20 odd pages on Labour and nothing on the refugee crisis??!!
Comments
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Yes there is a moral issue. Some poor countries in the region have taken hundreds of thousands - Jordan Lebanon and others.
Oil rich Gulf states however - 0
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/08/world/gulf-states-syrian-refugee-crisis/
It seems the Gulf states aren't legally obliged to take any so they don't. They don't appear to see a moral issue.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/09/world/welcome-syrian-refugees-countries/index.html0 -
It is perhaps a moral issue to take refugees, or perhaps the idea of working together fairly as a political grouping such as the EU for the common good is a problem for you?
Fairly? What, in the way Germany now demands. In that case an emphatic NO.“You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”
Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut0 -
Perhaps this may go some way to explain nations differing responses ti immigration of all kinds.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-the-map-that-shows-why-some-european-countries-love-asylum-seekers-10492642.html0 -
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Yes, I presume that's what Rick was alluding to in his comment about paying for pensions. Without any immigration our population would be ageing faster which brings other problems.Perhaps this may go some way to explain nations differing responses ti immigration of all kinds.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisis-the-map-that-shows-why-some-european-countries-love-asylum-seekers-10492642.html0 -
Yes there is a moral issue. Some poor countries in the region have taken hundreds of thousands - Jordan Lebanon and others.
Oil rich Gulf states however - 0
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/08/world/gulf-states-syrian-refugee-crisis/
It seems the Gulf states aren't legally obliged to take any so they don't. They don't appear to see a moral issue.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/09/world/welcome-syrian-refugees-countries/index.html
Be fair to the Saudis, they are really pulling their weight and offering to alleviate the suffering with their generous and humanitarian promise that they'll pay for some new mosques in Germany for the refugees. :roll:0 -
Looks like Germany has reached its limits on numbers:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/13/germany-to-close-borders-exit-schengen-emergency-measures
Any thoughts from those who would have no limits on numbers coming in?
Also, could this be the end of the Schengen agreement?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Yes there is a moral issue. Some poor countries in the region have taken hundreds of thousands - Jordan Lebanon and others.
Oil rich Gulf states however - 0
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/08/world/gulf-states-syrian-refugee-crisis/
It seems the Gulf states aren't legally obliged to take any so they don't. They don't appear to see a moral issue.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09/09/world/welcome-syrian-refugees-countries/index.html
I've already explained this. Those in the gulf states have had exceptionally long fueds with the sect or whatever you want to call it of the refugees. Why would the gulf take on refugees from what they deem the enemy side?
The Syrian war does not exist in a vacuum.
Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean there isn't a difference.0 -
So what you're saying is "it's OK for them to be prejudiced, hard-hearted and self-centred 'cos they don't know any better"?I've already explained this. Those in the gulf states have had exceptionally long fueds with the sect or whatever you want to call it of the refugees. Why would the gulf take on refugees from what they deem the enemy side?
The Syrian war does not exist in a vacuum.
Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean there isn't a difference.0 -
Well no. But expecting nations to take on refugees when they're taking the other side in a civil war is just stupid, as is expecting refugees to want to live there.0
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surely refugees should seek refuge wherever they can...if they are safe where they are currently why should they be allowed to seek refuge somewhere else as they dont like where they are despite it being safe and a place of refuge?
i cant just move to america or australia if i feel like it, or go and live in the local manor house just cos it take my fancy over my more modest abode.
these refugees for example are safe in turkey and serbia.
we just need to give assad all the help he needs.
syria was a relatively safe,decent prosperous place before all this bollox uprising.0 -
Dutch to house refugees in unused conference centres and..erm..unused prisons
(one suspects that the phrase "unused prison" is slightly oxymoronic* in the UK)
*Is that a word - it should be!
Given the pictures on the Hungarian border yesterday, i m not sure that i want 100's of 1000's if not millions of "refugees" in europe at all.
Im not a Camron supporter but his suggestion to take vulnerable refugees from camps within the region is a far better idea. than giving just another pull factor for basically anyone eco or genuine who want to come to EU.0 -
Yes, given the pictures, there must be plenty of women and kids left to fend for themselves somewhere.
