TdF 2016 Stage 12 *Contains spoilers*
Comments
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RichN95 wrote:
Another difference is that road was completely blocked by the incident (same as with Yates's inflatable).BlueDynamo wrote:I hadn't picked up on this when reading the thread but I've read elsewhere that the reason Juan Antonio Flecha is so passionate about this is that he was on the end of a commissaries decision in 2011 while in a break when a car hit him and Jonny Hoogerland crashed into the barbed wire fence. He's claiming this is no different so why hasn't it been judged the same as his incident.
I can only think its due to the yellow jersey and the distance from the finish when compared to his incident.
A moto hitting you from behind and breaking a seat stay doesn't help either.0 -
In my opinion, this shows the sport of cyling at its very best and very worst at the same time. Up until that point it was a great stage, but it is unacceptable for the organisers to allow this sort of incident on what seems like a regular basis - it wasnt just a one off, unexpected incident - entirely predictable and entirely preventable. However the sport sorted out the problem in a way that probably no other sport would do today. Other sports have become so corporate and bound so tightly to rulebooks and with no expectation that the teams or competitors will act in a sporting way rather than just in their own interest.
That they had the freedom to find as fair a compromise to deal with it as this is to their credit. That the other teams are sporting enough to agree to the compromise is to everyone's credit. Bravo is what I say.
But they really must go away from today and come up with some way to reduce the risk of this type of thing, without limiting fan access in the way that Formula 1 does - finding the right balance may not be easy but they certainly dont have the right balance at the moment.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Another difference is that road was completely blocked by the incident (same as with Yates's inflatable).BlueDynamo wrote:I hadn't picked up on this when reading the thread but I've read elsewhere that the reason Juan Antonio Flecha is so passionate about this is that he was on the end of a commissaries decision in 2011 while in a break when a car hit him and Jonny Hoogerland crashed into the barbed wire fence. He's claiming this is no different so why hasn't it been judged the same as his incident.
I can only think its due to the yellow jersey and the distance from the finish when compared to his incident.
Flecha is right - there's not much precedent for it. I can see why he sees it like that.
Difference is the colour jersey Flecha was wearing.0 -
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apreading wrote:In my opinion, this shows the sport of cyling at its very best and very worst at the same time. Up until that point it was a great stage, but it is unacceptable for the organisers to allow this sort of incident on what seems like a regular basis - it wasnt just a one off, unexpected incident - entirely predictable and entirely preventable. However the sport sorted out the problem in a way that probably no other sport would do today. Other sports have become so corporate and bound so tightly to rulebooks and with no expectation that the teams or competitors will act in a sporting way rather than just in their own interest.
That they had the freedom to find as fair a compromise to deal with it as this is to their credit. That the other teams are sporting enough to agree to the compromise is to everyone's credit. Bravo is what I say.
But they really must go away from today and come up with some way to reduce the risk of this type of thing, without limiting fan access in the way that Formula 1 does - finding the right balance may not be easy but they certainly dont have the right balance at the moment.
Good post.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Let me put it this way - if it was group 3 behind the peloton it'd just be bad luck.
If it was group 3 then it'd make sod all difference so wouldn't be an issue Rick.
If however it had been Van Garderen, Quintana, Meintjes...the outcome would have been the same i.e. fairness.0 -
Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?0 -
The big difference is the GC time gaps were irrelevant in the Flecha/Hoogerland incident. I don't know what Flecha wanted them to do. Award a joint stage win?0
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Cornerblock wrote:Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?
Long Skytrain Runnin'0 -
A rider crashes when with about 1km when the road is suddenly and unavoidably blocked by a failure of the organisers. The rider is given the gap over the chasing bunch he had at the time of the crash.Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Another difference is that road was completely blocked by the incident (same as with Yates's inflatable).BlueDynamo wrote:I hadn't picked up on this when reading the thread but I've read elsewhere that the reason Juan Antonio Flecha is so passionate about this is that he was on the end of a commissaries decision in 2011 while in a break when a car hit him and Jonny Hoogerland crashed into the barbed wire fence. He's claiming this is no different so why hasn't it been judged the same as his incident.
