Disc brakes in the Pro ranks.

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Comments

  • giropaul
    giropaul Posts: 414
    Crampeur wrote:
    Feel sorry for Roompot - their mechanics will have a lot of work to do before GP de Denain tomorrow.

    Good decision though.
    Actually, despite all the PR Roompot have already been seen on proper rim brakes. The manufacturers who seem intent on imposing another in- needed " innovation" won't be happy .
  • Crampeur
    Crampeur Posts: 1,065
    giropaul wrote:
    Crampeur wrote:
    Feel sorry for Roompot - their mechanics will have a lot of work to do before GP de Denain tomorrow.

    Good decision though.
    Actually, despite all the PR Roompot have already been seen on proper rim brakes. The manufacturers who seem intent on imposing another in- needed " innovation" won't be happy .

    AFAIK it was only Pieter Weening who was riding rim brakes, although feel free to prove me wrong!
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    Can anyone point me to where the UCI officially suspended this disc-brake trial? Doesn’t sound in line with its recent kowtowing to the bicycle manufacturers.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    ddraver wrote:
    So long as the knee jerks in the way one wants eh?

    I'm sure the UCI haven't just read Ventoso's letter and said "By God, he's right!"

    I think in this instance I'm happy to respect the opinion of people who actually do the job and live with the consequences.

    To be clear, the only issue I have with discs in bunch racing is safety. The rest, neutral service etc, is surmountable. I'm sure this is too, but the UCI have pressed pause until it can be addressed.

    I've no problem with disc brakes on anyone's personal bike. Just for bunch racing.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    ideology aside (I use discs, but I think they are pointless in races), how hard is it, technologically, to round off the edges of the rotors? It's a simple machining operation that shouldn't add much cost to the part at all.
    I would have thought they'd do it before introducing discs in the peloton
    left the forum March 2023
  • redvision
    redvision Posts: 2,958
    OnYourRight wrote:
    Can anyone point me to where the UCI officially suspended this disc-brake trial? Doesn’t sound in line with its recent kowtowing to the bicycle manufacturers.

    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/rac ... ing-220931

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-sus ... so-injury/

    Horrible incident has led to this and i wish him a speedy recovery. This said, will it be hard for the discs to be redesigned?
    I have never ridden them so am not sure, but after all the investment manufacturers have put in to the development you have to assume that they won't simply accept the suspension and give up on them. :?
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    I saw the references to Procycling.no. Seems an odd way to announce a rule change. I suspect we’ll hear a more nuanced announcement from the UCI before long.

    Disc brakes have already taken off among the new-bike-once-a-year crowd. Do the manufacturers really need pro racers to push them?

    The power that mere bicycle manufacturers have over pro cycling has become problematic, and not just in this senseless push to discs.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    I hope that the rise of the "gravel scene" means that people are finally realising that what Pro's use might not be ideal for us too. Certainly most of my friends that "ride gravel" just meant they ride on the road a bit slower and actually enjoy the ride rather than using it as a form of self harm.

    Certainly Shimano have taken a a different approach by introducing disks to Ultegra, 105 and Tiagra before making a DuraAce version (next model year apparently)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Let's be clear; it was only novelty teams who wouldn't get any publicity otherwise who used them, so no great loss.
    _
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Rick of course does not get any of what i wrote...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    For now. But at some point, all teams will be using them. So the manufacturers do need to make discs work better for racing.

    One thing they could do is make the discs round, reducing sharp edges. There is no significant cooling advantage to the current overwrought designs. Shimano and the rest seem to be labouring under the notion that they can improve aesthetically on a circle.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    It'll be a while once the weight limit is removed.
    _
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    OnYourRight wrote:
    For now. But at some point, all teams will be using them. So the manufacturers do need to make discs work better for racing.

    Teams and riders do seem to be fairly reluctant to take them up, however.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    OnYourRight wrote:
    One thing they could do is make the discs round, reducing sharp edges. There is no significant cooling advantage to the current overwrought designs. Shimano and the rest seem to be labouring under the notion that they can improve aesthetically on a circle.


    As I said above... yes, it's not abig deal
    left the forum March 2023
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    I think it's more than just discs.

    If you introduce discs, then you can get rid of tubular tyres and go tubeless. Tubular tyreds had their days, they are unpopular among amateurs and the industry would rather get rid of them and give the PROs the same equipment Joe Average can buy in a shop and ride with confidence
    left the forum March 2023
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    Ugo: you’re talking about softening the edges (bevelling them or whatever). Which sounds like a good idea to me. I’m talking about making the discs look circular from the side, so they’re more elegant and have no points to dig into flesh.

