Poo tin... Put@in...

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  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    focuszing723 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

    Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable. :)


    For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
    Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?
    2
    Which means they haven't really done anything.
    I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.
    Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.
    Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.
    There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.
    I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.
    You think the nukes are going to come out?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    focuszing723 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

    Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable. :)


    For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
    Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?
    2
    Which means they haven't really done anything.
    I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.
    Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.
    Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.
    There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.
    I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.
    You think the nukes are going to come out?
    Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
    I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
  • thedirector135
    thedirector135 Posts: 142
    e phinks ez 'arry Brown e duz.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    edited February 2022
    kingstongraham said:

    from twitter

    You can almost hear him thinking "How do I get out of this alive?"
    "Ah, just agree."
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    focuszing723 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

    Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable. :)


    For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
    Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?
    2
    Which means they haven't really done anything.
    I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.
    Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.
    Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.
    There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.
    I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.
    You think the nukes are going to come out?
    Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
    I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

    NATO isn't being attacked. It's just another proxy war.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    focuszing723 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

    Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable. :)


    For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
    Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?
    2
    Which means they haven't really done anything.
    I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.
    Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.
    Not arguing against your point but there will be a difference between a Cold War and a real war. In fact, the Russians may well cut it.
    There won't be a real war - at most it will be a proxy war. Just like the cold war which is how it got its name.
    I hope you are correct, I fear you are wrong. Putin's reaction to sanctions will be to escalate, not de-escalate. We knew they were coming, so did he.
    You think the nukes are going to come out?
    Game's over if they do. We are about to find out whether NATO is toothless or not.
    I don't know what's worse, a toothless NATO and peace for us or NATO to show their use.

    NATO isn't being attacked. It's just another proxy war.
    No but Ukraine is.
    I wish I had your optimism.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    pblakeney said:

    kingstongraham said:

    from twitter

    You can almost hear him thinking "How do I get out of this alive?"
    "Ah, just agree."
    And even then he mistakenly approves of next week's strategy instead of today's.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,605
    TheBigBean said:

    focuszing723 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

    Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable. :)


    For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
    Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?
    2
    Which means they haven't really done anything.
    I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.
    Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.
    It seems sensible to put the sanctions at a level where they can be further ramped up does it not?

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    Jezyboy said:

    TheBigBean said:

    focuszing723 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

    Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable. :)


    For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
    Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?
    2
    Which means they haven't really done anything.
    I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.
    Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.
    It seems sensible to put the sanctions at a level where they can be further ramped up does it not?

    Sure, but Rick was selling it as a grand move by Germany putting to shame efforts by the UK.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2022
    TheBigBean said:

    Jezyboy said:

    TheBigBean said:

    focuszing723 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    Rick called me stupid at 7:32.

    Understand the difference between NATO and the EU and it won't be applicable. :)


    For all the British talk of the German's not willing to feel the pain of cutting Nordstream, Germans have taken the lead on doing so, and the Brits are working around the edges of their strategic exposure to Russian and Putin's cronies.
    Have they cut Nordstream or Nordstream 2?
    2
    Which means they haven't really done anything.
    I doubt they are building it for the hell of it though and it was enough to give Germany cold feet when things started to get dicey.
    Yes, but it is a long term project and not currently in use. Germany could change its mind in a few weeks and agree to use it. It has no real short term impact on anything. Whereas, say, not using Nordstream 1 would have an immediate impact, but that isn't likely as the gas flowed throughout the cold war.
    It seems sensible to put the sanctions at a level where they can be further ramped up does it not?

    Sure, but Rick was selling it as a grand move by Germany putting to shame efforts by the UK.
    Stand by it. It is a grand move. Russian response suggests it is too.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2022
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    They could start with sanctioning the people the Prime Minister says are already under sanction ?


    They could also seize their assets held in offshore UK financial centres, as they are almost certainly illegally got.
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    They could start with sanctioning the people the Prime Minister says are already under sanction ?


    They could also seize their assets held in offshore UK financial centres, as they are almost certainly illegally got.
    and then they could stop accepting donations

    what about BP will we be imposing sanctions on them or is that Putin's job
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    They could start with sanctioning the people the Prime Minister says are already under sanction ?


    They could also seize their assets held in offshore UK financial centres, as they are almost certainly illegally got.
    and then they could stop accepting donations

    what about BP will we be imposing sanctions on them or is that Putin's job
    Rather than just sanctioning Timmeschekno they could go the whole hog and blacklist Gunvor so no UK company could deal or work with them, which would make sense as it's an open secret it is a very high end money laundering exercise for a whole range of Putin cronies.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    It was a question. Was that an answer?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    It was a question. Was that an answer?
    I assumed it wasn't really a question. As it appears the three people in question were already sanctioned by the US, I don't think much will change; however, in general, putting sanctions on an individual causes a headache for anyone working with anything connected with that person e.g. En+ had to reduce Deripaska's shareholding. Meanwhile he has taken legal action against the sanctions which is no doubt a headache for someone especially if the government loses.


  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    It was a question. Was that an answer?
    I assumed it wasn't really a question. As it appears the three people in question were already sanctioned by the US, I don't think much will change; however, in general, putting sanctions on an individual causes a headache for anyone working with anything connected with that person e.g. En+ had to reduce Deripaska's shareholding. Meanwhile he has taken legal action against the sanctions which is no doubt a headache for someone especially if the government loses.


    It won't have any major knock on effects on any other part of the economy?
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    Most of their hundreds of million pound mega yachts were/are build in the Netherlands and Germany.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    edited February 2022
    focuszing723 said:

    Most of their hundreds of million pound mega yachts were/are build in the Netherlands and Germany.

    The Dutch and Germans will have already pocketed/laundered that little earner.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    It was a question. Was that an answer?
    I assumed it wasn't really a question. As it appears the three people in question were already sanctioned by the US, I don't think much will change; however, in general, putting sanctions on an individual causes a headache for anyone working with anything connected with that person e.g. En+ had to reduce Deripaska's shareholding. Meanwhile he has taken legal action against the sanctions which is no doubt a headache for someone especially if the government loses.


    It won't have any major knock on effects on any other part of the economy?
    Presumably depends who is sanctioned at what they do.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Obviously if Germany stops the flow of gas, that negatively affects pretty much all Europeans. Which is fine if that's the level that we want to go to. If the UK put sanctions on more than just 3 people, who would suffer except those being sanctioned?

    How many oligarchs are worth sanctioning? They didn't do that many before and it was considered to be reasonably successful.
    It was a question. Was that an answer?
    I assumed it wasn't really a question. As it appears the three people in question were already sanctioned by the US, I don't think much will change; however, in general, putting sanctions on an individual causes a headache for anyone working with anything connected with that person e.g. En+ had to reduce Deripaska's shareholding. Meanwhile he has taken legal action against the sanctions which is no doubt a headache for someone especially if the government loses.


    It won't have any major knock on effects on any other part of the economy?
    Presumably depends who is sanctioned at what they do.
    Is it bad to hope that Chelsea get banned?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    Yes. Yes I can imagine that.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-security-evgeny-lebedev-perugia-party
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    🤣🤣🤣
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    Regarding the decision by Germany to hold off licensing Nordstream 2, they were under a lot of US pressure to do so. So yes they’ve done the right thing, but it wasn’t without pressure.
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    Does anyone know what sanctions the 351 members of the Duma have had imposed on them by the EU? Wonder if they have real teeth or not.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    _

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