I can only think its due to the yellow jersey and the distance from the finish when compared to his incident.
Flecha is right - there's not much precedent for it. I can see why he sees it like that.
Difference is the colour jersey Flecha was wearing.
Did you complain when that rider was Adam Yates? Because that's the precedent.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Yes.Cornerblock wrote:Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?Twitter: @RichN950 -
Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
I've been having a Kate Bush fest since then.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Joelsim wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Let me put it this way - if it was group 3 behind the peloton it'd just be bad luck.
If it was group 3 then it'd make sod all difference so wouldn't be an issue Rick.
If however it had been Van Garderen, Quintana, Meintjes...the outcome would have been the same i.e. fairness.
...Hopefully
At the end of the day we can't say for sure. But yea, the big difference for me is that flecha was competing for the stage win...today was for the overall. All the difference in the worldYou live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Joelsim wrote:Cornerblock wrote:Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?
Long Skytrain Runnin'
I want to know what music the Guardian have for the little video of Froome running on their article. I recognise it but can't name it.Correlation is not causation.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Yes.Cornerblock wrote:Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?
Ah, an obvious choice.0 -
Slim Boy Fat wrote:Another view of events here.
https://twitter.com/11uisagusti/status/ ... 6815314944
There's that prick from Poland again. ClearIy has no interest in the race, only interested in just running in front of the camera bike with his placard. WTF do people like him bother going for. Complete 'tard.
Interesting.
At what point does he abandon the bike?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Above The Cows wrote:Joelsim wrote:Cornerblock wrote:Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?
Long Skytrain Runnin'
I want to know what music the Guardian have for the little video of Froome running on their article. I recognise it but can't name it.
Sounds like Bach's Fugue played on strings (rather than an organ as usual )It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Slim Boy Fat wrote:Another view of events here.
https://twitter.com/11uisagusti/status/ ... 6815314944
There's that prick from Poland again. ClearIy has no interest in the race, only interested in just running in front of the camera bike with his placard. WTF do people like him bother going for. Complete 'tard.
Interesting.
At what point does he abandon the bike?
When his arms got sore.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
A rider crashes when with about 1km when the road is suddenly and unavoidably blocked by a failure of the organisers. The rider is given the gap over the chasing bunch he had at the time of the crash.Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Another difference is that road was completely blocked by the incident (same as with Yates's inflatable).BlueDynamo wrote:I hadn't picked up on this when reading the thread but I've read elsewhere that the reason Juan Antonio Flecha is so passionate about this is that he was on the end of a commissaries decision in 2011 while in a break when a car hit him and Jonny Hoogerland crashed into the barbed wire fence. He's claiming this is no different so why hasn't it been judged the same as his incident.
I can only think its due to the yellow jersey and the distance from the finish when compared to his incident.
Flecha is right - there's not much precedent for it. I can see why he sees it like that.
Difference is the colour jersey Flecha was wearing.
Did you complain when that rider was Adam Yates? Because that's the precedent.
ITV started the highlights with Froome putting on the yellow jersey 'for the benefit of people who watched it live' (as opposed to the cost of the people who hadn't watched it live.....) and referred to a 'big a farce as you'll see', so I was just waiting for something to happen.
So that wasn't really an option for me.
As soon as I saw the crash I figured they'd fiddled with the final times. That's not really in the spirit of the Tour as I understand it, nor is there much precedent for it.
I'm not particularly anti the decision - it probably makes sense, but I can see why Flecha doesn't like it much, especially given that crash really haunted him for a long time afterwards.
You could say it's a bit like the time they neutralised the race after a few big crashes. That was unprecedented too. Probably right - they didn't have enough ambulances there. Prudhome likes to shake it up a bit.0 -
Separately, I was much more cheesed off with ITV ruining the suspense of the stage in the highlights program.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:As soon as I saw the crash I figured they'd fiddled with the final times. That's not really in the spirit of the Tour as I understand it, nor is there much precedent for it.
They dock or add time all the time!
