Disc brakes in the Pro ranks.

prawny

Is it clean? I ripped my arm open once on a pile of reinforced concrete, the wound was very similar.

I have a morbid interest in crash investigation, if anyone is wondering why I've stopped lurking for a bit :oops:

prawny

ddraver wrote:

prawny wrote:

I'm not saying he's made it up, but he says himself he didn't know it had happened when he crashed into the back of the guy in front, how can he be sure it was a disc that did the damage, and if it did, fair enough, but how. I've just realised it was his left leg too, that's confused me even more.

A disc is no more exposed than cassette teeth, is is possible the cassette did it?

It doesnt make a lot of sense to me either...

The injury or my ramblings?

ddraver

the injury. Not least because I can't quite see how ripping your knee open on a disk and all the other bits of bike might not sting a tad

http://road.cc/content/tech-news/186146 ... es-peloton

onyourright

Incredible! So now he’s lying about not initially noticing it?

ddraver

he appears to be lying (or at least MASSIVELY assuming) about Maes...

When my stem made a very effective cheese slicer to my shin I sure as sugar noticed straight away. Last time I cried I think!

disgruntledgoat

OnYourRight wrote:

Eddy Merckx on discs:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/ ... ing_402468

Damn it. I was at that and was going to write it up for PC tonight!

dinyull

Has anyone seen the injury? Pic's were knocking about on twitter last night.

From what I could tell it looked pretty "clean", you'd assume a disc could cause that problem.

Also, isn't this "it's his left leg so impossible to hit the disc" argument nonsense? I'd think it's safe to say if you hit someone at 30+kph that your leg will go where the force takes it, so easily hooked over the bike in fronts wheel as you've ploughed into the back of him.

prawny

I'd not read the road.cc piece (it being the cycling equivalent of the sun) I'm quite glad I'm not the only one with doubts.

That said, I'm not sure discs are that useful in pro racing, or even for leisure use. I've got them on my commuter and I think they're great, but I was getting through a set of swissstop greens in 2 months commuting, the same would last 18 months+ when I was just riding for fun.

dinyull

ddraver wrote:

he appears to be lying (or at least MASSIVELY assuming) about Maes...

When my stem made a very effective cheese slicer to my shin I sure as sugar noticed straight away. Last time I cried I think!

Without wanting to get into "that" argument, I'd assume many a rider to be on painkillers for a race like Roubaix. And then there's adrenalin - I've played football on seriously damaged ankle ligaments that required a trip to a+e a few hours later.

Maes has said he doesn't know if his injures was disc related.

The_Boy

prawny wrote:

Is it clean?

Compared to the (much less severe) scars on the exterior of my right calf, yes. And I have no idea how the exterior of my leg came to be cut open by my cassette either.

onyourright

How could the outside of your leg be cut by your cassette? Liar!

TheBigBean

I think this subject is an easy one, imagine your bare chin and choose a part of the bike you would least want to kick. So, for me, it would be 1. big chain ring 2. disc brakes 3. rear cassette.

Then decide how easy it would be to do this. Big chain ring - very hard it has a chain on it, rear cassette - easier, but it would take some delicate pre-kick arranging to avoid the derailleur and spokes, finally the disc brake - very easy.

Lastly, assess how much utility each of those components contributes to bikes and bike races. I think gears add something whereas disc brakes really don't to a pro race.

dodgy

prawny wrote:

I'd not read the road.cc piece (it being the cycling equivalent of the sun) I'm quite glad I'm not the only one with doubts.

That said, I'm not sure discs are that useful in pro racing, or even for leisure use. I've got them on my commuter and I think they're great, but I was getting through a set of swissstop greens in 2 months commuting, the same would last 18 months+ when I was just riding for fun.

I'd rather replace pads than replace the rim. I say if you're paying for your own kit, i.e. not sponsored, discs make a lot of sense. I didn't buy a disc equipped bike for the performance benefit, though that's a nice bonus, it's for maintenance and the peace of mind that I'm not machining away a structural part of the bike every time I brake.

It's even worse when you factor in that some point, your rims are worn enough to consider checking them very carefully with a dental gauge or something similar every few rides. I've been through that, pita. Though of course there are riders out there right now who have no idea if their rims are too worn for safe use...It's simply never occurred to them.

markhewitt1978

OK, a disc is better in the rain. But if the UCI rules said ‘carbon wheels with aluminum rims,’ it would solve everything.”

He may have a point! Are disc brakes only to 'solve' the problem of poor braking on carbon rims, which could itself just be solved by mandating aluminium rims?

prawny

Discs are a lot better than Alu rims wet or dry. And my discs are pretty shoddy.

@dodgy - I agree if you're putting that many miles in, maybe I'm being hard on leisure riders, my mates have multiple new bikes each year, there's no way they're getting through rims, but appreciate others are more committed.

markhewitt1978

prawny wrote:

@dodgy - I agree if you're putting that many miles in, maybe I'm being hard on leisure riders, my mates have multiple new bikes each year, there's no way they're getting through rims, but appreciate others are more committed.

You've made me think about checking my rims now as my RS80s are about three years old.

rick_chasey

markhewitt1978 wrote:

OK, a disc is better in the rain. But if the UCI rules said ‘carbon wheels with aluminum rims,’ it would solve everything.”

