20 odd pages on Labour and nothing on the refugee crisis??!!
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That's a huge amount of people - I can't say I'd vote for that - for me the focus should be on keeping people safe in countries adjacent to their country of origin so they can return when the situation is safe.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Did I correctly read that Cameron is advocating deporting the refugees when they reach 18?0
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It is a huge number but I doubt it would get that high. My point being that as many as is needed. I think we have a duty to help refugees and the idea that we keep them at the first entry point into the EU seems a bit unfair to those entry point countries.
Perhaps if we could create conditions in say Turkey or Lebanon that would mean they are safe and will stay there but as I see it refugee camps can become overly large and unmanageable. I mean how can you police camps the sizes of towns without an actual police force suitable? I have heard about lawlessness in other large refugee camps and indeed the very organizations these refugees are fleeing from can operate in these large camps. This would be a major driver to move on for me if I was in their situation.
I understand the idea that it is easier to return if in the same region but how soon is it going to become safe to return? In the meantime they have to live in conditions that could become very difficult or are already so. Europe is a wealthy enough geopolitical grouping so let us take the lead for a change. If it was truly organized EU-wide then I feel the burden would land more fairly. At the moment it is a few taking the brunt of what is happening.0 -
Did I correctly read that Cameron is advocating deporting the refugees when they reach 18?
If they aren't granted asylum - if they are then they gave the right to stay.
I think the issue is with kids who come over without parents that have lived in the UK for years and suddenly at 18 straight after your A levels get deported back to say Afghanistan where they may have no family, job, friends or even know the language any more.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
It is a huge number but I doubt it would get that high. My point being that as many as is needed.
If you have an open door policy then people will come in their millions.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Perhaps but is there any evidence that will happen? IIRC Sweden announced something like an open door policy but they do not have a swarm of refugees heading their way. I believe there was a small piece on some news that the Swedish government announced that they will give asylum to any Syrian refugee and their doors are open (words to that effect at least). Perhaps Sweden is not a nice place to live for refugees and the UK is going to be more welcoming!!!
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Why do you think it would nt reach into the 100's of 1000s ?
and where would these people live, work, be educated, health care, transport? its a crazy unsustainable pie in the sky idea and a dangerous one too, at the very least bring about the rise of the extreme right wing and who knows where that might end.
these refugees need to be helped and supported but it needs to made perfectly clear the majority are expected to have to return once safe to do so.
the long term solution is diplomatic, involving at least Assad, Putin and the Iranians, as for would some Syrians accept Assad? no some wouldnt but as has been shown in S.Africa and N I anything can be overcome by talk, maybe the country might have to be split?
fwiw Putin is planning on building and manning (with over a 1000 Russians) an air base nr damascus and recent reports suggest Russion troops are now in Syria fighting anti Assad rebels, so not giving up on Assad.0 -
Firstly we have a duty to our own country and to its citizens. First and foremost in my book.
If we can help to some degree people from other countries who find themselves in a dangerous situation that is all to the good but to accept the vast, potential numbers that some are suggesting we should take is ridiculous in my book and would seriously damage our country. It's no good saying that it's our duty but you've no idea how we would manage/pay for it etc. By doing so would negatively effect the UK IMO.
Merkel, in my view is irresponsible in my view. She seems to say "all of you are welcome in Germany" then berate all countries who don't have the same approach. Sheer arrogance.
I'm not a liberal, touchy feely sort of person and you may not like my attitude but I'm saying as I see it.
The focus is currently on Syria but by opening up the floodgates we would be opening them to people from all the other dangerous places in the world. There would be no stopping it.
The distinction on this thread is on genuine asylum seekers. However, layered on top of this are all the economic migrants and illegals who continue to come.“You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”
Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut0 -
True but should that be an argument against asylum seekers? Perhaps it is better to sort out the system to find and kick out the economic migrants and illegals than a blanket ban on all in case they are among the legitimate refugees?The distinction on this thread is on genuine asylum seekers. However, layered on top of this are all the economic migrants and illegals who continue to come.
Let them in then assess cases quickly with enough resources to do so. Of course the word resources stumps my argument right away. There is no political will to provide the resources needed to truly treat each case of asylum or migration promptly and not enough resources to catch the illegals smuggled in.
So the answer remains to be extremely cold to refugees' plight and bring up the drawbridges to our little isle except for a pitiful quantity hand picked by some beauty contest for refugees. Children and women no doubt first or those with an easily verifiable sob story.
The system is broke so do not let in any asylum seekers. Fix the damn system and help the refugees properly!!!!0 -
There was an interesting bit of analysis on the BBC website from Robert Peston on this. You might think Merkel has been irresponsible, but Germany now has 1000s of young and relatively fit young people who might assimilate and be productive soon. Germany needs these people due to a low birthrate and aging population. That's the gamble, anyway.
