Rio Olympics - track cycling

blazing_saddles

Oz have 3 sprinters Anna M, Kaarle McCullough and Steph Morton.
GB won't hand the third a free pass, so they will take 2 to Rio.
Hopefully, now I won't have to resort to any visual aids. :P

The_Boy

AAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhh. i thought you meant that the Australians having the chance of an extra sprinter was behind the possibility of GB not taking the option of a second rider.

/obviously not Machiavelli

RichN95.

Ah the internet - where a simple and obvious answer always loses out to do an ill thought out convoluted plot

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

Ah the internet - where a simple and obvious answer always loses out to do an ill thought out convoluted plot

Tbh, i was amazed nobody was able to use it to prove Sky are doping.

salsiccia1

The_Boy wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

I know real men don't eat quiche, etc,

The who don't do what now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Men_Don%27t_Eat_Quiche

prawny

The_Boy wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Ah the internet - where a simple and obvious answer always loses out to do an ill thought out convoluted plot

Tbh, i was amazed nobody was able to use it to prove Sky are doping.

Team GB spotted with prototype motorised doping setup ahead of Rio olypics

Richmond Racer 2

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Oz have 3 sprinters Anna M, Kaarle McCullough and Steph Morton.
GB won't hand the third a free pass, so they will take 2 to Rio.
Hopefully, now I won't have to resort to any visual aids. :P

The last few posts have made me

Richmond Racer 2

The_Boy wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Join the obvious dots in that.

I'm having a very slow-brain day. Could you map the dots out for me a bit more clearly?

My guess (and this may be wide of the mark) is that to take an extra sprinter Australia would have leave out a sub/reserve from the pursuit team thereby weakening them. But that may well be nonsense.

Hmm. Surely they'd just not take up the extra place either?

Clearly, I wouldn't last five minutes in King's Landing.

More Knots Landing

RoadPainter

Doesn't sound like a well run operation at all. And what's happened to shanaze reade after she switched back to track?
It could be that BC are in control and varnish was lazy, however I suspect the truth is a long way from that.

While I like the idea of stopping Australia winning medals, I don't agree with us not taking all the places we've qualified - and especially don't agree with our selection being based on who gets the place if we don't take it.

What a mess (and one that can't help prep for other riders) a few months before the end of a 4 year cycle.

Richmond Racer 2

RoadPainter wrote:

Doesn't sound like a well run operation at all. And what's happened to shanaze reade after she switched back to track?
It could be that BC are in control and varnish was lazy, however I suspect the truth is a long way from that.

While I like the idea of stopping Australia winning medals, I don't agree with us not taking all the places we've qualified - and especially don't agree with our selection being based on who gets the place if we don't take it.

What a mess (and one that can't help prep for other riders) a few months before the end of a 4 year cycle.

1. Reade isn't yet at the point where she's producing results, and certainly not in competition. It was never a given that she was going to come back from BMX and start producing eye-raising numbers. She may never make them. However in interviews, she's spoken in terms of Tokyo 2020 rather than Rio.

2. No one is saying that 2 spots for the individual W Sprints will not be taken - in fact, see Blazing's post

RoadPainter

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

RoadPainter wrote:

Doesn't sound like a well run operation at all. And what's happened to shanaze reade after she switched back to track?
It could be that BC are in control and varnish was lazy, however I suspect the truth is a long way from that.

While I like the idea of stopping Australia winning medals, I don't agree with us not taking all the places we've qualified - and especially don't agree with our selection being based on who gets the place if we don't take it.

What a mess (and one that can't help prep for other riders) a few months before the end of a 4 year cycle.

1. Reade isn't yet at the point where she's producing results, and certainly not in competition. It was never a given that she was going to come back from BMX and start producing eye-raising numbers. She may never make them. However in interviews, she's spoken in terms of Tokyo 2020 rather than Rio.

2. No one is saying that 2 spots for the individual W Sprints will not be taken - in fact, see Blazing's post

Ta for Shanaze update.

