British male road cyclist fails drug test [Mail]

bobmcstuff

kleinstroker wrote:

Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it

Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960

Not for road cyclists at any rate.

kleinstroker

bobmcstuff wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it

Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960

Not for road cyclists at any rate.

It does raise question of why anyone would take it?

DeadCalm

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

cazhadfield

kleinstroker wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it

Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960

Not for road cyclists at any rate.

It does raise question of why anyone would take it?

For asthma perhaps.....

bobmcstuff

kleinstroker wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it

Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960

Not for road cyclists at any rate.

It does raise question of why anyone would take it?

Because they have asthma and they need it to control their asthma?

If you're suggesting that it doesn't make sense for him to take it as a PED then I agree.

rick_chasey

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

DeadCalm

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process. Positive tests should not be revealed at this stage. His own federation should not be subverting that.

rick_chasey

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process. Positive tests should not be revealed at this stage. His own federation should not be subverting that.

Meh. He failed it. Tough sh!t.

He'll be s BC registered cyclist anyway.

I can't think of a failed test where they have already done the B test before it's in the press.

kleinstroker

bobmcstuff wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it

Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960

Not for road cyclists at any rate.

It does raise question of why anyone would take it?

Because they have asthma and they need it to control their asthma?

If you're suggesting that it doesn't make sense for him to take it as a PED then I agree.

Yes it doesnt make sense to use it unless you needed it. Doubt that will have any impact on the twitterati

RichN95.

kleinstroker wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it

Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960

Not for road cyclists at any rate.

It does raise question of why anyone would take it?

The conclusion quoted refers to supratheraputic inhalation - intake greatly in access of its intended medical use (i.e. when used as a doping product not to cure a malady)

DeadCalm

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process. Positive tests should not be revealed at this stage. His own federation should not be subverting that.

Meh. He failed it. Tough sh!t.

He'll be s BC registered cyclist anyway.

I can't think of a failed test where they have already done the B test before it's in the press.

Seriously?

Ignoring the whole due process thing, ignoring the (alleged) flagrant breach of its duties to a member, both of which, as a lapsed lawyer I'm loathe to do, what do you think their possible motives cold have been if they were indeed the source of the leak?

The_Boy

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process. Positive tests should not be revealed at this stage. His own federation should not be subverting that.

Meh. He failed it. Tough sh!t.

He'll be s BC registered cyclist anyway.

I can't think of a failed test where they have already done the B test before it's in the press.

Seriously?

Ignoring the whole due process thing, ignoring the (alleged) flagrant breach of its duties to a member, both of which, as a lapsed lawyer I'm loathe to do, what do you think their possible motives cold have been if they were indeed the source of the leak?

Money? Just because BC was the source for the leak, it doesn't mean BC leaked it.

Mad_Malx

RichN95 wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Terbutaline is not a very good PED is it

Conclusion: Supratherapeutic inhalation of terbutaline provides an ergogenic effect on muscle strength and anaerobic performance, but decrease endurance due to side-effects.

http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/42/Suppl_57/P3960

Not for road cyclists at any rate.

It does raise question of why anyone would take it?

The conclusion quoted refers to supratheraputic inhalation - intake greatly in access of its intended medical use (i.e. when used as a doping product not to cure a malady)

Its a meeting abstract, not a peer reviewed article. Unless followed up with a proper paper it has minimal value.
I posted a link to a meta-analysis of about 20 different studies further up the thread that comes to much the same conclusion.
Edit : actually no evidence for ergogenic action

DeadCalm

The_Boy wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process. Positive tests should not be revealed at this stage. His own federation should not be subverting that.

Meh. He failed it. Tough sh!t.

He'll be s BC registered cyclist anyway.

I can't think of a failed test where they have already done the B test before it's in the press.

Seriously?

Ignoring the whole due process thing, ignoring the (alleged) flagrant breach of its duties to a member, both of which, as a lapsed lawyer I'm loathe to do, what do you think their possible motives cold have been if they were indeed the source of the leak?

Money? Just because BC was the source for the leak, it doesn't mean BC leaked it.

