Nairo can't roll and is massively over rated, discuss..

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  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    Milton50 wrote:
    It is odd how such a small, south american climber doesn't seem to have much of a kick.

    The mountain TT in the 2014 Giro was, what, 25km at a relatively smooth 8%? He was happy as larry chugging his way up that.
    As Cosmo said in his HTRWW "these boots were made for riding up mountains" :lol:

    Will be interesting to see how he does on the upcoming TT, if he loses more time to Froome there then you'd have to think it's all over for him this year barring a Sky collapse. If he isn't in good enough shape to make a fight of it in the TT I can't see him doing much on a summit finish either.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,264
    There'a not been much in the way of uphill finishes yet - the shallow Arcalis into a headwind and the shortened (twice) Ventoux.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RideOnTime
    RideOnTime Posts: 4,712
    RichN95 wrote:
    There'a not been much in the way of uphill finishes yet - the shallow Arcalis into a headwind and the shortened (twice) Ventoux.

    montventouxsummit.jpg
  • salsiccia1
    salsiccia1 Posts: 3,725
    Just putting it out there, but I think having Valverde around is bad for Quintana. Valverde only ever really rides for Valverde, and I think Movistar is still his team when he's riding, whatever they're told by the DS. Nairo should insist next year on having another domestique and not someone who he can never fully trust or rely on.

    I rate Quintana, he's obviously not as strong as Froome, but I think he's got a Tour win in him.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Friebe has chipped in a couple of good points on this:

    1- Spending so much time living and training at high (2800m+) altitude, makes it very difficult to train in an explosive way

    2 - he is basically a chugger anyway so isn't going to make those massive kicks people are expecting - his 1 day record is nothing to write home about (but then neither is Froome's)

    It does seem he needs to race a bit more and take a few more risks.

    PS - I think this is only his 3rd TDF ('13,'15, '16).
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,448
    I like Quintana, but I don't think he has the nous nor the hunger for success that Froome does. Froome has shown in more than just this Tour that he will attack for every second, Quintana's plan seems to be to follow Froome for 2 1/2 weeks then attack in the Alps - except by that stage Froome has managed to put 3 minutes on him every time.

    As already said, other young riders are improving fast too and it isn't going to get any easier to win a Tour over the next few years.
  • squired
    squired Posts: 1,153
    It could be worse, he could be TJ....

    I really wonder whether he has the wrong management. Movistar is a strange team. They keep putting two people in breaks on mountain stages, who then get dropped and come nowhere on the stage, but don't act as a bridge for an attack either. In a more astute team I reckon he would be more effective. Having said that, I do wonder whether he has secretly been unwell or something like that, or just got his training wrong this year.

    A number of young riders are making big strides at the moment and Nairo could easily get lost in the shuffle. Having said that, look at Aru - the guy has looked great in other Grand Tours, yet sits behind the earlier mentioned TJ right now. How many of these young guys are strong in time trials though? So many of them seem to be more the pure climber type.
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    I think the real problem Quintana has is that whilst on his day he can be a very good climber, he just doesn't have that steely determination to be a team leader. He comes across as just too nice a guy. Even though nominally he's supposed to be the team leader of Movistar he just doesn't look like it and if you didn't know any better you would think Valverde was the No.1 in the team (and he probably still thinks he is too).

    I would imagine he just doesn't inspire people in the team to work for him the way Froome or Contador etc. can.
  • josame
    josame Posts: 1,162
    We need a Sastre (a la 08) performance on the Finhaut-Emosson, but I just can't see it - and I know there was no froomie opposition then, I kno, I kno, I kno :(
    'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Quintana needs to learn to roll like Putin.

    f0b.gif
    Correlation is not causation.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    squired wrote:
    It could be worse, he could be TJ....