I was going on Shane Sutton's quote at end of Telegraph article. IMO giving up the place shouldn't even be considered an option - and in something like sprint, anything can happen.

blazing_saddles

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Oz have 3 sprinters Anna M, Kaarle McCullough and Steph Morton.
GB won't hand the third a free pass, so they will take 2 to Rio.
Hopefully, now I won't have to resort to any visual aids. :P

The last few posts have made me

Yeah, in trying to say as little as possible, I end up saying more than I should.

Richmond Racer 2

RoadPainter wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

RoadPainter wrote:

Doesn't sound like a well run operation at all. And what's happened to shanaze reade after she switched back to track?
It could be that BC are in control and varnish was lazy, however I suspect the truth is a long way from that.

While I like the idea of stopping Australia winning medals, I don't agree with us not taking all the places we've qualified - and especially don't agree with our selection being based on who gets the place if we don't take it.

What a mess (and one that can't help prep for other riders) a few months before the end of a 4 year cycle.

1. Reade isn't yet at the point where she's producing results, and certainly not in competition. It was never a given that she was going to come back from BMX and start producing eye-raising numbers. She may never make them. However in interviews, she's spoken in terms of Tokyo 2020 rather than Rio.

2. No one is saying that 2 spots for the individual W Sprints will not be taken - in fact, see Blazing's post

Ta for Shanaze update.

I was going on Shane Sutton's quote at end of Telegraph article. IMO giving up the place shouldn't even be considered an option - and in something like sprint, anything can happen.

Ah. That's Shanery, that is

Pross

Was it Jess who spoke out after the Worlds regarding BC's policy of sending riders to World Cup races for experience and the riders then being left as scapegoats for failing to qualify for the team sprint? If so this news isn't a surprise.

DeVlaeminck

Yes she spoke out about Rosie Blount being used rather than sending their best team and hence losing out on qualification. It does sound a bit of a **** up because Rosie has given it up to study medicine now anyway.

The_Boy

Salsiccia1 wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

I know real men don't eat quiche, etc,

The who don't do what now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Men_Don%27t_Eat_Quiche

Everyday an education

The_Boy

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Join the obvious dots in that.

I'm having a very slow-brain day. Could you map the dots out for me a bit more clearly?

My guess (and this may be wide of the mark) is that to take an extra sprinter Australia would have leave out a sub/reserve from the pursuit team thereby weakening them. But that may well be nonsense.

Hmm. Surely they'd just not take up the extra place either?

Clearly, I wouldn't last five minutes in King's Landing.

More Knots Landing

Sometimes, RR, you're words are really very hurtful

awavey

but presumably they arent planning to superglue Vicky Williamson to a track bike for Rio,though I see shes back on the wattbike now

so how will Sutton then explain picking anyone for the 2nd slot if the criteria has become "performances dont indicate she could win a medal in Rio", ignoring that could cover quite a few other track cycling events at these Olympics,and even if the Guardian is perhaps notably using a wording that now says it was only partly in the decision making process they made, even if they dont expand on the other partly bits.

which means Katy becomes the only choice for that second slot, which I dont get why if the team selection isnt made till June,they make this decision well a month ago, when it seems patently obvious it just paints them in a corner of their own making.

why not announce the whole team now if they all went through this post worlds 3 coach system review that assessed their eligbility for Rio

Richmond Racer 2

Pross wrote:

Was it Jess who spoke out after the Worlds regarding BC's policy of sending riders to World Cup races for experience and the riders then being left as scapegoats for failing to qualify for the team sprint? If so this news isn't a surprise.

My reaction to this from Varnish was a sceptical one tbh.

2015-16 Track season:

2015 European Champs.
W TS:
Varnish & Marchant
Finished 5th

UCI Track World Cup (I) Cali.
W TS:
Marchant & Williamson
Finished 9th

UCI Track World Cup (II) Cambridge.
W TS:
Varnish & Marchant
Finished 11th

UCI Track World Cup (III) HK
W TS:
Varnish & Marchant
Finished 2nd


Fact is that they went to the WCup in Cambridge needing points. In their qualifying ride the idiot holding Marchant's bike at the start didn't release her fast enough and she struggled the entire lap 1 to get onto Varnish's wheel. No slipstream and she never had a chance for lap 2 to rack up a competitive time.

