Nairo can't roll and is massively over rated, discuss..
Comments
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As usual, best to just ignore him...
Contador's clearly past his best and you don't need to have started a single grand tour to be able to see that, you just need eyes.
Shame really as he always makes races more exciting.0 -
Dorset Boy wrote:Pinno wrote:Is it me or has Contador ended up in a crash or two in the first week of a GT that has had significant effect more often than he should have? Is this because of a lack of control by his team?
He's put himself in poor situations - trying to eat on a 60 mph dark descent (before his miracle recovery to win the vuelta), the crashes in this year's Tour were him positioning himself badly, and the crash this week was him cutting the corner and being hit by a rider on his inside. All down to him....
Perhaps he knows he's past it and cant rely on the preparation he was able to use pre his cheating ban, and therefore just tries too hard and that results in him making mostakes.
He's won plenty since the ban.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Teeny complaining that to beat Froome he needs power meters to be banned
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintana-calls-for-power-meters-to-be-banned-from-racing0 -
kleinstroker wrote:Teeny complaining that to beat Froome he needs power meters to be banned
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintana-calls-for-power-meters-to-be-banned-from-racing
I can't understand the obsession with power meters and Froome's style, noting that he has different tactics to call on to suit the situation anyway.
Quintana says they make you ride cautiously! Well surely if that's a bad thing then he'll want Froome to carry on as is, or consider throwing his own in the bin.
Where does a ban come from?! It's like banning drafting, aero helmets, shaving legs, energy gel, getting water from support car, tyres of a certain width/pressure/manufacturer, clipless shoes... in terms of making no sense.0 -
jawooga wrote:
Quintana says they make you ride cautiously!
Ironic given Quintana's recent performances.0 -
At the Tour there was a lot of talk about how Quintana underperformed because of a mystery illness. Did anything ever come out about that, or was it just rubbish to try to play down his lack of attacking?
Relatively speaking he seems to be riding well in the Vuelta, although he wasn't taking a huge amount of time out of the likes of Scarponi and Froome is clearly on an end of season downward curve now.0 -
Interestingly this finish is where Froome won his first GT stage.0
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larkim wrote:What struck me yesterday was that Quintana was effectively beaten up the top section of the climb as the gap that he had at half way was greater than the gap he held over Froome at the end (I think he had about 45s over Froome at one point, and that became 25s by the line). To me that suggests he was fading (relative to Froome) in an environment where he should have been extending his margin. That's not to diminish the ride or the rider, but adds a little context.
There's no "free lunches" climbing those hills though. If Quintana went 45s faster than Froome in the first half then - assuming they're roughly equal physically and Froome only lost time due to riding slowly initially (ie no mechanical) - he will have had to pay a price in the second half. Having gone too hard too soon is way more important than whether the gradient was a degree of two more favourable to one rider or another.0 -
Joelsim wrote:Interestingly this finish is where Froome won his first GT stage.
I recall it well. Dodgy camera work suggested that Froome had pulled out a race winning margin only for Cobo to appear on his wheel just as the line approached!
Whatever happened to Cobo, one wonders.0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:Whatever happened to Cobo, one wonders.
After winning the 2011 Vuelta he signed a 2 year deal with Movistar where he acknowledges he failed to live up to expectations. He then signed for Torku Sekerspor (of Mustafa Sayer fame) for the 2014 season and then they dropped him when they moved to join the MPCC.0 -
Agreed, but in general terms on endurance activities (e.g. road racing, marathon running) there is something of acceptance that, all other things being equal, the ideal use of energy is to be "fully spent" on the line at the end rather than at some point before that. Hence the concept of even paced running or negative splits in endurance running. A decaying gap towards the finish line suggest that there was a slightly better use of energy which would have resulted in a slightly larger gap by the finish line. Not a precise science, of course, just my take on things. If it was a single day race, Quintana got it right as the objective is to be across the finish line first. But as it isn't the objective is to be as far in front as possible, and I think he might have compromised that ever so slightly unless the view is that the last couple of km on that route particularly benefited Froome's style vs Quintana's style.Wallace and Gromit wrote:larkim wrote:What struck me yesterday was that Quintana was effectively beaten up the top section of the climb as the gap that he had at half way was greater than the gap he held over Froome at the end (I think he had about 45s over Froome at one point, and that became 25s by the line). To me that suggests he was fading (relative to Froome) in an environment where he should have been extending his margin. That's not to diminish the ride or the rider, but adds a little context.