    Ooo burn. Well played. :P
    Correlation is not causation.
  • yourpaceormine
    yourpaceormine Posts: 1,245
    Nairo is a fantastic climber when on top form. He just doesn't shine on anything but long steep stuff. He is inattentive, or his team is inattentive, on flat windy days. Plus his TTing isn't top drawer. Put all that together and you get a rider who will win steep uppy loaded grand tours, but won't win more mixed courses. La Vuelta certaintly, or if the course is right then the Giro, but not Le Tour. Of course if the stars align, as they did in 2012 for Sir Whinging of Wigan, then he is in with a shout.

    All this assumes that he is riding on a team which supports him, and Señor Hairplugs isn't.
  • yourpaceormine
    yourpaceormine Posts: 1,245
    Above The Cows wrote:
    Quintana needs to learn to roll like Putin.

    f0b.gif

    Best use of a Ritz biscuit ever.


    In the interests of balance and fair play other savoury 1970s buffet biscuits are available.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,731
    He came in under cooked, like last year. Problem is, having to work so hard in the consecutive crosswinds stages, it's backfired and he was over cooked on Ventoux.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • argyllflyer
    argyllflyer Posts: 893
    YorkshireRaw wrote:
    2 - he is basically a chugger anyway so isn't going to make those massive kicks people are expecting - his 1 day record is nothing to write home about (but then neither is Froome's)

    Bearing in mind he will not be winning any sprint outside of a post-tour crit, I think CF could win Lombardy *if* he arrived at it in a fully fit state, parcours depending. Getting to October in such a physical condition doesn't happen though as it is well after his peak. LBL is the other biggie that could suit him, though he will IMO always be beaten by someone when it flattens out at the top. Again, is he going to be in condition to be competitive in such a grueling race (it's fast if not exciting)?

    Back on Nairo, the Giro he does have was heavily influenced by that stage 16 neutralised/not neutralised pickpocket of Uran on the descent off the Stelvio. His winning margin over the mullet by the end of the entire Giro was 2m58s. The Colombian Basso gained 4m11s on Uran on that controversial stage alone.
  • frisbee
    frisbee Posts: 691
    He needs to attack and put Frome under pressure, its as simple as that. I don't think he's prepared to risk loosing by risking the win.
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    Everybody keeps saying Quintana needs to attack but if he hasn't got the legs how can he? It's like saying that Ferrari just need to go faster to beat Mercedes in Formula 1.

    We'll see today no doubt but I've a feeling that it's a stage which will suit Froome and he will be looking to put it beyond all doubt.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,729
    Think I agree with everyone else, not overrated but needs to learn to take the race by the scruff of the throat more often and how to stop leaking time on non-mountain stages.

    I hope it never happens but one person he could really benefit from is Vino at Astana... :shock:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Richmond Racer 2
    Richmond Racer 2 Posts: 4,698
    ddraver wrote:
    Think I agree with everyone else, not overrated but needs to learn to take the race by the scruff of the throat more often and how to stop leaking time on non-mountain stages.

    I hope it never happens but one person he could really benefit from is Vino at Astana... :shock:



    Oh man, you've changed. I'll mirror you & say he could probably do with Riis...
  • specialgueststar
    specialgueststar Posts: 3,418
    ddraver wrote:
    Think I agree with everyone else,

    that is refreshing on a forum :)
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,697
    SpecialGuestStar wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Think I agree with everyone else,

    that is refreshing on a forum :)

    I agree with everyone except ddraver.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,729
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Think I agree with everyone else, not overrated but needs to learn to take the race by the scruff of the throat more often and how to stop leaking time on non-mountain stages.

    I hope it never happens but one person he could really benefit from is Vino at Astana... :shock:



    Oh man, you've changed. I'll mirror you & say he could probably do with Riis...

    Yeh Riis is a good call. Like them or loathe them, you have to grudgingly accept that Astana hae won the last 2 GTs with well thought out, attacking, aggressive tactics which we re pulled off perfectly...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,445
    ddraver wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Think I agree with everyone else, not overrated but needs to learn to take the race by the scruff of the throat more often and how to stop leaking time on non-mountain stages.

