Who will be the next Prime Minister

surrey_commuter

Nobody likes a banker but we should acknowledge that as an industry it pays £65bn a year in taxes and has a £50bn trade surplus

BelgianBeerGeek

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Nobody likes a banker but we should acknowledge that as an industry it pays £65bn a year in taxes and has a £50bn trade surplus

And would quite happily up sticks and move to (insert country/regime here). God these guys are heroes.

verylonglegs

Seems to be a lot of focus on propping up old industries but I was also thinking about the lack of vision in moving into new ones. Had a massive solar farm installed near me last year, it required over a hundred German and Dutch workers staying on site for weeks. Why haven't we the capacity to do this ourselves? We can't even build our own power stations anymore. The list could go on.

mrfpb

verylonglegs wrote:

Seems to be a lot of focus on propping up old industries but I was also thinking about the lack of vision in moving into new ones. Had a massive solar farm installed near me last year, it required over a hundred German and Dutch workers staying on site for weeks. Why haven't we the capacity to do this ourselves? We can't even build our own power stations anymore. The list could go on.

Which brings us back to the dysfunctional relationship between EU and UK economies

Pross

verylonglegs wrote:

Seems to be a lot of focus on propping up old industries but I was also thinking about the lack of vision in moving into new ones. Had a massive solar farm installed near me last year, it required over a hundred German and Dutch workers staying on site for weeks. Why haven't we the capacity to do this ourselves? We can't even build our own power stations anymore. The list could go on.

I think both of those are a result of successive governments energy policies (or total lack of one). While we've been trying to keep everyone happy with how we proceed technology has moved on and we don't have the technology.

Lookyhere

verylonglegs wrote:

Seems to be a lot of focus on propping up old industries but I was also thinking about the lack of vision in moving into new ones. Had a massive solar farm installed near me last year, it required over a hundred German and Dutch workers staying on site for weeks. Why haven't we the capacity to do this ourselves? We can't even build our own power stations anymore. The list could go on.

there is no dysfunctional relationship - down here EU money has been used to build the eden project, many road upgrades, leisure facilities and superfast broadband, which does help with new start-ups, it may not be spent the way you want but in Cornwall it has realised 6000 direct jobs - does anyone really think any UK gov would spend money on the UKs poorer regions?

£500m (similar amount to NE England) was to be spent by 2020 and no doubt new funding beyond 2020, now what? i hope Cornish MPs like Scott Mann are very pleased with their act of self destruction.

As Boris (the remainer) Johnson said this Feb, the UKs problems are home grown and nothing to do with the EU, indeed that well know INNER Andrea Leadsome said exactly the same thing....... strange how power corrupts

verylonglegs

Lookyhere wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Seems to be a lot of focus on propping up old industries but I was also thinking about the lack of vision in moving into new ones. Had a massive solar farm installed near me last year, it required over a hundred German and Dutch workers staying on site for weeks. Why haven't we the capacity to do this ourselves? We can't even build our own power stations anymore. The list could go on.

there is no dysfunctional relationship - down here EU money has been used to build the eden project, many road upgrades, leisure facilities and superfast broadband, which does help with new start-ups, it may not be spent the way you want but in Cornwall it has realised 6000 direct jobs - does anyone really think any UK gov would spend money on the UKs poorer regions?

£500m (similar amount to NE England) was to be spent by 2020 and no doubt new funding beyond 2020, now what? i hope Cornish MPs like Scott Mann are very pleased with their act of self destruction.

As Boris (the remainer) Johnson said this Feb, the UKs problems are home grown and nothing to do with the EU, indeed that well know INNER Andrea Leadsome said exactly the same thing....... strange how power corrupts

That is entirely my point, they should have been...about 30yrs ago.

Lookyhere

its not just the Governments, its UK industry, we ve been world leaders in many sectors yet the directors of these companies didnt invest in R&D but our competitors did.

Some of the growth prediction down grades for the UK are staggering, the new PM whoever it maybe, is going to be between a rock an a hard place on Article 50 and if we do leave, they ll be no money for hard pressed public services, let alone regional development.

bobmcstuff

Osborne reckons he's going to cut corporation tax to 15% to try and preserve investment.

verylonglegs

I'm surprised with his leadership chances blown he hasn't chucked it all in and departed like Cameron leaving someone else to take the hit. What is he hoping for?

finchy

verylonglegs wrote:

I'm surprised with his leadership chances blown he hasn't chucked it all in and departed like Cameron leaving someone else to take the hit. What is he hoping for?

