British male road cyclist fails drug test [Mail]

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  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,182
    Any team with a systematic doping programme isn't going to bother with beta agonists
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Why is it that so many pro's have asthma?

    I remember cross country at school and you could almost guarantee that the last group to finish would be the asthma sufferers puffing on an inhaler. In fact most with asthma at our school would routinely forget their kit or have some excuse as to why they couldn't do PE.

    I'm no expert, so unsure how many variation's on "asthma" there are, but it just hurts my brain as to how some of the best athlete's on the planet have made it to the top whilst struggling to breathe.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    This might prove useful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... yclist-eid
    _
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    unprofessional
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    I guess the case will depend on who - according the the laws of the sport - has ultimate responsibility for applying for the TUE. Offredo copped a (reduced) ban for whereabouts violations when his team fucked up. TUE applications are, I believe, made through ADAMS.

    Link to UCI for deets below. Note the wording which seems to suggest the rider apply for TUEs.

    http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeut ... xemptions/
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • neonriver
    neonriver Posts: 228
    The_Boy wrote:
    I guess the case will depend on who - according the the laws of the sport - has ultimate responsibility for applying for the TUE. Offredo copped a (reduced) ban for whereabouts violations when his team farked up. TUE applications are, I believe, made through ADAMS.

    Link to UCI for deets below. Note the wording which seems to suggest the rider apply for TUEs.

    http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeut ... xemptions/

    Quoted from the UCi doc "If you are a rider whose doctor has a medical ADAMS account, your team doctor can undertake this task on your behalf through ADAMS. "
  • effillo
    effillo Posts: 257
    Not sure if mentioned but seen Owain Doull had tweeted his support saying he knows how much Yates suffered with asthma over the years whilst living with him. It will be very very sad if this turns out to be more than an admin issue, which in reality if you know you require the TUE permanently you should be personally checking that everything is in line, a massive risk to take putting it all in the hands of team doctors in my opinion. Got a massive like for both Yates lads and was really warming to OGE, just shows what a turbulent sport cycling can be to follow at times.

    This is a mighty sheet storm for BC what with everything else going on, let's just hope it doesn't all affect Rio too much and the athletes can get their heads down and carry on with prep.
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,784
    OnYourRight wrote:
    CarbonClem wrote:
    I'd be surprised/disappointed if he were banned due to a admin oversight ...
    You haven’t thought that through. If you could get away with taking PEDs because of an admin oversight, there would be a massive surge in admin errors.

    Yeah, I have :) Its stated that his asthma was documented, that he'd had previous TUE's for the substance and the substance was declared on his test at P-N, so, its not to my mind, like say Lances backdated steroid cream TUE. If there is history with the substance, and it was down to his Docs/Team to sort the TUE, then I stand by the opinion that its harsh.

    I'm just going on what's been said so far. If he has been deliberately cheating then good riddance!
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    This might prove useful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... yclist-eid

    Maybe it's just me, but that just strengthens my opinion.

    Is using an inhaler to boost your lung capacity 20% any different to taking EPO to raise your hemocrit closer to 150 (or whatever it was). I'm basing this on sufferers being on the "Asthma spectrum" and not being fully blown asthmatics.
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    neonriver wrote:
    The_Boy wrote:
    I guess the case will depend on who - according the the laws of the sport - has ultimate responsibility for applying for the TUE. Offredo copped a (reduced) ban for whereabouts violations when his team farked up. TUE applications are, I believe, made through ADAMS.

    Link to UCI for deets below. Note the wording which seems to suggest the rider apply for TUEs.

    http://www.uci.ch/clean-sport/therapeut ... xemptions/

    Quoted from the UCi doc "If you are a rider whose doctor has a medical ADAMS account, your team doctor can undertake this task on your behalf through ADAMS. "

    Yes. My point was whether in that case the ultimate (legal, rather than moral) responsibility lies with rider or doctor. Hence referring to the Offredo case where he missed an OOC test due to his team not updating his ADAMS whereabouts, even though at the time of the missed test he was taking part in a race and available for testing.

    Because that will presumably one of the main points which will decides if he is to receive a ban or not.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    ddraver wrote:
    ...what are you waiting for?

    Time at home to watch it... Have been busy every evening this week. Planning to watch it this evening.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Dinyull wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    This might prove useful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... yclist-eid

    Maybe it's just me, but that just strengthens my opinion.

    Is using an inhaler to boost your lung capacity 20% any different to taking EPO to raise your hemocrit closer to 150 (or whatever it was). I'm basing this on sufferers being on the "Asthma spectrum" and not being fully blown asthmatics.
    No. EPO added something that wasn't naturally there. An inhaler prevents what is naturally there from being taken away.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    No provisional suspension
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • gsk82
    gsk82 Posts: 3,599
    NapoleonD wrote:
    No provisional suspension

    This shows what a tough stance UEFA have taken with that fat Liverpool player
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    RichN95 wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    This might prove useful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... yclist-eid

    Maybe it's just me, but that just strengthens my opinion.

    Is using an inhaler to boost your lung capacity 20% any different to taking EPO to raise your hemocrit closer to 150 (or whatever it was). I'm basing this on sufferers being on the "Asthma spectrum" and not being fully blown asthmatics.
    No. EPO added something that wasn't naturally there. An inhaler prevents what is naturally there from being taken away.

    Okay, so I understand if naturally you are down 20% on lung capacity because of asthma - I get that and accept use of an inhaler.

    I struggle to see the difference in lung capacity dropping 20% because of training/racing to hemocrit levels dropping over a 3 week stage race?
  • bflk
    bflk Posts: 240
    neonriver wrote:
    bflk wrote:
    Dabber wrote:
    I'd be interested to know how many riders have asthma and have TUEs relating to it.