    I hope it never happens but one person he could really benefit from is Vino at Astana... :shock:



    Oh man, you've changed. I'll mirror you & say he could probably do with Riis...

    Yeh Riis is a good call. Like them or loathe them, you have to grudgingly accept that Astana hae won the last 2 GTs with well thought out, attacking, aggressive tactics which we re pulled off perfectly...

    Waiting for Kruijswijk to hit a snow bank and fall off was part of their master plan?
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Richmond Racer 2 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Think I agree with everyone else, not overrated but needs to learn to take the race by the scruff of the throat more often and how to stop leaking time on non-mountain stages.

    I hope it never happens but one person he could really benefit from is Vino at Astana... :shock:



    Oh man, you've changed. I'll mirror you & say he could probably do with Riis...

    Yeh Riis is a good call. Like them or loathe them, you have to grudgingly accept that Astana hae won the last 2 GTs with well thought out, attacking, aggressive tactics which we re pulled off perfectly...

    Waiting for Kruijswijk to hit a snow bank and fall off was part of their master plan?

    It's Vino we're talking about. He got the Kazakh army to build the snow bank.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,110
    I'm going to disagree with a couple of comments about Valverde not working for Quintana. Just in this race rather than previously I can't see what more Valverde could have done - he's been there with him as last man, he's put in a couple of softening up attacks, didn't he also go off with Contador (or was that someone else) which would have put pressure on Sky had Contador had legs, he was also there when Quintana got dropped on Ventoux wasn't he ? Short of pushing him up the climbs I'm not sure that Valverde could do much more. Whether he'd blow himself up riding on the front like a Sky domestique is hypothetical because there hasn't been a situation where that would benefit the team.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    Quintana's done absoluteluy nothing in this Tour yet he's still in fourth place on GC. Compare that with Adam Yates who has no teammates to help him yet is only one place ahead of him, just over 30 seconds in front. Weird.
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,620
    hypster wrote:
    Quintana's done absoluteluy nothing in this Tour yet he's still in fourth place on GC. Compare that with Adam Yates who has no teammates to help him yet is only one place ahead of him, just over 30 seconds in front. Weird.

    What's your point?
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,185
    ^that Yates' performance is all the more impressive.
  • itboffin
    itboffin Posts: 20,072
    I agree Yates is outstanding.

    Perhaps Nario should focus on races like TDP because he's no when near the level to be GC for the tour, as for tactics it seems like only sky has a plan everyone else just looks like they're looking for mistakes and failures.

    I'm not a froome fan but you have to hand it to him and sky they're bossing this tour
    Rule #5 // Harden The Feck Up.
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  • hypster
    hypster Posts: 1,229
    gsk82 wrote:
    hypster wrote:
    Quintana's done absoluteluy nothing in this Tour yet he's still in fourth place on GC. Compare that with Adam Yates who has no teammates to help him yet is only one place ahead of him, just over 30 seconds in front. Weird.

    What's your point?

    My point is that Quintana has almost been anonymous in this Tour with only two half-hearted attacks on the Ventoux which amounted to nothing and yet he is still well within striking distance of the podium. A bit like Nibali in the Giro and we know how that turned out. I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of it happening based on his performance so far but if he was suddenly rejuvinated on say Friday's mountaintop finish things could easily turn on their head. I'm not saying he would seriously challenge Froome but he's only one minute off Mollema's second place. Yes, it's likely he will lose more time in the TT tomorrow but it is a mountain TT so there could be some unexpected results. Mollema admitted having tired legs today and if that carries on tomorrow the GC could get a shake-up.

    Yates' by contrast has been much more visible and it has all been off his own bat. The weird thing is everyone goes on about Team Sky and all the support that Froome gets but Yates is up there basically on his own. I know if Froome really was isolated (as he has been in past Tours) he could probably do it unsupported but it makes you wonder how much difference having a strong team really makes. Where would Yates be if he was the leader of a team like Astana say?

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