    At the moment, road discs look like something that belongs on a mountain bike, partly because they’re pointlessly over-designed. Making them circular would better suit the road aesthetic (or what’s left of it after the carbon revolution).
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    In the end, does it matter? So the pros don't use disc brakes because they tend to crash in massive heaps on a regular basis. Fair play. Doesn't really change their application for the rest of us.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    In the end, does it matter? So the pros don't use disc brakes because they tend to crash in massive heaps on a regular basis. Fair play. Doesn't really change their application for the rest of us.

    This is exactly my outlook on the matter.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    For now. But at some point, all teams will be using them. So the manufacturers do need to make discs work better for racing.

    Teams and riders do seem to be fairly reluctant to take them up, however.

    I wonder if that would ve changed with a Dura Ace version - Not many pro's on Ultegra anything...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    ddraver wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    For now. But at some point, all teams will be using them. So the manufacturers do need to make discs work better for racing.

    Teams and riders do seem to be fairly reluctant to take them up, however.

    I wonder if that would ve changed with a Dura Ace version - Not many pro's on Ultegra anything...

    Topsport are on Ultegra everything. At least they were last year.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    In the end, does it matter? So the pros don't use disc brakes because they tend to crash in massive heaps on a regular basis. Fair play. Doesn't really change their application for the rest of us.

    This is exactly my outlook on the matter.

    The point is that technology needs to advance to exist. Rim brake technology has not moved on since the late 90s. Shimano cannot justify big money on rim brakes... Hydraulic rim brakes did not catch.
    PRO races are there to showcase new equipment, if they don't use what's new and exciting in the shop, what' the point in having sponsors? We might as well disjoin the UCI from the manufacturers and everyone rides what he wants within the rules.

    It's not that hard to understand why there is a push for discs in the peloton, rightly or wrongly
    left the forum March 2023
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    For now. But at some point, all teams will be using them. So the manufacturers do need to make discs work better for racing.

    Teams and riders do seem to be fairly reluctant to take them up, however.

    I wonder if that would ve changed with a Dura Ace version - Not many pro's on Ultegra anything...

    Topsport are on Ultegra everything. At least they were last year.

    You need to pay more tax! ;)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PRO races are there to showcase new equipment, if they don't use what's new and exciting in the shop, what' the point in having sponsors?
    Ideally the sponsors would not be bicycle manufacturers. That would remove this conflict of interest and let the racing concentrate on the racing rather than technology churn.
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    It seems the PROs don't want them as they feel they weren't consulted on their introduction. So now they're a bit pissed at this snub and have started looking for evidence that they're dangerous.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    OnYourRight wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PRO races are there to showcase new equipment, if they don't use what's new and exciting in the shop, what' the point in having sponsors?
    Ideally the sponsors would not be bicycle manufacturers. That would remove this conflict of interest and let the racing concentrate on the racing rather than technology churn.

    That's unthinkable... the two worlds feed on each other. If Mercedes did not benefit from the work they do in Formula 1, why would they develop new technology at all?
    left the forum March 2023
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PRO races are there to showcase new equipment, if they don't use what's new and exciting in the shop, what' the point in having sponsors?
    Ideally the sponsors would not be bicycle manufacturers. That would remove this conflict of interest and let the racing concentrate on the racing rather than technology churn.

    That's unthinkable... the two worlds feed on each other. If Mercedes did not benefit from the work they do in Formula 1, why would they develop new technology at all?

    Yeah. Marketing innit.
    _
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    PRO races are there to showcase new equipment, if they don't use what's new and exciting in the shop, what' the point in having sponsors?
    Ideally the sponsors would not be bicycle manufacturers. That would remove this conflict of interest and let the racing concentrate on the racing rather than technology churn.

    That's unthinkable... the two worlds feed on each other. If Mercedes did not benefit from the work they do in Formula 1, why would they develop new technology at all?

    Yeah. Marketing innit.

    I can't see the PRO tour being sustainable without sponsors from the bicycle manufacturers, can you?
    left the forum March 2023
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Sure. Riders will just be paid less.
    _
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,311
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Sure. Riders will just be paid less.

    It's not the point. Why would a cement manufacturer put money in a sport where not even the bicycle manufacturers put money? It would just lose credibility. Less money also menas fewer doping controls, which in turn will revert to the years where it was not much different from Wrestling or Body building, just a semi-amateur circus for freaks
    left the forum March 2023
  • onyourright
    onyourright Posts: 509
    If pro cycling was popular enough, the bicycle manufacturers wouldn’t be able to compete with the likes of Coca-Cola, AXA, and Volkswagen for sponsoring teams. They’d be priced out. That would be a good thing. (Of course it is also unimaginable at present.)

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