He may have a point! Are disc brakes only to 'solve' the problem of poor braking on carbon rims, which could itself just be solved by mandating aluminium rims?

They're mainly solving the "what creative ways can we get the bike up to 6.8kilos?" problem.

prawny

markhewitt1978 wrote:

prawny wrote:

@dodgy - I agree if you're putting that many miles in, maybe I'm being hard on leisure riders, my mates have multiple new bikes each year, there's no way they're getting through rims, but appreciate others are more committed.

You've made me think about checking my rims now as my RS80s are about three years old.

I switched to discs because the R501s I bought on Black Friday last year were getting a definite curve in the braking surface after 3 months commuting. But that was in all weathers and about 2500 miles, I tripled the mileage my old bike had done in 4 months commuting.

ugo.santalucia

dodgy wrote:

prawny wrote:

I'd not read the road.cc piece (it being the cycling equivalent of the sun) I'm quite glad I'm not the only one with doubts.

That said, I'm not sure discs are that useful in pro racing, or even for leisure use. I've got them on my commuter and I think they're great, but I was getting through a set of swissstop greens in 2 months commuting, the same would last 18 months+ when I was just riding for fun.

I'd rather replace pads than replace the rim. I say if you're paying for your own kit, i.e. not sponsored, discs make a lot of sense. I didn't buy a disc equipped bike for the performance benefit, though that's a nice bonus, it's for maintenance and the peace of mind that I'm not machining away a structural part of the bike every time I brake.

It's even worse when you factor in that some point, your rims are worn enough to consider checking them very carefully with a dental gauge or something similar every few rides. I've been through that, pita. Though of course there are riders out there right now who have no idea if their rims are too worn for safe use...It's simply never occurred to them.

Quite nice that my HED plus rims, which are two years old are in fact brand new... they've done nearly 15,000 miles, I suspect I would have gone through 2 sets of them already, at an extra cost of about half a grand.
If you do the miles, discs make total sense

mercia_man

Disc brakes are great for all-weather commuting. But why are disc brake fans so keen for reluctant pros to use them in road races?

Alex99

markhewitt1978 wrote:

OK, a disc is better in the rain. But if the UCI rules said ‘carbon wheels with aluminum rims,’ it would solve everything.”

He may have a point! Are disc brakes only to 'solve' the problem of poor braking on carbon rims, which could itself just be solved by mandating aluminium rims?

Would it be a good thing to make more rules for racing bikes that kept things safe and relatively cheap? I would say yes. Level the field, make the sport less equipment obsessed and accessible. Disk wheels and deep rim carbon jobbies, I would ban. That is £1000 straight away that you don't have to spend to be competitive.

dodgy

Mercia Man wrote:

Disc brakes are great for all-weather commuting. But why are disc brake fans so keen for reluctant pros to use them in road races?

I'm a disc brake fan, but I couldn't care less if the Pros use them or not. Let the teams decide themselves, eventually a trend will surface and they'll have the data to determine if discs are 'better' for pros in some races and maybe not for others.

markhewitt1978

Alex99 wrote:

Would it be a good thing to make more rules for racing bikes that kept things safe and relatively cheap? I would say yes. Level the field, make the sport less equipment obsessed and accessible. Disk wheels and deep rim carbon jobbies, I would ban. That is £1000 straight away that you don't have to spend to be competitive.

Pro bikes aren't that expensive; as sports equipment goes. Of course it goes back the manufacturer argument again. You easily rule that all pro bikes must be shallow rim with alu braking surfaces, but that doesn't sell product.

ugo.santalucia

It's not about whetehr they should use them or not... it's whetehr they should be allowed to use them... be forced to use them is a different matter altogether

prawny

The only reason I'd like discs to be used in pro racing so that better, lighter brakes are developed, then the tech trickles down to a level I can afford. I doubt if pros were forced to use downtube shifters I wouldn't have my nice cheap Tiagra shifters.

If the pro's don't use them we'll be stuck with what we've got largely. Which is ok, but could be better.

markhewitt1978

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's not about whetehr they should use them or not... it's whetehr they should be allowed to use them... be forced to use them is a different matter altogether

The problem is they don't have the choice; well not the riders anyway. The decision will be made at the team level, and most likely they'll be doing what the sponsors want.

ugo.santalucia

markhewitt1978 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's not about whetehr they should use them or not... it's whetehr they should be allowed to use them... be forced to use them is a different matter altogether

The problem is they don't have the choice; well not the riders anyway. The decision will be made at the team level, and most likely they'll be doing what the sponsors want.

They are paid... do you do what you want at work or you are forced to compromise?

r0bh

ugo.santalucia wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's not about whetehr they should use them or not... it's whetehr they should be allowed to use them... be forced to use them is a different matter altogether

The problem is they don't have the choice; well not the riders anyway. The decision will be made at the team level, and most likely they'll be doing what the sponsors want.

They are paid... do you do what you want at work or you are forced to compromise?

Would you be happy if at work you were forced to do something you considered dangerous?

RichN95.

They are paid... do you do what you want at work or you are forced to compromise?

I expect a certain level of health and safety though. You seem to have the attitudes to employees of a 19th century industrialist.

mechanism

Would you say that clincher tyre development has been held back by their limited use in professional racing?