They finished 11th out of 14 and didn't make it out of qualies. GB lodged a protest but the Commies turned it down.

Whatever happened in the 2014-15 season, their 2015-16 season results were a bit erratic. But the nail in the coffin was what happened in Cambridge.

r0bh

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Fact is that they went to the WCup in Cambridge needing points. In their qualifying ride the idiot holding Marchant's bike at the start didn't release her fast enough and she struggled the entire lap 1 to get onto Varnish's wheel. No slipstream and she never had a chance for lap 2 to rack up a competitive time.

They finished 11th out of 14 and didn't make it out of qualies. GB lodged a protest but the Commies turned it down.

Whatever happened in the 2014-15 season, their 2015-16 season results were a bit erratic. But the nail in the coffin was what happened in Cambridge.

She should have done a "Philip Hindes" (as that manoeuvre is now known!)

RichN95.

The bottom line with this is that if you want to win a medal in the team sprint the number one rider needs to be able to do a (sea level) sub 19 second lap. In 2011/12 Varnish did this fairly often, but she hasn't done it since. And BC clearly think others are a better bet to do so in 2020.

blazing_saddles

RR is spot on in my book.
Much made of the inclusion of Rosie Blount for 1 world cup, where she and Katy Marchant finished 7th.
No mention of the Cambridge, NZ debacle where they ended up 11th and in desperate qualification trouble.
Surely better to blame idiot holder than ex team members, if you are looking to apportion blame?
A half decent result in NZ and things would be so different.

Rich is also bang on the money, although the figure that was delivered with the message was 18.6".

bobmcstuff

For those who are going http://www.deliriumcafe.com.br/

Rodrego Hernandez

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Was it Jess who spoke out after the Worlds regarding BC's policy of sending riders to World Cup races for experience and the riders then being left as scapegoats for failing to qualify for the team sprint? If so this news isn't a surprise.

My reaction to this from Varnish was a sceptical one tbh.

2015-16 Track season:

2015 European Champs.
W TS:
Varnish & Marchant
Finished 5th

UCI Track World Cup (I) Cali.
W TS:
Marchant & Williamson
Finished 9th

UCI Track World Cup (II) Cambridge.
W TS:
Varnish & Marchant
Finished 11th

UCI Track World Cup (III) HK
W TS:
Varnish & Marchant
Finished 2nd


Fact is that they went to the WCup in Cambridge needing points. In their qualifying ride the idiot holding Marchant's bike at the start didn't release her fast enough and she struggled the entire lap 1 to get onto Varnish's wheel. No slipstream and she never had a chance for lap 2 to rack up a competitive time.

They finished 11th out of 14 and didn't make it out of qualies. GB lodged a protest but the Commies turned it down.

Whatever happened in the 2014-15 season, their 2015-16 season results were a bit erratic. But the nail in the coffin was what happened in Cambridge.

Excellent summary. The funding is from UK sport for medals at the Olympic Games, if they start sending riders to the Olympics that don't show the potential to get a medal, the funding will be questioned and possibly pulled. JV has stagnated since London 2012 and for her to blame her coaches is pitiful. She had every chance to prove herself and unfortunately failed. That's life.

salsiccia1

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

Excellent summary. The funding is from UK sport for medals at the Olympic Games, if they start sending riders to the Olympics that don't show the potential to get a medal, the funding will be questioned and possibly pulled. JV has stagnated since London 2012 and for her to blame her coaches is pitiful. She had every chance to prove herself and unfortunately failed. That's life.

And not one mention of drugs, well played.

DeVlaeminck

Blazing Saddles wrote:

RR is spot on in my book.
Much made of the inclusion of Rosie Blount for 1 world cup, where she and Katy Marchant finished 7th.
No mention of the Cambridge, NZ debacle where they ended up 11th and in desperate qualification trouble.
Surely better to blame idiot holder than ex team members, if you are looking to apportion blame?
A half decent result in NZ and things would be so different.

Rich is also bang on the money, although the figure that was delivered with the message was 18.6".

But who were considered the fastest pairing ?