We, however, are going to take those who couldn't leave. The sick, the elderly, kids. As has been said before, who the heck is going to look after them? Looking after kids in care is very expensive.Ecrasez l’infame0 -
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Not if Cameron sends 'em back when they're older and it's "safe".They'll pay for your pension though....Ecrasez l’infame0 -
Interesting comments recently on why the other wealthy, culturally similar, similar language, gulf states aren't taking refugees?0
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Interesting comments recently on why the other wealthy, culturally similar, similar language, gulf states aren't taking refugees?
Same reason the middle east is heavily divided. Sunni, Shiite, etc.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/04/-sp-middle-east-politics-2014-egypt-syria-palestine-iraq-gaza
Is a great guide from August last year.
On Syria:Assad, who hails from the country’s Alawite minority, was elected for a third presidential term in June. He has good reason to see things going his way in the fourth year of the war. Government forces, backed by Hezbollah and Iraqi Shia militiamen, have the upper hand, controlling Damascus and a corridor to the coast and the country’s largest city, Aleppo. But with an estimated 150,000 dead and millions of Syrian refugees abroad or displaced at home, the economy is in ruins. Isis’s embryonic Islamic caliphate, straddling the border with Iraq, is likely to continue to be a magnet for Sunni extremists. Fear of Isis has weakened western support for Assad’s enemies and boosted his image as a bulwark against extremism. The last UN envoy warned that Syria was becoming “another Somalia”.
Backs: Iran, Hezbollah, Maliki.
Against: Saudi Arabia, Gulf states, Israel.
Watch: Reduced western backing for rebels. Signs of Assad’s rehabilitation.
The divide that stops the gulf states taking on refugees is one of the reasons it's so messy and violent there to begin with.0 -
So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?0
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More I think of it, taking refugees directly from the camps in neighbouring countries to Syria is the right approach. if the camps are a safe haven, and refugees see there being a safe route from a camp to country offering asylum, it must reduce the numbers risking a perilous journey across the Med or Aegean seas. The refugees have gone on these journeys precisely because the camps were being viewed as a dead end.
Clearly something needs to be done re granting asylum for those already in Europe, but we also need to provide sufficient hope to those in the camps.0 -
So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?
I guess you already know but Moslem is actually quite an offensive term to Muslimswww.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?
I guess you already know but Moslem is actually quite an offensive term to Muslims
I didn't know but do now.0 -
First I'd heard of that too - I thought Moslem was just an outdated spelling of Muslim.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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First I'd heard of that too - I thought Moslem was just an outdated spelling of Muslim.
Me too.
Out of interest, why is it offensive?
Edit, according to this site it means something very different in Arabic.
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/524
Every day's a schoolday 0 -
So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?
I guess you already know but Moslem is actually quite an offensive term to Muslims
Why would you think I already knew? Why think I would go out of my way to use offensive terms?0 -
You didn't. But some people go out of their way looking for things to be offended by.So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?
I guess you already know but Moslem is actually quite an offensive term to Muslims
Why would you think I already knew? Why think I would go out of my way to use offensive terms?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?
I guess you already know but Moslem is actually quite an offensive term to Muslims
Why would you think I already knew? Why think I would go out of my way to use offensive terms?
Because I thought it was common knowledge and why wouldn't you just say Muslim like everyone else?www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
You didn't. But some people go out of their way looking for things to be offended by.So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?
I guess you already know but Moslem is actually quite an offensive term to Muslims
Why would you think I already knew? Why think I would go out of my way to use offensive terms?
Its not, it is an entirely different word with an offensive meaning to Muslimswww.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
I didn't say you were, it was just a general statement after previous events on BR..
You didn't. But some people go out of their way looking for things to be offended by.So the Moslem faith prevents believers helping their fellow man if he is from a different sect? Sunni can't hold out a hand to Shiite in vice versa?
I guess you already know but Moslem is actually quite an offensive term to Muslims
Why would you think I already knew? Why think I would go out of my way to use offensive terms?
Its not, it is an entirely different word with an offensive meaning to Muslims"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Looks like the welcome mat is being rolled up in Germany now and Merkel now has the audacity to start bullying other countries.“You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”
Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut0 -
Or they're closer to the point where the levels of refugees has a significant economic effect than other EU members and it wants a fairer solution for all refugees and EU member states. Merkel bullying? Or just putting Germany's points out there as she's supposed to.? If we did our share she'd have no complaints.0
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Merkel and the German people can decide to do whatever they want in this matter but if it starts to cause them problems it's their problem and it isn't for other countries to sort out their mess.“You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”
Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut0 -
It is perhaps a moral issue to take refugees, or perhaps the idea of working together fairly as a political grouping such as the EU for the common good is a problem for you?0