The 3km rule, bonifications, Yates crash, Porte's wheel change, Froome's illegal feed... Must be hundreds more.0 -
Yeah, that's totally fair - I'd watched it live so I didn't think about it at the time, but they shouldn't do that.Rick Chasey wrote:Separately, I was much more cheesed off with ITV ruining the suspense of the stage in the highlights program.
Generally their highlights have been good though IMHO0 -
It's more when bad external sh!t happens my understanding is that they said 'yeah, it's bad luck'. It's part of the circus.
Merckx didn't get his time back when he got punched by a fan.
Neither did Flecha, neither did Giuseppe Gerini on the Alp.
Look, like I said, I don't mind the decision, but I get the other side.
Sheesh, you lot are defensive of your Froomedog!0 -
Having watched it live and then the highlights with the analysis of the crash, I think the organisers need to do two things (but we know they won't do F all) to try and stop this sort of thing happening again.
1. Instead of having maybe 1-2K of barriers both sides of the road they could have barriers for maybe 5K from the finish but on one side of the road only. This then could be easily policed to make sure all the public were behind the barriers which would give the riders plenty of room. It would also curtail the running morons and flag wavers. When you looked at the finish of today's stage this in fact was what they had hastily done for the last 500m of the shorted route and it worked OK.
2. Keep motorbikes away from the front of the riders. If you took notice of the coverage the lead three riders always had their camera motorbike behind them and they had no such problems. Similarly Quintana's group also had several motorbikes behind but none in front I think. It was only Froome's group which in one shot actually had four motorbikes in front of them which is what the source of the problem was. Obviously inside the barriered section this would be less likely to be a problem as there would be more room for the riders and camera bikes.
The big winner today was Quintana who in the final shake-up only lost one second to Froome instead of the 30 seconds he would have lost without the accident. he was also lucky that the route was shortened from the summit otherwise he could have easily lost three minutes to Froome, Porte and Mollema.
The biggest loser in all this was Richie Porte. He lost 1:40 to a puncture in one of the earlier stages and should have picked up at least 30 seconds and moved himself up the standings. He's looking pretty fit and still my tip for a podium finish. He can time trial as well so I expect him to really do well tomorrow in the ITT.
Quintana just doesn't have anything to offer. Now the other GC contenders have seen he is vulnerable they will be out for blood. I'd be amazed if he finishes in the top 5.0 -
Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor to give it its full titleSalsiccia1 wrote:Above The Cows wrote:Joelsim wrote:Cornerblock wrote:Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?
Long Skytrain Runnin'
I want to know what music the Guardian have for the little video of Froome running on their article. I recognise it but can't name it.
Sounds like Bach's Fugue played on strings (rather than an organ as usual )Twitter: @RichN950 -
Rick Chasey wrote:It's more when bad external sh!t happens my understanding is that they said 'yeah, it's bad luck'. It's part of the circus.
Merckx didn't get his time back when he got punched by a fan.
Neither did Flecha, neither did Giuseppe Gerini on the Alp.
Look, like I said, I don't mind the decision, but I get the other side.
Sheesh, you lot are defensive of your Froomedog!
I didn't mean to be defending Froome!
I thought Yates should get the time back as well if that helps...0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Look, like I said, I don't mind the decision, but I get the other side.
You're not entirely alone here - I also have an ambivalent feeling towards it - it feels sort of just, but it's not necessarily how cycling has done things in the past. It could have ended up being one more bizarre way that the tour has been won or lost - the sort of story you tell down the decades - and it's just been (almost literally) neutralised. Taking the long view something may have been lost.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor to give it its full titleSalsiccia1 wrote:Above The Cows wrote:Joelsim wrote:Cornerblock wrote:Timoid. wrote:Well that was weird.
Love the choice of music in the ITV closing credits
Was it Running Up That Hill?
Long Skytrain Runnin'
I want to know what music the Guardian have for the little video of Froome running on their article. I recognise it but can't name it.
Sounds like Bach's Fugue played on strings (rather than an organ as usual )
Of course it bl**dy is! Silly me. I spent 6 months as a kid working on a ballet recital to this. How could I not remember this. I blame MA thesis grading brain.Correlation is not causation.0 -
What's happened in Nice puts all this into perspective.0
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It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0
