20 odd pages on Labour and nothing on the refugee crisis??!!
Comments
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Best treat it as nothing to do with ethnicity and everything to do with criminal behaviour.
On the other hand...
I hope you don't mind Bally.I referenced this story in the Labour/Refugees thread.
I also posted this link ref Norway.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/europe/norway-offers-migrants-a-lesson-in-how-to-treat-women.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
An extract
Mr. Kelifa, the African asylum seeker, said he still had a hard time accepting that a wife could accuse her husband of sexual assault. But he added that he had learned how to read previously baffling signals from women who wear short skirts, smile or simply walk alone at night without an escort.
“Men have weaknesses and when they see someone smiling it is difficult to control,” Mr. Kelifa said, explaining that in his own country, Eritrea, “if someone wants a lady he can just take her and he will not be punished,” at least not by the police."
Hold your heads and weep.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Well yeah. He'll get here and quickly realise you can't do that else the rozzers will be on him.
Then he'll not do it again and the world wins with one less misogynist being abusive.0 -
Bit late to the thread on this but my 2p on this.
The Syrian refugee situation is terrible human tragedy. I cannot start to imagine how it would be to live in their shoes and I cannot help feel some-what lucky to be born where I have. When I really start to think about it, it's hard not to feel guilty to have what I do have here. Although this is not just isolated to the refugees from Syria. It's very easy to be caught up in our own personal issues and daily lives.
Whilst I feel that help is needed for these refugees, perhaps it should be looked at other UK/EU issues at the same time.
The UK does have a net immigration of people with an increasing population and whilst we are still an aging nation (demographically) we also have a housing situation which is then not helped with a lack of skilled construction work force. A large influx of refugees will probably not help this situation, but if no other options are offered, then I feel we should be offering a place to take refugee. Even at our own expense, but when other options have been exhausted...
Other countries have their own demographic issues. Germany has one of the lowest infertility rates in the world. Their intake of 800k refugees is also fueled by the fact they need to pay for their aging population and chances are that this 800k won't overly help their situation. I believe the Germany issue has been touched on already in the thread.
However, the demographic aging problems in Europe are a massive issue in places in Portugal and Spain. In particular, Portugal has a large net migration issues, mostly caused by austerity and the free EU movement of work has probably not helped. I'm just touching on issues but a few more details on this link.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/23/baby-crisis-europe-brink-depopulation-disaster
So, whilst I feel there is a moral obligations, why aren't countries like Portugal and Spain not taking on more refugees? Do the refugees not want to go to these countries? I know Spain hasn't been political stable recently and perhaps that doesn't help, but to me it seems to kill two birds with stone (or at least help the situations). Admittedly, integration of large numbers of different cultures would be difficult but surely worth while?
So whilst I'm not completely anti-refugee for the UK, I just think there could be countries that could actually potential benefit from the crisis. It's well known that refugees/immigrants (or their offspring) coming from plights do sometimes become extremely successful. Thinking of the likes of Steve Jobs, Alan Sugar etc...
Although, I am sure there is more to it than this simplest approach, I'm no expert and even less so of understanding of Portugal & Spain's economic issues, but I just feel there is other options with Europe not being discussed/pushed/explained.0 -
You have a greater faith in the rozzers than me.Well yeah. He'll get here and quickly realise you can't do that else the rozzers will be on him.
I am sure that will be of great comfort to the victims.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I said it in the other thread: good integration requires all the soft namby pamby stuff that gets done combined with strong clear present policing.
Needs both.0 -
So, whilst I feel there is a moral obligations, why aren't countries like Portugal and Spain not taking on more refugees? Do the refugees not want to go to these countries? I know Spain hasn't been political stable recently and perhaps that doesn't help, but to me it seems to kill two birds with stone (or at least help the situations). Admittedly, integration of large numbers of different cultures would be difficult but surely worth while?
As far as I'm aware the unemployement rate in Spain for 18-24yr olds has been around 50% for several years now. The refugees are following the work and it sounds like there isn't enough in Spain for it's own citizens let alone anyone else.0 -
So, whilst I feel there is a moral obligations, why aren't countries like Portugal and Spain not taking on more refugees? Do the refugees not want to go to these countries? I know Spain hasn't been political stable recently and perhaps that doesn't help, but to me it seems to kill two birds with stone (or at least help the situations). Admittedly, integration of large numbers of different cultures would be difficult but surely worth while?
As far as I'm aware the unemployement rate in Spain for 18-24yr olds has been around 50% for several years now. The refugees are following the work and it sounds like there isn't enough in Spain for it's own citizens let alone anyone else.
That does makes sense. Why go where there is less opportunities. I guess it also gravitates to where refugees already are. If their friends and family have a made new start in Germany, they are likely to follow. It looks like Sweden are having this issue. Likewise if they already speak English, they would want to come to the UK.
That said, Spain/Portugal isn't Syria! With new potential skills they could bring, perhaps it could actually help the economy and create jobs.
http://news.yahoo.com/spanish-unemployment-sees-record-fall-2015-085003656.html
Looks like it's getting better. Perhaps short-term it would be painful for Portugal/Spain but provides a potentially longer term solution to their demographic issues.0 -
So, whilst I feel there is a moral obligations, why aren't countries like Portugal and Spain not taking on more refugees? Do the refugees not want to go to these countries? I know Spain hasn't been political stable recently and perhaps that doesn't help, but to me it seems to kill two birds with stone (or at least help the situations). Admittedly, integration of large numbers of different cultures would be difficult but surely worth while?