There's no "free lunches" climbing those hills though. If Quintana went 45s faster than Froome in the first half then - assuming they're roughly equal physically and Froome only lost time due to riding slowly initially (ie no mechanical) - he will have had to pay a price in the second half. Having gone too hard too soon is way more important than whether the gradient was a degree of two more favourable to one rider or another.2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
'Decaying gap'. Defined by Schleck on the Galibier?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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larkim wrote:
Agreed, but in general terms on endurance activities (e.g. road racing, marathon running) there is something of acceptance that, all other things being equal, the ideal use of energy is to be "fully spent" on the line at the end rather than at some point before that. Hence the concept of even paced running or negative splits in endurance running. A decaying gap towards the finish line suggest that there was a slightly better use of energy which would have resulted in a slightly larger gap by the finish line. Not a precise science, of course, just my take on things. If it was a single day race, Quintana got it right as the objective is to be across the finish line first. But as it isn't the objective is to be as far in front as possible, and I think he might have compromised that ever so slightly unless the view is that the last couple of km on that route particularly benefited Froome's style vs Quintana's style.Wallace and Gromit wrote:larkim wrote:What struck me yesterday was that Quintana was effectively beaten up the top section of the climb as the gap that he had at half way was greater than the gap he held over Froome at the end (I think he had about 45s over Froome at one point, and that became 25s by the line). To me that suggests he was fading (relative to Froome) in an environment where he should have been extending his margin. That's not to diminish the ride or the rider, but adds a little context.
There's no "free lunches" climbing those hills though. If Quintana went 45s faster than Froome in the first half then - assuming they're roughly equal physically and Froome only lost time due to riding slowly initially (ie no mechanical) - he will have had to pay a price in the second half. Having gone too hard too soon is way more important than whether the gradient was a degree of two more favourable to one rider or another.
I think we're saying the same thing aren't we? Quintana lost time in the second half because he'd gone harder than optimum in the first half whereas Froome rode an evenly distributed effort rather than the terrain in the second half favouring Froome.0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:Joelsim wrote:Interestingly this finish is where Froome won his first GT stage.
I recall it well. Dodgy camera work suggested that Froome had pulled out a race winning margin only for Cobo to appear on his wheel just as the line approached!
Whatever happened to Cobo, one wonders.
Last seen racing in 2014 for not-at-all-dodgy Torku Sekerspor0 -
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More or less, yes - but what I'm suggesting is that if we assume Froome executed things perfectly (big assumption) and therefore his finish time was the best possible one he could have achieved, Quintana's one being more "bursty" in nature was unlikely to have been the optimal finish time for him, and had he paced things better he could have taken more time out of Froome. Of course, what that doesn't take into account is emotional / psychological impact of burning off a rival / being burned off.Wallace and Gromit wrote:
I think we're saying the same thing aren't we? Quintana lost time in the second half because he'd gone harder than optimum in the first half whereas Froome rode an evenly distributed effort rather than the terrain in the second half favouring Froome.2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
larkim wrote:Of course, what that doesn't take into account is emotional / psychological impact of burning off a rival / being burned off.
hmmmm ..... I see a gap in the market for an emotional gadget ... got to be touch screen, have a k-edge mount, wifi, bt and Ant+ .. and be logable to Strava, so you can see your emotional score
Ha ha ..... I got a KOE (king of emotion) of 24 for that segment .... mind you someone would "cheat" and ride the same segment whilst watching "my girl" and score a 100+ whilst balling their eyes out0 -
I'm in, let me know when you get them on the market and I'll buy.2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
2011 Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc (son #4s)
2013 Decathlon Triban 3 (red) (mine)
2019 Hoy Bonaly 26" Disc (son #2s)
2018 Voodoo Bizango (mine)
2018 Voodoo Maji (wife's)0 -
Pross wrote:dennisn wrote:Dorset Boy wrote:Pinno wrote:Is it me or has Contador ended up in a crash or two in the first week of a GT that has had significant effect more often than he should have? Is this because of a lack of control by his team?
