British male road cyclist fails drug test [Mail]
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DeVlaeminck wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:To help you understand what she is experiencing I would say that your point about shallow breathing is confusing cause and effect. As an asthmatic I breath shallowly to avoid coughing. You are right that this can be taught and is why asthmatics are encouraged to exercise - usually cycling and swimming.
Triggers for asthma vary from person to person by common ones are cold weather, dust and pollen. It may also be triggered by allergies. To me these factors can be cummulative so it is very difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of an asthma attack.
To help you understand what she is experiencing think of it as drowning on dry land.
Yes I see what you mean about the shallow breathing being a symptom rather than a cause of the asthma. She does struggle to do it even when she isn't having an attack though for example when we were practising which made me think maybe there is an element of her routinely not breathing "properly" if there is such a thing. Speculation on my part though I admit.
Like fixing a bike change one thing at a time. the inhalers can catch in your throat, try taking them yourself to see what she is dealing with. Get her allergy tested and remove as much carpet from your house as possiblr but prioritise her bedroom.
Just remember that Laura Trott has very bad asthma0 -
Excellent article here which I agree with 100%.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/ ... ons_4040630 -
So the leak emanates from BC. Dead cat anyone? Your talking about this not SS aren't you.
On a personal note, if the athsma had me by the throat and it does at this time of year, I'd take strychnine if it meant I could breathe.
BTW the drug is not a performance enhancer, for an endurance athlete quite the reverse.'fool'0 -
deleted. Either the article has been corrected or I'm pssd. Possibly both.0
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Joelsim wrote:The_Boy wrote:Joelsim wrote:Orica have admitted that this was a new drug for Yates and that he's not had a TUE for it before. If that's the case then a ban is inevitable.
Link?
https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/7 ... 0392864768
He phoned them up.
And this...
https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/725977185685622784
No approval of TUE, you can't take something. If he hasn't applied for a TUE for this substance before and he has it in his bloodstream...
So why take it if it's going to show up in a doping control?0 -
nickice wrote:Joelsim wrote:The_Boy wrote:Joelsim wrote:Orica have admitted that this was a new drug for Yates and that he's not had a TUE for it before. If that's the case then a ban is inevitable.
Link?
https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/7 ... 0392864768
He phoned them up.
And this...
https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/725977185685622784
No approval of TUE, you can't take something. If he hasn't applied for a TUE for this substance before and he has it in his bloodstream...
So why take it if it's going to show up in a doping control?
Presumably because he thought he would have the appropriate TUE and it would treat his asthma better than the other options............0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:nickice wrote:Joelsim wrote:The_Boy wrote:Joelsim wrote:Orica have admitted that this was a new drug for Yates and that he's not had a TUE for it before. If that's the case then a ban is inevitable.
Link?
https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/7 ... 0392864768
He phoned them up.
And this...
https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/725977185685622784
No approval of TUE, you can't take something. If he hasn't applied for a TUE for this substance before and he has it in his bloodstream...
So why take it if it's going to show up in a doping control?
Presumably because he thought he would have the appropriate TUE and it would treat his asthma better than the other options............
Which was my point. The most logical explanation is the one given by OGE that it was an administrative errie.. They'd have to be pretty stupid to have a rider take a detectable banned substance.0 -
Seriously, all this dissection by means of Twitter?! It's fundamentally unreliable.
Conjecture and speculation are one thing (particularly when limited to 140 characters). Facts are another.
At best, the press - and therefore we - only ever know the majority of the facts. Never all of the facts. At worst we know barely enough to make even the slightest sense of the situation.
There are too many lingering questions:
Who knows his history of TUEs?
Who knows his full asthma diagnosis?
Does he even have an official medical diagnosis for asthma?
Does that even matter if it is to be judged in terms of strict liability?
What is the full and proper process around TUEs and therefore what are the rider's specific responsibilities and what are the team's/doctor's specific responsibilities?
To what degree/concentration was the drug found in the A sample?
What about the B sample?
What are the precedents (i.e. would it be judged on previous TUE cases, asthma drug cases, both, or is there a lack of precedent)?
etc.
All of what we're reading consists of guessing the answers to those questions.0 -
/\ doesn't change the fact that medical literature linked above says that it is a useless PED.0
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Why would BC leak this, this week of all weeks? Surely anything other than more bad press.0
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Shadowrider wrote:Why would BC leak this, this week of all weeks? Surely anything other than more bad press.
As has been said before; there's a big difference between the leak coming from BC and BC instigating the leak.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:/\ doesn't change the fact that medical literature linked above says that it is a useless PED.
So why is it on the list?0 -
http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling- ... ro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.0 -
smithy21 wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:/\ doesn't change the fact that medical literature linked above says that it is a useless PED.
So why is it on the list?
Presumably because it has some benefit in strength based, short duration sports? The list isn't sport specific and something beneficial to a weight lifter or sprinter might be no use or even counter-productive to an endurance athlete.0 -
I get that. But an endurance based athlete did take it without a TUE so he has to cop for it even if it's a small ban.
By the same token Contador got caught with an incredibly small amount of clenbuterol in his system- weren't many shades of grey on here when that one broke.0 -
smithy21 wrote:By the same token Contador got caught with an incredibly small amount of clenbuterol in his system- weren't many shades of grey on here when that one broke.
