B E N D E R's non sweary review site, roubaixcycling.cc (and general kit discussion)

bendertherobot

I've just found another one

http://www.tadaias.cc/#!product-page/c6 ... 180948ee24

letap73

bendertherobot wrote:

I've just found another one

http://www.tadaias.cc/#!product-page/c6 ... 180948ee24

That does look good and I would not be surprised if it also worked very well. There are a plethora of options out there and I honestly don't think there is a huge difference between those options - I think the difference comes down to fit. I think some reviewers in the major cycling magazines (Cycling plus, Cycling weekly etc) are very guilty of underplaying some options due to personal fit issues rather than focusing on actual perforamce. I have seen both road cc and cyclist magazine do an article on the "gabba like" options out there and would be very interested to hear your perspective on this within your blog.

bendertherobot

letap73 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

I've just found another one

http://www.tadaias.cc/#!product-page/c6 ... 180948ee24

That does look good and I would not be surprised if it also worked very well. There are a plethora of options out there and I honestly don't think there is a huge difference between those options - I think the difference comes down to fit. I think some reviewers in the major cycling magazines (Cycling plus, Cycling weekly etc) are very guilty of underplaying some options due to personal fit issues rather than focusing on actual perforamce. I have seen both road cc and cyclist magazine do an article on the "gabba like" options out there and would be very interested to hear your perspective on this within your blog.

I think it's almost a given now that I will have to do that at some point. The main thing is that the Mossa membrane is waterproof and the rest aren't. But it's all about margins and design. I rate the Mossa as the best of all of them, that's heart on sleeve stuff. But the question is "in what conditions?" And it's getting bloody hard. You have one for cold and wet, one for damp and wet, one for going fast, one for this, one for that.

I'm on the fence about the Perfetto, I think I'd rather wear a gilet though.

apreading

Reason why I want one is because I absolutely love the fawesome but the arm holes let in water if it rains - I find they arent as tight around the arms as they could be, so water can run inside there. The addition of short sleeves makes it pretty attractive and if the front is lighter too then that is excellent. What would be REALLY nice would be a convertible version of the Perfetto!

letap73

It is very interesting you should say that about the Mossa - I remember a very short review of the original Mossa in Cycling weekly by Henry Robertshaw I think. He had fit issues with the Mossa and he rated it a 6/10 - the Gabba usually rate 10/10 and others generally 7/8/9 out of ten!

bendertherobot

letap73 wrote:

It is very interesting you should say that about the Mossa - I remember a very short review of the original Mossa in Cycling weekly by Henry Robertshaw I think. He had fit issues with the Mossa and he rated it a 6/10 - the Gabba usually rate 10/10 and others generally 7/8/9 out of ten!

He ignored the advice of Parentini and went for the wrong size apparently. The review doesn't seem to exist anymore.

It's tremendously difficult though trying to cater for all body shapes.

bendertherobot

I shall entitle the piece "The death of the rain jacket........"

daniel_b

bendertherobot wrote:

I'm on the fence about the Perfetto, I think I'd rather wear a gilet though.

The Galibier Gilet, is a beast amongst Gilets.

A nice friendly beast all be it.

And by jove, it's only black and darned yellow!

bendertherobot

Little twitter exchange between me and Castellicafe on twitter. I am not sure about "even 2 jerseys could fit slightly differently always try a few on (in the riding position) - we will be doing free returns" I mean, 2 jerseys should be the same!

Gasaero

Love your work Bender!

I recently bought the Gore Bike Wear Power soft shell wind-stopper SS jersey....AMAZING!!! Great top for 3 season! Just pick the right base layer and warmers if needed and you're good to go!

Cycled to work yesterday (London), 8 degrees in the morning and chest nice and warm and then it was 20 degrees on the way back, jersey worked a treat, blocked the wind/breeze and felt comfortable throughout, the material is top drawer and great fit.

I am 37 chest and a size small fitted brilliantly. I have tried many different brands, big fan of Hoy Vulpine AW range, and found the differences in fit to be so wide off the mark, just got delivery of the DHB Aeron jersey, thinking this will be my "hot" weather jersey although I love Hoy Vulpine clothing, worried about sizing/fit on their SS range.

bendertherobot

I'm really tempted to try that one out actually, cheap at Wiggle, nice colours!

PTestTeam

bendertherobot wrote:

Little twitter exchange between me and Castellicafe on twitter. I am not sure about "even 2 jerseys could fit slightly differently always try a few on (in the riding position) - we will be doing free returns" I mean, 2 jerseys should be the same!

