data showed.
I Guess that could be ranked up at bit too. Long term though China are going very heavy on nuclear power.0