I don't follow it that closely so maybe someone can explain but if the Cambridge event can be put down to someone else not releasing the bike then the results listed above are 2nd and 5th when Varnish and Marchant have been the pairing. That may not be nailed on medal form but you can see why she is upset with the decision not to go with what she sees as the A team for any qualifier where they were available. That doesn't mean she should have been selected for an individual event of course.

neonriver

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

RR is spot on in my book.
Much made of the inclusion of Rosie Blount for 1 world cup, where she and Katy Marchant finished 7th.
No mention of the Cambridge, NZ debacle where they ended up 11th and in desperate qualification trouble.
Surely better to blame idiot holder than ex team members, if you are looking to apportion blame?
A half decent result in NZ and things would be so different.

Rich is also bang on the money, although the figure that was delivered with the message was 18.6".

But who were considered the fastest pairing ?

I don't follow it that closely so maybe someone can explain but if the Cambridge event can be put down to someone else not releasing the bike then the results listed above are 2nd and 5th when Varnish and Marchant have been the pairing. That may not be nailed on medal form but you can see why she is upset with the decision not to go with what she sees as the A team for any qualifier where they were available. That doesn't mean she should have been selected for an individual event of course.

Looking over the whole qualifying, 10 events. for first two events European champs 2014 and World Cup in Guadalajara GB sent one development rider and a more experienced rider to each Blount at euros Khan to World Cup. The results weren't great but they still had 8 events to come back. After that the team was two of Williamson, Varnish and Merchant. For the most part the results were in the 5th to 9th region with the 11th at Cambridge and the 2nd in HK. The 2nd was an anomaly though as the other major countries had sent 2nd teams as they could afford to having racked up the qualifying points early.

The A team would clearly include a fit Becky James and probably Varnish. The main issue has been the lack of sub 19s rider 1 times only once at sea level since London 2012, the Russians are doing 18.5s at sea level Chinese and Aussies 18.6s Germans a bit slower at 18.8s but Vogel is good enough that she can overcome this, a bit like Pendleton used to as well.

I honestly don't have too much of an issue with sending the development riders to first two events as the teams on paper should of been good enough to qualify but you can't give away over half a second on lap 1 and expect to be competitive. Maybe a fully fit Becky could of made the difference like when they won Bronze at 2013 worlds and Becky was 2 tenths quicker than Vogel and half a second quicker than the 4th fastest lap 2 time. It was just shit that she was injured through almost all the qualifying rounds.

stagehopper

Should also be said that other countries have stepped up a lot since the last Olympics in the team sprint and while more than reasonable to send a couple of inexperienced riders early in the qualification process, it's the improvement and consistency of the likes of Russia and China, coupled with a fall off in times by the GB team, that have contributed to putting GB out of these of these Olympics. Even standing still from 2012 would have seen a qualifying fight.

DeVlaeminck

Thanks interesting for those of us who don't follow it as closely as the road.

awavey

its not just they sent Rosie to the Euros, theyve spent the last two years mixing and matching combinations of different riders and even riders in different positions which disrupts the way the "team" operates, Im sure Jess did lap 2 duties at one event and Katy certainly has done lap 1 and lap 2 positions, they arent the same role and its difficult to excel at both.

and there are plenty of track events in the season where development riders can be sent to learn competition skills outside of the Olympic qualification process, its not beyond the wit of TeamGB to even ask the Revolution team to add it as competition if they are that concerned about lack of experience for their riders.

so whilst I agree the "A team" would always have been Becky James + a.n. other, and it wasnt anyones fault Beckys longer term absence forced a change in the selection, TeamGB rather than coming up with "plan B" and sticking to it kept experimenting for that "a.n. other role", my guess is they assumed Becky would just be back sooner, and maybe its because they were obsessing over the lap 1 time (because Becky would always be lap2) and not looking at the bigger picture they only realised they needed to settle on another pair too late, and dont underestimate the impact a stressful tense environment plays on peoples abilities, its not that they are physically declining, its that they are being mentally drained, funnily enough TeamGB used to employ someone specifically to help with that side of things, apparently hes helping snooker players out thesedays.

and if there has been only one sub 19 second lap at sea level since 2012, the person who set it was Jess,at the world championships last month