Despite manufacturing tolerances getting very tight these days, there can still be very slight differences in sizes between the same items in the same sizes, especially if there are a lot of panels to be stitched together. Imagine 2 panels are stitched together and the run towards the bottom is out by 1mm (remember a lot of cycling fabrics are stretchy). These panels are then stitched to others where another 1mm might be out. It can happen. It all depends on the quality of manufacturing and subsequent quality control.

PTestTeam

bendertherobot wrote:

letap73 wrote:

It is very interesting you should say that about the Mossa - I remember a very short review of the original Mossa in Cycling weekly by Henry Robertshaw I think. He had fit issues with the Mossa and he rated it a 6/10 - the Gabba usually rate 10/10 and others generally 7/8/9 out of ten!

He ignored the advice of Parentini and went for the wrong size apparently. The review doesn't seem to exist anymore.

It's tremendously difficult though trying to cater for all body shapes.

This is correct. And the performance of the Mossa is very dependent on getting the fit right.

bendertherobot

PTestTeam wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Little twitter exchange between me and Castellicafe on twitter. I am not sure about "even 2 jerseys could fit slightly differently always try a few on (in the riding position) - we will be doing free returns" I mean, 2 jerseys should be the same!

Despite manufacturing tolerances getting very tight these days, there can still be very slight differences in sizes between the same items in the same sizes, especially if there are a lot of panels to be stitched together. Imagine 2 panels are stitched together and the run towards the bottom is out by 1mm (remember a lot of cycling fabrics are stretchy). These panels are then stitched to others where another 1mm might be out. It can happen. It all depends on the quality of manufacturing and subsequent quality control.

I agree but in terms of a jersey being like a second skin that larger one will be impercetibly so. So I do think that the advice that another jersey may fit better, when debating what fit is correct, is perhaps unwise.

apreading

Sometimes these variations are more than imperceptible and you can tell, but it is still quite subtle. The difference in your pictures of the Perfetto are more than just subtle... Its like the climber's jerseys compared to the normal ones - huge difference in size.

bendertherobot

apreading wrote:

Sometimes these variations are more than imperceptible and you can tell, but it is still quite subtle. The difference in your pictures of the Perfetto are more than just subtle... Its like the climber's jerseys compared to the normal ones - huge difference in size.

Indeed, and the chap on twitter said he used the same size in each garment (I assume Gabba, Alpha, Perfetto). Which means either I've been using the Gabba and Alpha too loose OR my Perfetto is much smaller for some reason. Would be good to get someone else's measurements if anyone has one to hand, perhaps laid over a Gabba?

PTestTeam

bendertherobot wrote:

apreading wrote:

Sometimes these variations are more than imperceptible and you can tell, but it is still quite subtle. The difference in your pictures of the Perfetto are more than just subtle... Its like the climber's jerseys compared to the normal ones - huge difference in size.

Indeed, and the chap on twitter said he used the same size in each garment (I assume Gabba, Alpha, Perfetto). Which means either I've been using the Gabba and Alpha too loose OR my Perfetto is much smaller for some reason. Would be good to get someone else's measurements if anyone has one to hand, perhaps laid over a Gabba?

yes I was talking about subtle changes in sizes with the same garment model. It is a bit odd that 2 different performance garments in the same size should differ so much? They must be using different patterns

bendertherobot

Just had a measure. It's a shade under 20 inches. The Mossa is pretty much on 20 inches (large). So all equal to an extent and all rather irrelevant, you just size up (in the Perfetto) if you want to.

But I think the sizing issue is actually the taper. The Mossa is gradual and the taper comes into about 18 inches mid way then terminates at about 16 inches at the waist.

The Perfetto is more aggressive in that regard and, wait for it, the waist is 15 inches. Which is a 2 inch loss around the circumference. I think it's that fit issue rather than chest size which is doing it.

Now, that essentially means, as per Castelli sizing, that a suggested waist size of 36 1/2 (I am less) is being squeezed into 30 inches of space. Not unusual, at the waist, but I wonder if the taper could be better?

bendertherobot

PTestTeam wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

apreading wrote:

Sometimes these variations are more than imperceptible and you can tell, but it is still quite subtle. The difference in your pictures of the Perfetto are more than just subtle... Its like the climber's jerseys compared to the normal ones - huge difference in size.