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Partly as touched on these countries have net migration because there isn't the work there, partly they don't want what we saw in Cologne happening in Madrid, Lisbon etc.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I said it in the other thread: good integration requires all the soft namby pamby stuff that gets done combined with strong clear present policing.
Needs both.
Its not really about Policing at all, its about the justice system and penalties dished out.
As a Cologne uni prof said on bbc radio, Cologne has had an immigrant fueled crime problem for many years, getting worse, could also be said of many other euro cities but as he went on to say, they get fined, cant pay, disappear, only to get caught again ans so on, if your from Iraq etc a European prison sentence doesn't cut it really
these folk know perfectly well, it is against the law to attack women or rob and rape, they do so because they can get away with it, in their own countries, they d be hanged, flogged, stoned etc
If these people had their citizenship removed (where they were not born in Europe) and/or deported, where possible, criminal sanctions might have an effect but we are all too soft, scared of being labeled racist and in the case of some european leaders, believing everyone is as nice as they are.
Immigration, as much as i m in favour of the EU, could well force me to vote out in any referendum, i do not wish to see, millions of unskilled economic refugees given eu citizenship, come to UK.
Genuine yes of course but as is pointed out, so many, too many of those pouring into EU are young healthy men.0 -
I said it in the other thread: good integration requires all the soft namby pamby stuff that gets done combined with strong clear present policing.
Needs both.
Its not really about Policing at all, its about the justice system and penalties dished out.
As a Cologne uni prof said on bbc radio, Cologne has had an immigrant fueled crime problem for many years, getting worse, could also be said of many other euro cities but as he went on to say, they get fined, cant pay, disappear, only to get caught again ans so on, if your from Iraq etc a European prison sentence doesn't cut it really
these folk know perfectly well, it is against the law to attack women or rob and rape, they do so because they can get away with it, in their own countries, they d be hanged, flogged, stoned etc
If these people had their citizenship removed (where they were not born in Europe) and/or deported, where possible, criminal sanctions might have an effect but we are all too soft, scared of being labeled racist and in the case of some european leaders, believing everyone is as nice as they are.
Immigration, as much as i m in favour of the EU, could well force me to vote out in any referendum, i do not wish to see, millions of unskilled economic refugees given eu citizenship, come to UK.
Genuine yes of course but as is pointed out, so many, too many of those pouring into EU are young healthy men.
I suspect you will not be on your own.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3388422/Huge-influx-migrant-men-lead-sex-attacks-like-Cologne-says-analyst-police-reveal-gangs-blocked-reaching-women-screamed-help.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3388490/Angela-Merkel-invited-baying-asylum-seeker-sex-mob-taunted-Cologne-police-robbing-raping-women.html
People are getting royally pissed off by being taken for fools by what seems to be a concerted effort to cover up and excuse this sort of behavior.0 -
It is disappointing that people are conflating immigration (principally from non-EU nations) with EU membership.
From residents who are outside of the EU, UK has full decision over immigration policy; even if they're coming through other EU member states.0 -
Hmmm! The last time a lot of Muslims moved to Spain they were called Moors and it took a lot of fighting to send them back I believe. Wonder if that's a factor in Spain not taking many.and not a favoured destination for the refugees?
So, whilst I feel there is a moral obligations, why aren't countries like Portugal and Spain not taking on more refugees? Do the refugees not want to go to these countries? I know Spain hasn't been political stable recently and perhaps that doesn't help, but to me it seems to kill two birds with stone (or at least help the situations). Admittedly, integration of large numbers of different cultures would be difficult but surely worth while?
So whilst I'm not completely anti-refugee for the UK, I just think there could be countries that could actually potential benefit from the crisis. It's well known that refugees/immigrants (or their offspring) coming from plights do sometimes become extremely successful. Thinking of the likes of Steve Jobs, Alan Sugar etc...
Although, I am sure there is more to it than this simplest approach, I'm no expert and even less so of understanding of Portugal & Spain's economic issues, but I just feel there is other options with Europe not being discussed/pushed/explained.0 -
Yep, leaving the EU should do it. No more immigration 'cos no one will come here. Job done.I said it in the other thread: good integration requires all the soft namby pamby stuff that gets done combined with strong clear present policing.
Needs both.
Its not really about Policing at all, its about the justice system and penalties dished out.
As a Cologne uni prof said on bbc radio, Cologne has had an immigrant fueled crime problem for many years, getting worse, could also be said of many other euro cities but as he went on to say, they get fined, cant pay, disappear, only to get caught again ans so on, if your from Iraq etc a European prison sentence doesn't cut it really
these folk know perfectly well, it is against the law to attack women or rob and rape, they do so because they can get away with it, in their own countries, they d be hanged, flogged, stoned etc
If these people had their citizenship removed (where they were not born in Europe) and/or deported, where possible, criminal sanctions might have an effect but we are all too soft, scared of being labeled racist and in the case of some european leaders, believing everyone is as nice as they are.
Immigration, as much as i m in favour of the EU, could well force me to vote out in any referendum, i do not wish to see, millions of unskilled economic refugees given eu citizenship, come to UK.
Genuine yes of course but as is pointed out, so many, too many of those pouring into EU are young healthy men.
I suspect you will not be on your own.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3388422/Huge-influx-migrant-men-lead-sex-attacks-like-Cologne-says-analyst-police-reveal-gangs-blocked-reaching-women-screamed-help.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3388490/Angela-Merkel-invited-baying-asylum-seeker-sex-mob-taunted-Cologne-police-robbing-raping-women.html
People are getting royally pissed off by being taken for fools by what seems to be a concerted effort to cover up and excuse this sort of behavior.Ecrasez l’infame0