Perhaps he knows he's past it .......
"...past it..."? Hmmmm, I don't recall your name on the start list.
So, a top pro cannot be considered to be past their best by anyone who isn't themselves a pro? If George Foreman decided to make another comeback to the boxing ring would it be acceptable for any of us mortals to suggest he should maybe reconsider as he is past his best? You really are sanctimonious aren't you? This is an Internet forum i.e. somewhere for people to express an opinion. If you have an alternative view then state it rather than do your usual trick of attacking the comment.
No problem with opinions. We all have them. Just reminding everyone that we all have zero credibility when we say things like this. We aren't pros. Have never been pros. Never raced in a pro event. Don't personally know any pros. Aren't involved, in any way, with that kind of racing, other than watching. To top it off none of us has ever "walked a mile in their shoes".0 -
dennisn wrote:Pross wrote:dennisn wrote:Dorset Boy wrote:Pinno wrote:Is it me or has Contador ended up in a crash or two in the first week of a GT that has had significant effect more often than he should have? Is this because of a lack of control by his team?
Perhaps he knows he's past it .......
"...past it..."? Hmmmm, I don't recall your name on the start list.
So, a top pro cannot be considered to be past their best by anyone who isn't themselves a pro? If George Foreman decided to make another comeback to the boxing ring would it be acceptable for any of us mortals to suggest he should maybe reconsider as he is past his best? You really are sanctimonious aren't you? This is an Internet forum i.e. somewhere for people to express an opinion. If you have an alternative view then state it rather than do your usual trick of attacking the comment.
No problem with opinions. We all have them. Just reminding everyone that we all have zero credibility when we say things like this. We aren't pros. Have never been pros. Never raced in a pro event. Don't personally know any pros. Aren't involved, in any way, with that kind of racing, other than watching. To top it off none of us has ever "walked a mile in their shoes".
Well, no, as walking a mile in cleats would be silly.0 -
dennisn wrote:Pross wrote:dennisn wrote:Dorset Boy wrote:Pinno wrote:Is it me or has Contador ended up in a crash or two in the first week of a GT that has had significant effect more often than he should have? Is this because of a lack of control by his team?
Perhaps he knows he's past it .......
"...past it..."? Hmmmm, I don't recall your name on the start list.
So, a top pro cannot be considered to be past their best by anyone who isn't themselves a pro? If George Foreman decided to make another comeback to the boxing ring would it be acceptable for any of us mortals to suggest he should maybe reconsider as he is past his best? You really are sanctimonious aren't you? This is an Internet forum i.e. somewhere for people to express an opinion. If you have an alternative view then state it rather than do your usual trick of attacking the comment.
No problem with opinions. We all have them. Just reminding everyone that we all have zero credibility when we say things like this. We aren't pros. Have never been pros. Never raced in a pro event. Don't personally know any pros. Aren't involved, in any way, with that kind of racing, other than watching. To top it off none of us has ever "walked a mile in their shoes".
I assume you also ignore everything said by pundits who aren't ex-pros then?0 -
dennisn wrote:Pross wrote:dennisn wrote:Dorset Boy wrote:Pinno wrote:Is it me or has Contador ended up in a crash or two in the first week of a GT that has had significant effect more often than he should have? Is this because of a lack of control by his team?
Perhaps he knows he's past it .......
"...past it..."? Hmmmm, I don't recall your name on the start list.
So, a top pro cannot be considered to be past their best by anyone who isn't themselves a pro? If George Foreman decided to make another comeback to the boxing ring would it be acceptable for any of us mortals to suggest he should maybe reconsider as he is past his best? You really are sanctimonious aren't you? This is an Internet forum i.e. somewhere for people to express an opinion. If you have an alternative view then state it rather than do your usual trick of attacking the comment.