Indeed, and the chap on twitter said he used the same size in each garment (I assume Gabba, Alpha, Perfetto). Which means either I've been using the Gabba and Alpha too loose OR my Perfetto is much smaller for some reason. Would be good to get someone else's measurements if anyone has one to hand, perhaps laid over a Gabba?

yes I was talking about subtle changes in sizes with the same garment model. It is a bit odd that 2 different performance garments in the same size should differ so much? They must be using different patterns

I think it's more the suggestion that they might rather than do. It would be interesting to see anyone else's measurements of even a different size one.

PTestTeam

bendertherobot wrote:

Just had a measure. It's a shade under 20 inches. The Mossa is pretty much on 20 inches (large). So all equal to an extent and all rather irrelevant, you just size up (in the Perfetto) if you want to.

But I think the sizing issue is actually the taper. The Mossa is gradual and the taper comes into about 18 inches mid way then terminates at about 16 inches at the waist.

The Perfetto is more aggressive in that regard and, wait for it, the waist is 15 inches. Which is a 2 inch loss around the circumference. I think it's that fit issue rather than chest size which is doing it.

Now, that essentially means, as per Castelli sizing, that a suggested waist size of 36 1/2 (I am less) is being squeezed into 30 inches of space. Not unusual, at the waist, but I wonder if the taper could be better?

Or it's a real 'pro' cut and not intended for us mere mortals

bendertherobot

PTestTeam wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

Just had a measure. It's a shade under 20 inches. The Mossa is pretty much on 20 inches (large). So all equal to an extent and all rather irrelevant, you just size up (in the Perfetto) if you want to.

But I think the sizing issue is actually the taper. The Mossa is gradual and the taper comes into about 18 inches mid way then terminates at about 16 inches at the waist.

The Perfetto is more aggressive in that regard and, wait for it, the waist is 15 inches. Which is a 2 inch loss around the circumference. I think it's that fit issue rather than chest size which is doing it.

Now, that essentially means, as per Castelli sizing, that a suggested waist size of 36 1/2 (I am less) is being squeezed into 30 inches of space. Not unusual, at the waist, but I wonder if the taper could be better?

Or it's a real 'pro' cut and not intended for us mere mortals

Could be. I reckon Mario would struggle though.

apreading

I think this is the thing with castelli - they have two distinct levels of 'performance cut'. One for normal people, one for the deformed bodies of actual pro riders.

bendertherobot

I imagine you're right and, of course, were I to size up it will go loos(er) round the the chest and still tight at the waist.

I wonder, for comparison, could someone measure their Gabba XL?

apreading

I had a similar issue with the San remo speed suit when it came out. The body sewn in seemed to be for a totally different size person to the shorts. I really wanted one so tried all sizes. Last one I tried was an XXXL by which time the shorts were baggy, I could finally shoe horn my torso in but the shoulders & arms were still way too tight and close to ripping the material trying to push them in! Gave up in the end.

bungalballs

As a comparison between my Alpha jacket, and my Perfetto:

Alpha Jacket, Size XL: Pit to pit is almost 20" exactly. Waist is just a little over 17".
Perfetto, Size L: Pit to pit is as above, almost 20" exactly. Waist is just under 16".

When laid one over the other, the chest and shoulders are almost exactly the same, but the perfecto does taper more towards the waist. I wear my Alpha with a merino base and often a thin jersey too, and fits about right. The perfetto is.. well... perfect fit for my frame, though I just tried it with my merino base and it does feel very slightly closer fitting than the Alpha. Im 32" waist with 37.5" chest, 15.5" neck.

The Perfecto definitely fits longer at the waist, front and back (thought the Perfetto has the flap at the back). Whereas the Alpha is noticeably short on the front almost to the point where it went back to the shop, until I tried it on the bike.

bendertherobot

Thanks! Might need to speak to castelli as my waist section on xl is 15 inches!

bendertherobot

https://goo.gl/photos/7GBriYGd7AQd3vC7A

Those are my measurements. Wondering now whether it's mis labelled.......

bendertherobot

Lusso arrived and it a considerably better fit and, I have to say, just a nicer feeling thing overall. Though the fit may be compromising my view.

bendertherobot

Corsa 200g v Perfetto 257g.

alex222

Bender I finally, with the heat wave, got round this weekend to wearing the DHB Aeron mitts you'd previously reviewed. Very pleased with them and certainly an upgrade on my old pair.
Has actually felt a bit weird being able to cycle again with just a short sleeve jersey and finger-less mitts