Will it really matter for him? If everything goes t1ts up, I can imagine that even the leave voters would have a hard time blaming him, although from the noises they've been making over the past few days, the leave campaigners already seem to be trying to deflect blame for the fact that they promised way more than they could deliver.

rick_chasey

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07 ... ly-when-d/

Michael Gove has 'an emotional need to gossip, particularly when drink is taken' - why he can't be trusted with Britain's most sensitive secrets

Oof knives are out.

bendertherobot

Gosh

Stevo_666

bobmcstuff wrote:

Osborne reckons he's going to cut corporation tax to 15% to try and preserve investment.

It was already announced in the last budget that it was going down to 17%.

Lookyhere

Stevo 666 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Osborne reckons he's going to cut corporation tax to 15% to try and preserve investment.

It was already announced in the last budget that it was going down to 17%.

everything he has said he would do, has been scrapped, given he is likely to be replaced by the new PM, who cares what he says?
Germany's (total CT) is 30% and hasnt hindered their economy, there is obviously more to inward investment than just CT.

Leadsom is looking strong, her promise to implement Brexit sooner than anyone else, should garner support from the 75% of tories who voted Brexit (against their PM's wishes) and means Corp tax might need to be even lower

ugo.santalucia

bobmcstuff wrote:

Osborne reckons he's going to cut corporation tax to 15% to try and preserve investment.

it's the beginning of what we said a few pages ago, basically the future business model of the UK is somewhere along the lines of a tax haven... maybe not full on Cayman, but not a million miles from it

Bo Duke

Except for locals who'll still pay through the ar$e.

ugo.santalucia

Bo Duke wrote:

Except for locals who'll still pay through the ar$e.

One of the lowest tax rates in the EU... the 20% income tax bracket includes the vast majority of folks on a wage

bobmcstuff

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Bo Duke wrote:

Except for locals who'll still pay through the ar$e.

One of the lowest tax rates in the EU... the 20% income tax bracket includes the vast majority of folks on a wage

Thing is it's not really, because there's 12% NI too which is just more tax. You can argue the semantics but from my perspective it comes off with PAYE and is indistinguishable from tax. Base rate for most people is 32% not 20%.

I also have 9% student loan on top of that which also comes out through PAYE, but that is a bit different (and I wouldn't have my job without the degree).

Lookyhere

Farage for PM ?

talk about rats leaving a sinking ship, though with 2m in expenses and continuing to carryon as a MEP, i doubt he ll give a 4x what the fffff ing tax rate is.

bendertherobot

He'll need a by election............and one that favours him. Tricky.

ugo.santalucia

bobmcstuff wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Bo Duke wrote:

Except for locals who'll still pay through the ar$e.

One of the lowest tax rates in the EU... the 20% income tax bracket includes the vast majority of folks on a wage

Thing is it's not really, because there's 12% NI too which is just more tax. You can argue the semantics but from my perspective it comes off with PAYE and is indistinguishable from tax. Base rate for most people is 32% not 20%.

I also have 9% student loan on top of that which also comes out through PAYE, but that is a bit different (and I wouldn't have my job without the degree).

True... however, tax revenue in the Uk is lower than most Eu states, excluding Ireland... no idea how the health system is in Ireland... and bear in mind states like Netherlands force you to pay a healthcare insurance if you are above the basic salary

bendertherobot

Farage steps down then, from UKIP at least. What next? A new party? Step down from the EU must follow, it seems.

By election time.

bendertherobot

Farage steps down then, from UKIP at least. What next? A new party? Step down from the EU must follow, it seems.

By election time.

jimnm

I reckon Ken Dodd as PM and Lester Piggot for Chancellor of the exchequer. haha!!!

TheBigBean

verylonglegs wrote:

Seems to be a lot of focus on propping up old industries but I was also thinking about the lack of vision in moving into new ones. Had a massive solar farm installed near me last year, it required over a hundred German and Dutch workers staying on site for weeks. Why haven't we the capacity to do this ourselves? We can't even build our own power stations anymore. The list could go on.