Oh well that's okay then. As long as it was plain old corruption.

And I repeat the "if true" clause of my original post on this for the avoidance of doubt.

The_Boy

DeadCalm wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process. Positive tests should not be revealed at this stage. His own federation should not be subverting that.

Meh. He failed it. Tough sh!t.

He'll be s BC registered cyclist anyway.

I can't think of a failed test where they have already done the B test before it's in the press.

Seriously?

Ignoring the whole due process thing, ignoring the (alleged) flagrant breach of its duties to a member, both of which, as a lapsed lawyer I'm loathe to do, what do you think their possible motives cold have been if they were indeed the source of the leak?

Money? Just because BC was the source for the leak, it doesn't mean BC leaked it.

Oh well that's okay then. As long as it was plain old corruption.

And I repeat the "if true" clause of my original post on this for the avoidance of doubt.

Where on earth did I say it was OK? You asked for a possible motive, and I gave you one.

rick_chasey

Ah you're a lawyer. Hence focus on the process over the result.

It's gonna come out anyway. Where it comes from is fairly irrelevant.

surrey_commuter

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Why is it that so many pro's have asthma?

I remember cross country at school and you could almost guarantee that the last group to finish would be the asthma sufferers puffing on an inhaler. In fact most with asthma at our school would routinely forget their kit or have some excuse as to why they couldn't do PE.

I'm no expert, so unsure how many variation's on "asthma" there are, but it just hurts my brain as to how some of the best athlete's on the planet have made it to the top whilst struggling to breathe.

Anecdotal but my youngest has exercise induced asthma. She's always been the sporty one of my 3. We were on a bike ride with her twin bro about 4 years ago so she'd have been about 10 and they had some kind of argument and she starts hanging back - we just went on - then she didn't catch up I go back and she's upset and struggling to breathe. When this happened again a month or so later we went to the doctor and since then she's had a blue inhaler for EIA. It tends to affect her more in cold weather and notably when things are going badly - so in football matches if they are losing and she is getting frustrated (she's the best player on an average team) - can't remember her ever having an attack in a game they have won! A cold cyclocross race is more likely to bring on an attack but she's never had one playing netball even though that is quite high intensity - even doing bleep tests and stuff they do at the county academy.

So sometimes she is completely fine - other times she will struggle to breathe - it's not that they are necessarily always operating at a limited capacity without their inhaler.

As an aside with her I think it is linked to her breathing being shallow - especially when she gets agitated. When she got the inhaler she really struggled to take a deep breath and hold it - it's wierd because for me or you it would be something so simple but she had to practice just breathing the stuff in and taking it down into the lungs, holding it for a few seconds and releasing. Part of me thinks some kind of breathing practice would sort the problem out completely.

a very good description of asthma.

To help you understand what she is experiencing I would say that your point about shallow breathing is confusing cause and effect. As an asthmatic I breath shallowly to avoid coughing. You are right that this can be taught and is why asthmatics are encouraged to exercise - usually cycling and swimming.

Triggers for asthma vary from person to person by common ones are cold weather, dust and pollen. It may also be triggered by allergies. To me these factors can be cummulative so it is very difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of an asthma attack.

To help you understand what she is experiencing think of it as drowning on dry land.

dinyull

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process. Positive tests should not be revealed at this stage. His own federation should not be subverting that.

Meh. He failed it. Tough sh!t.

He'll be s BC registered cyclist anyway.

I can't think of a failed test where they have already done the B test before it's in the press.

Seriously?

Ignoring the whole due process thing, ignoring the (alleged) flagrant breach of its duties to a member, both of which, as a lapsed lawyer I'm loathe to do, what do you think their possible motives cold have been if they were indeed the source of the leak?

Did BC leak it, or possibly an newly ex-member of staff wanting to distract from their own controversy?

RichN95.

Maybe Adam Yates leaked it. You know what twins are like. There's always an evil one.

r0bh

Who cares who leaked it? Positive A samples always get leaked somehow, sure they shouldn't be but it's basically an impossibility to keep a lid on it for the whole duration of the process

blazing_saddles

DeadCalm wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

Orica claiming that the leak about Yates came from British Cycling. Outrageous if true.