Apples and oranges. (a) Clenbuterol is not allowed under any circumstances, you can't get a TUE for it (b) Contador's explanation was at least on order of magnitude less plausible than that of Yates.0 -
Interesting. I think it's less common than salbutamol so maybe that's why it didn't get taken off when salbutamol did?nickice wrote:http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling-federation-doctor-nothing-surprising-about-prevalence-of-asthma-amongst-pro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:
Interesting. I think it's less common than salbutamol so maybe that's why it didn't get taken off when salbutamol did?nickice wrote:http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling-federation-doctor-nothing-surprising-about-prevalence-of-asthma-amongst-pro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.
That doctor said there had been lobbying to take salbutamol off so I guess it was just a lack of lobbying for Terbutaline and WADA didn't look into it any further. I feel sorry for Yates as he even declared he'd taken it. Wouldn't fancy being the OGE doctor (soon to be ex-doctor?) today.0 -
r0bh wrote:smithy21 wrote:By the same token Contador got caught with an incredibly small amount of clenbuterol in his system- weren't many shades of grey on here when that one broke.
Apples and oranges. (a) Clenbuterol is not allowed under any circumstances, you can't get a TUE for it (b) Contador's explanation was at least on order of magnitude less plausible than that of Yates.
Not really though is it. Going back to the point raised in the previous page everything is speculation. The only difference is the level of plausible deniability is higher in the Yates case.0 -
What it boils down to is that he has a prohibited substance in his blood and he's going to cop a ban for it, whether we think it's effective as a PED or not.
I also suspect there is someone at BC with a healthier-looking bank balance.0 -
smithy21 wrote:I get that. But an endurance based athlete did take it without a TUE so he has to cop for it even if it's a small ban.
By the same token Contador got caught with an incredibly small amount of clenbuterol in his system- weren't many shades of grey on here when that one broke.
I'm not disagreeing with any of that, I was just responding to the question of why it's on the list if it's no use as a PED. The fact it apparently doesn't help an endurance athlete just lends credence to the defence that it was being used for its intended purpose as an asthma treatment. It's one of those cases where someone has to be punished for the incompetence if nothing else and the only person who can be punished is the rider.0 -
nickice wrote:http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling-federation-doctor-nothing-surprising-about-prevalence-of-asthma-amongst-pro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.
- or rather explains the likely reason it is still on the list.
That's a very good discussion I think. Addresses why he might use this rather than salbutamol - slightly different drug, different device and formulation, that works better in some people. It's why doctors have a choice of meds.0 -
nickice wrote:http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling-federation-doctor-nothing-surprising-about-prevalence-of-asthma-amongst-pro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.
essentially I believe they all required a TUE at one point, and then everything bar Terabutaline was taken off that list.
so its simpler to stick with salbutamol, and actually I think ventolin inhalers are easier to use on a bike than a turbohaler would be.
the one thing Id disagree with in that piece though is you dont use reliever inhalers to treat asthma, you use preventer inhalers to treat and manage the condition and the reliever is what you use basically in an emergency, though it can be often a bit like a placebo crutch you might use it when you dont need to, but it makes you feel more in control of the condition.
but so if you are finding the salbutamol isnt working,and you are using it more than once a week, actually its the preventer medicine they look at first, not just give you a stronger reliever, because that only helps when you have an asthma attack,and what you try to do is stop having the attacks in the first place.
though its difficult because the stronger preventer medicines can start to go down anabolic steroid routes, which youd want to avoid if at all possible as an athlete
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awavey wrote:
.nickice wrote:http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling-federation-doctor-nothing-surprising-about-prevalence-of-asthma-amongst-pro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.
though its difficult because the stronger preventer medicines can start to go down anabolic steroid routes, which youd want to avoid if at all possible as an athlete
glucocorticoids (the steroids in asthma meds) are not anabolic. No proven ergogenic activity, but systemic (oral/injected) dosing allows people who shouldn't be competing to carry on and destroy their joints as well as other adverse effects. these are banned/controlled for the protection of the athletes, not for ped reasons.0 -
It's on the list because it's a general list to cover all sports amongst other things.0
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nickice wrote:http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling-federation-doctor-nothing-surprising-about-prevalence-of-asthma-amongst-pro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.
To be fair to Shane Stokes, he quickly realised while this rider is British, he's not a Sky rider and indeed rides for the de facto Australian pro team of Orica Greenedge.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:nickice wrote:http://cyclingtips.com/2016/04/cycling-federation-doctor-nothing-surprising-about-prevalence-of-asthma-amongst-pro-riders/
Quite well explained here and also raises questions as to why it's on the banned list.
To be fair to Shane Stokes, he quickly realised while this rider is British, he's not a Sky rider and indeed rides for the de facto Australian pro team of Orica Greenedge.
It's put a few of the usual suspects in a bit of a bind though, as: ASTHMA!! INHALERS!! FROOME!!!!!!! has been a bit of a rallying cry for them.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
ddraver wrote:Just \FYI, you re gonna wanna watch this weeks GoT ASAP cos these spoilers arent staying under wraps for long...
Managed to watch it live... Definitely wouldn't have been able to avoid that particular spoiler!0