Germany had subsidies for renewables before other countries and therefore developed a number of solar contractors. This was helped by a number of the contractors also manufacturing solar panels. China then started making solar panels and undercut all the Germany companies who promptly went bust. After some restructuring the Germany companies then focused on building sites rather than panels. The UK contractors looked at the profit margins and guarantees required and largely didn't enter the sector. Probably wise given the number of contractors, who didn't even make panels, that have gone bust recently.

It doesn't take very long to build a solar site, so it is not worth the effort of employing locals when you can simply ship the labour in from wherever and move it from site to site.

[EU bashing]

The EU on behalf of Germany engaged in some shameless protectionism with regard to solar panel prices. They introduced a minimum panel price from China, so a large proportion of UK solar is built using overpriced panels. Despite the fact that all the German panel producers still went bust the minimum panel price still remains in force. Now if it had been a tax at least there would have been some benefit to someone in the EU.

Solar projects in Germany are not financed in London by and large, but instead in Germany using KfW (a government owned development bank) finance at a rate no commercial bank can compete with.

[/EU bashing

bobmcstuff

/\ I think part of this is that while the UK government spends ages whingeing about EU regulations etc. the German government is just getting on and doing things.

E.g, with steel the UK govt has been doing much hand-wringing about EU state aid laws the Germans have been handing out massive energy subsidies to their heavy industry ( 40x more than the UK since 2013, see FT article)

IMHO the Uk govt has been using EU rules as a scapegoat whenever they don't want to do something to try and deflect blame.

Stevo_666

Lookyhere wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Osborne reckons he's going to cut corporation tax to 15% to try and preserve investment.

It was already announced in the last budget that it was going down to 17%.

everything he has said he would do, has been scrapped, given he is likely to be replaced by the new PM, who cares what he says?
Germany's (total CT) is 30% and hasnt hindered their economy, there is obviously more to inward investment than just CT.

Leadsom is looking strong, her promise to implement Brexit sooner than anyone else, should garner support from the 75% of tories who voted Brexit (against their PM's wishes) and means Corp tax might need to be even lower

Because if it is passed into law in a budget while he is still Chancellor then it is likely to happen - like the drops to 19% and 17%; not yet in force but on the statutes.

Agree BTW that there is more to it than the CT rate but the evidence I have seen shows it does positively impact investment and jobs. Also I have led a project that did exactly that, driven by the competitive UK CT rate.

How do you know that Germanys economy would not have done better with a more competitive tax rate?

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia wrote:

True... however, tax revenue in the Uk is lower than most Eu states, excluding Ireland... no idea how the health system is in Ireland... and bear in mind states like Netherlands force you to pay a healthcare insurance if you are above the basic salary

Here are the facts on tax revenue: fairly clear correlation between percentages and those that impose fairly penal rates on the income tax side. Although many of those near the top have corporate rates which are in the low twenties - such as most of the Nordics.
https://data.oecd.org/tax/tax-revenue.htm

verylonglegs

TheBigBean wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Seems to be a lot of focus on propping up old industries but I was also thinking about the lack of vision in moving into new ones. Had a massive solar farm installed near me last year, it required over a hundred German and Dutch workers staying on site for weeks. Why haven't we the capacity to do this ourselves? We can't even build our own power stations anymore. The list could go on.

Germany had subsidies for renewables before other countries and therefore developed a number of solar contractors. This was helped by a number of the contractors also manufacturing solar panels. China then started making solar panels and undercut all the Germany companies who promptly went bust. After some restructuring the Germany companies then focused on building sites rather than panels. The UK contractors looked at the profit margins and guarantees required and largely didn't enter the sector. Probably wise given the number of contractors, who didn't even make panels, that have gone bust recently.

It doesn't take very long to build a solar site, so it is not worth the effort of employing locals when you can simply ship the labour in from wherever and move it from site to site.

[EU bashing]

The EU on behalf of Germany engaged in some shameless protectionism with regard to solar panel prices. They introduced a minimum panel price from China, so a large proportion of UK solar is built using overpriced panels. Despite the fact that all the German panel producers still went bust the minimum panel price still remains in force. Now if it had been a tax at least there would have been some benefit to someone in the EU.

Solar projects in Germany are not financed in London by and large, but instead in Germany using KfW (a government owned development bank) finance at a rate no commercial bank can compete with.

[/EU bashing

Cheers, interesting stuff. That's what is good about the diverse user base here, show a flash of ignorance and some useful knowledge usually turns up from somewhere.