No problem with opinions. We all have them. Just reminding everyone that we all have zero credibility when we say things like this. We aren't pros. Have never been pros. Never raced in a pro event. Don't personally know any pros. Aren't involved, in any way, with that kind of racing, other than watching. To top it off none of us has ever "walked a mile in their shoes".
I've been watching pro cycling for longer than Contador has been alive. Also, people watching on TV have probably seen more of the top riders in action than most current pros.
I've never been in a pop group either, but I can have a valid opinion that Paul McCartney isn't as good as he used to be either.0 -
That's gold, Jerry!
(How long had you been saving that one?)
PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 20230 -
KingstonGraham wrote:dennisn wrote:Pross wrote:dennisn wrote:Dorset Boy wrote:Pinno wrote:Is it me or has Contador ended up in a crash or two in the first week of a GT that has had significant effect more often than he should have? Is this because of a lack of control by his team?
Perhaps he knows he's past it .......
"...past it..."? Hmmmm, I don't recall your name on the start list.
So, a top pro cannot be considered to be past their best by anyone who isn't themselves a pro? If George Foreman decided to make another comeback to the boxing ring would it be acceptable for any of us mortals to suggest he should maybe reconsider as he is past his best? You really are sanctimonious aren't you? This is an Internet forum i.e. somewhere for people to express an opinion. If you have an alternative view then state it rather than do your usual trick of attacking the comment.
No problem with opinions. We all have them. Just reminding everyone that we all have zero credibility when we say things like this. We aren't pros. Have never been pros. Never raced in a pro event. Don't personally know any pros. Aren't involved, in any way, with that kind of racing, other than watching. To top it off none of us has ever "walked a mile in their shoes".
I've been watching pro cycling for longer than Contador has been alive. Also, people watching on TV have probably seen more of the top riders in action than most current pros.
I've never been in a pop group either, but I can have a valid opinion that Paul McCartney isn't as good as he used to be either.
And he was always far worse than Lennon.0 -
dennisn wrote:No problem with opinions. We all have them. Just reminding everyone that we all have zero credibility when we say things like this. We aren't pros. Have never been pros. Never raced in a pro event. Don't personally know any pros. Aren't involved, in any way, with that kind of racing, other than watching. To top it off none of us has ever "walked a mile in their shoes".
How can you be sure that this opinion is valid? I can state for certainty you are wrong on one count in my case and I suspect many others (maybe even more than one count for some contributors).
Also, I wouldn't need to be an orthopaedic surgeon to diagnose a broken bone if I saw one end of it sticking out of my skin or a rocket scientist to realise something serious went wrong with the Challenger space shuttle.0 -
Pross wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:dennisn wrote:Pross wrote:dennisn wrote:Dorset Boy wrote:Pinno wrote:Is it me or has Contador ended up in a crash or two in the first week of a GT that has had significant effect more often than he should have? Is this because of a lack of control by his team?
Perhaps he knows he's past it .......
"...past it..."? Hmmmm, I don't recall your name on the start list.
So, a top pro cannot be considered to be past their best by anyone who isn't themselves a pro? If George Foreman decided to make another comeback to the boxing ring would it be acceptable for any of us mortals to suggest he should maybe reconsider as he is past his best? You really are sanctimonious aren't you? This is an Internet forum i.e. somewhere for people to express an opinion. If you have an alternative view then state it rather than do your usual trick of attacking the comment.
No problem with opinions. We all have them. Just reminding everyone that we all have zero credibility when we say things like this. We aren't pros. Have never been pros. Never raced in a pro event. Don't personally know any pros. Aren't involved, in any way, with that kind of racing, other than watching. To top it off none of us has ever "walked a mile in their shoes".
I've been watching pro cycling for longer than Contador has been alive. Also, people watching on TV have probably seen more of the top riders in action than most current pros.
I've never been in a pop group either, but I can have a valid opinion that Paul McCartney isn't as good as he used to be either.
And he was always far worse than Lennon.
It would be my opinion that he's doing better now, though.0 -
I dunno, I prefer everything Lennon has released in the last 36 years than anything McCartney has released0