    So would I. TUE abuse was one of the accusations levelled at the Salazar/Nike Oregon Project. My first question is do these people really have asthma? I can remember kids puffing on these things when I was doing school XC races back in the 80s and I thought it was a bit odd then. TUEs should be public domain info as far as I'm concerned.

    Why? To satisfy your curiosity or others need for "transparency"?

    Stop The Authorities covering up systemic abuse of the TUE system.
  • cruff
    cruff Posts: 1,518
    Dinyull wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    This might prove useful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... yclist-eid

    Maybe it's just me, but that just strengthens my opinion.

    Is using an inhaler to boost your lung capacity 20% any different to taking EPO to raise your hemocrit closer to 150 (or whatever it was). I'm basing this on sufferers being on the "Asthma spectrum" and not being fully blown asthmatics.
    No inhaler 'boosts your lung capacity 20%'. That's not how inhalers work
    Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
    Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Norvern Munkey/Transplanted Laaandoner.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Dinyull wrote:
    Why is it that so many pro's have asthma?

    I remember cross country at school and you could almost guarantee that the last group to finish would be the asthma sufferers puffing on an inhaler. In fact most with asthma at our school would routinely forget their kit or have some excuse as to why they couldn't do PE.

    I'm no expert, so unsure how many variation's on "asthma" there are, but it just hurts my brain as to how some of the best athlete's on the planet have made it to the top whilst struggling to breathe.

    Anecdotal but my youngest has exercise induced asthma. She's always been the sporty one of my 3. We were on a bike ride with her twin bro about 4 years ago so she'd have been about 10 and they had some kind of argument and she starts hanging back - we just went on - then she didn't catch up I go back and she's upset and struggling to breathe. When this happened again a month or so later we went to the doctor and since then she's had a blue inhaler for EIA. It tends to affect her more in cold weather and notably when things are going badly - so in football matches if they are losing and she is getting frustrated (she's the best player on an average team) - can't remember her ever having an attack in a game they have won! A cold cyclocross race is more likely to bring on an attack but she's never had one playing netball even though that is quite high intensity - even doing bleep tests and stuff they do at the county academy.

    So sometimes she is completely fine - other times she will struggle to breathe - it's not that they are necessarily always operating at a limited capacity without their inhaler.

    As an aside with her I think it is linked to her breathing being shallow - especially when she gets agitated. When she got the inhaler she really struggled to take a deep breath and hold it - it's wierd because for me or you it would be something so simple but she had to practice just breathing the stuff in and taking it down into the lungs, holding it for a few seconds and releasing. Part of me thinks some kind of breathing practice would sort the problem out completely.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    NapoleonD wrote:
    No provisional suspension

    Cue copious Cookson cursing out in twittersphere.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    No provisional suspension

    Cue copious Cookson cursing

    Excellent use of alliteration, sir.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    zebulebu wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    This might prove useful.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... yclist-eid

    Maybe it's just me, but that just strengthens my opinion.

    Is using an inhaler to boost your lung capacity 20% any different to taking EPO to raise your hemocrit closer to 150 (or whatever it was). I'm basing this on sufferers being on the "Asthma spectrum" and not being fully blown asthmatics.
    No inhaler 'boosts your lung capacity 20%'. That's not how inhalers work

    No, fair enough. What I was getting at, in the Guardian piece linked above, one of the swimmers said because of training their lung capacity would drop 20%. Using a few different inhalers and steroids she could regain that 20%.
  • neonriver
    neonriver Posts: 228
    bflk wrote:
    neonriver wrote:
    bflk wrote:
    Dabber wrote:
    I'd be interested to know how many riders have asthma and have TUEs relating to it.

    So would I. TUE abuse was one of the accusations levelled at the Salazar/Nike Oregon Project. My first question is do these people really have asthma? I can remember kids puffing on these things when I was doing school XC races back in the 80s and I thought it was a bit odd then. TUEs should be public domain info as far as I'm concerned.

    Why? To satisfy your curiosity or others need for "transparency"?

    Stop The Authorities covering up systemic abuse of the TUE system.

    How would it? All you would see is a list of TUE's. There's a list of TUE's issued by the UCI in 2009 when you needed one for Salbutamol 239 issued in 2014 last year on the list there was 24. Not even 2 per WT team hardly systemic abuse.

    My worry is that is you give in to demand for public TUE next people will ask for riders to publicise there health records so we can make sure it was a legitimate TUE. And clearly that is just stupid.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Orica have admitted that this was a new drug for Yates and that he's not had a TUE for it before. If that's the case then a ban is inevitable.
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,784
    Joelsim wrote:
    Orica have admitted that this was a new drug for Yates and that he's not had a TUE for it before. If that's the case then a ban is inevitable.

    Thats a whole new kettle o' fish. They've screwed him.

    Oh dear.
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,279
    Do riders have any form of legal protection in cases like this when they are seemingly bent over a barrel by the team?
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    In 2015, Norwegian cyclist Vegard Robinson Bugge received a four-month ban for using Terbutaline.
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    homers double wrote:
    Do riders have any form of legal protection in cases like this when they are seemingly bent over a barrel by the team?
    They can sue the team or members of it for damages.
  • homers_double
    homers_double Posts: 8,279
    If a four month ban is issued then I suspect the rider would be better off accepting it and keeping sweet with the team.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it
    Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

    http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960
  • The_Boy
    The_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Joelsim wrote:
    Orica have admitted that this was a new drug for Yates and that he's not had a TUE for it before. If that's the case then a ban is inevitable.

    Link?
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy

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