What's outrageous about it?

He's supposed to be entitled to due process.

So is Shane Sutton.
I guess you just forgot the other day.

DeVlaeminck

Surrey Commuter wrote:

To help you understand what she is experiencing I would say that your point about shallow breathing is confusing cause and effect. As an asthmatic I breath shallowly to avoid coughing. You are right that this can be taught and is why asthmatics are encouraged to exercise - usually cycling and swimming.

Triggers for asthma vary from person to person by common ones are cold weather, dust and pollen. It may also be triggered by allergies. To me these factors can be cummulative so it is very difficult to pinpoint the exact cause of an asthma attack.

To help you understand what she is experiencing think of it as drowning on dry land.

Yes I see what you mean about the shallow breathing being a symptom rather than a cause of the asthma. She does struggle to do it even when she isn't having an attack though for example when we were practising which made me think maybe there is an element of her routinely not breathing "properly" if there is such a thing. Speculation on my part though I admit.

joelsim

The_Boy wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

Orica have admitted that this was a new drug for Yates and that he's not had a TUE for it before. If that's the case then a ban is inevitable.

Link?

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/7 ... 0392864768

He phoned them up.

And this...

https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/725977185685622784

No approval of TUE, you can't take something. If he hasn't applied for a TUE for this substance before and he has it in his bloodstream...

Robkernow

and yet according to Owain Doull he's suffered with asthma for years...

https://twitter.com/owaindoull/status/7 ... gr%5Etweet

but the team claims he has never taken this , or any other, asthma medication before. (see previous post).

No professional athlete should be taking meds without knowing its "PED" status, and/or ensuring a TUE has been provided.
For the team doctor to prescribe it - again, without a TUE- , is surely, unimaginable.

joelsim

Robkernow wrote:

and yet according to Owain Doull he's suffered with asthma for years...

https://twitter.com/owaindoull/status/7 ... gr%5Etweet

but the team claims he has never taken this , or any other, asthma medication before. (see previous post).

No professional athlete should be taking meds without knowing its "PED" status, and/or ensuring a TUE has been provided.
For the team doctor to prescribe it - again, without a TUE- , is surely, unimaginable.

Not asthma medication generally, simply that he hasn't applied for a TUE for this particular medication before, hence it shouldn't be in his system. By the letter of the law that is forbidden and he will be banned.

RichN95.

According to Orica he declared on the form when he did the test, so if he has that and a documented history of asthma then he'll get a pretty light sanction - a few months for being stupid.

joelsim

RichN95 wrote:

According to Orica he declared on the form when he did the test, so if he has that and a documented history of asthma then he'll get a pretty light sanction - a few months for being stupid.

That isn't an excuse though Rich.

Think about it.

He has the drug in his body, he knows this, the doctor knows this. He gets tested (presumably unexpectedly), and therefore the doctor declares it.

The fact is, without a TUE it is a prohibited substance.

Epic fail, whatever the reason/honesty/dishonesty.

RichN95.

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

According to Orica he declared on the form when he did the test, so if he has that and a documented history of asthma then he'll get a pretty light sanction - a few months for being stupid.

That isn't an excuse though Rich.

Think about it.

He has the drug in his body, he knows this, the doctor knows this. He gets tested (presumably unexpectedly), and therefore the doctor declares it.

The fact is, without a TUE it is a prohibited substance.

Epic fail, whatever the reason/honesty/dishonesty.

I'm not saying he'll get acquitted, just that he'll get a minimal ban.

joelsim

Well that Norwegian got 4 months. That is the precedent so I expect it to be like that (given current knowledge).

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

According to Orica he declared on the form when he did the test, so if he has that and a documented history of asthma then he'll get a pretty light sanction - a few months for being stupid.

Not suggesting anything about Yates, but this post and the one in response to it reminded me of chael sonnen. Hadn't occurred to him to fake an injury when he raised he was still glowing, so turns up to drop piss the day before a fight and actually tells the doping control that they're gonna find high testosterone.