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What I find unsettling is the non-stop coverage of these swarms of migrants who seem determined to cross whatever country they decide to on their way to the destination of their choice. It simply reinforces the viewpoint of many in the UK (myself included) that this is less about finding a safe harbour for real refugees and more about an economic migration opportunity.0
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If I'd lost everything and had to flee my homeland I'd probably want to make the best start I could in my new country. So I wouldn't stop as soon as I wasn't going to get shot, I'd aim for a safe country where I could try to build a new life for myself and my family. Wouldn't anyone?0
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...but they have found safe countries in which they can rebuild their lives, but apparently that is not enough. What they want is to also choose which country they do the rebuilding in and seem to fairly aggressive in demanding their right to get it. The old saying goes "beggars can't be choosers".0
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Syria borders Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. Not all are safe and none are capable of supporting all of them as they set about rebuilding their lives.0
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Yepp, I would agree with that. It is a shame that many of the islamic countries, which one would assume would offer much less of a culture shock/linguistic challenge to these families, are noticeable at the moment by their silence. All in it together, methinks not. There appear to be as many divisions within that culture as the traditional western ones.0
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Yepp, I would agree with that. It is a shame that many of the islamic countries, which one would assume would offer much less of a culture shock/linguistic challenge to these families, are noticeable at the moment by their silence. All in it together, methinks not. There appear to be as many divisions within that culture as the traditional western ones.
that's a bit like saying Protestants and Catholics would all just get along fine because they are both Christian. That's never caused any issues, has it?www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
So what you are saying is having large sub populations with strong cultural or religious differences can give rise to conflict?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Yepp, I would agree with that. It is a shame that many of the islamic countries, which one would assume would offer much less of a culture shock/linguistic challenge to these families, are noticeable at the moment by their silence. All in it together, methinks not. There appear to be as many divisions within that culture as the traditional western ones.
If you're talking about the Gulf states, then apart from the age-old rift between Muslims, there are plenty of cultural differences. Just one example, but I don't think that they'd be happy with a load of refugees spilling in from a Baathist country with their funny ideas about women having rights.0 -
Syria borders Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. Not all are safe and none are capable of supporting all of them as they set about rebuilding their lives.
Hasn't Turkey taken enormous numbers anyway?0 -
Yes about 2 million isn't it ? What would it take for Syria to become safe enough for the majority of refugees to return ? Are they fleeing Assad, ISIS and their allies or just the fact that they are living in a war zone ?
Given there are millions displaced they can't all have been actively fighting Assad so would an Assad victory allow the majority to return or would he then turn on the kurds and sunni majority as some kind of revenge ?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Given his propensity for crimes against humanity and war crimes I wouldn't feel safe with him in charge regardless of my background.
Him and his regime are horrendous. A choice between Assad and ISIS is no choice at all.0 -
Given his propensity for crimes against humanity and war crimes I wouldn't feel safe with him in charge regardless of my background.
Him and his regime are horrendous. A choice between Assad and ISIS is no choice at all.
I take your point but Assad hasn't been anything like as bad as ISIS - of course post civil war he may feel that he has some scores to settle. Realistically I think Assad constrained by Russia may be the best we can hope for - then a long term transition from that to a more moderate or even democratic form of government if the threat of Islamists in the region recedes.
The other thing is I think it was either on Newsnight or Breakfast that only a third to a half of migrants crossing the med were from Syria so even if that situation could be resolved clearly the issue of people wanting to come to Europe that Europe would rather did not is not going to go away.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Assad is wanted #1 for crimes against humanity and war crimes. The UN say they have a stronger case for him than any other living leader past & present.
He has over 200,000 political prisoners and has personally sanctioned massacres that range in the 10s if not 100s of thousands. He uses chemical weapons on his own people. He doesn't put it on YouTube.
I don't think debating the relative evil of Assad or ISID achieves anything. Neither are regimes which anyone should want or be forced to contemplate.0 -
I picked up on this little point during Breakfast this morning. It was mentioned to be just over 1/3.The other thing is I think it was either on Newsnight or Breakfast that only a third to a half of migrants crossing the med were from Syria so even if that situation could be resolved clearly the issue of people wanting to come to Europe that Europe would rather did not is not going to go away.
Where are the other 2/3 coming from?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I picked up on this little point during Breakfast this morning. It was mentioned to be just over 1/3.The other thing is I think it was either on Newsnight or Breakfast that only a third to a half of migrants crossing the med were from Syria so even if that situation could be resolved clearly the issue of people wanting to come to Europe that Europe would rather did not is not going to go away.
Where are the other 2/3 coming from?
I'd imagine that quite a few are coming from Iraq and Afghanistan.0 -
Eurostat are saying only 20% are Syrians. The pro-immigrant media are conning us.“You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”
Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut0
