Are sky clean or not?
Comments
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The huge irony being that once you take Froome out of the equation, the remain podium spots (including the possible first step) looks destined to go to the guy who spends weeks in a far, far more remote spot than Tenerife and Alejandro Valverde, yet they receive zero attention or insinuation.
They must be laughing all the way to the bank. (not sure which one in Valverde's case)"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
You mean you take all the fun out of it. Love not knowing quite what will come round that next corner.Someone mentioned Sagan not looking at stages beforehand, did anyone just see on the highlights he was looking at a map of the route profile today during the actual stage?
I can't believe a professional rider can be so under-prepared, I mean bloody hell when I plan a long ride or do the odd sportive I know the profile off by heart before I get on the bike. Every climb, feed point etc. Unbelievable.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19656112#p19656112]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:The huge irony being that once you take Froome out of the equation, the remain podium spots (including the possible first step) looks destined to go to the guy who spends weeks in a far, far more remote spot than Tenerife and Alejandro Valverde, yet they receive zero attention or insinuation.
They must be laughing all the way to the bank. (not sure which one in Valverde's case)
Valverde has a decade worth of pedigree on his side and Quintana values his family over some corporate preparation.Contador is the Greatest0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19656112#p19656112]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:The huge irony being that once you take Froome out of the equation, the remain podium spots (including the possible first step) looks destined to go to the guy who spends weeks in a far, far more remote spot than Tenerife and Alejandro Valverde, yet they receive zero attention or insinuation.
They must be laughing all the way to the bank. (not sure which one in Valverde's case)
Valverde has a decade worth of pedigree on his side and Quintana values his family over some corporate preparation.
Valverde also has a 2 years bang to rights ban that he tried everything to weasel his way out of and grew up at Kelme. I think he's probably doing it the right way now but he's not a guy I have any respect for.
If Quintana is filling in his whereabouts form, I've no problem where he trains."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Here's a week in cycling media world:
Tuesday: Make veiled accusations and complain about loss of trust
Wednesday: Interview ex-Festina 'coach'
Thursday: Interview Lance Armstrong
Friday: Interview Laurent Jalabert
Saturday: Interview Michael Rasmussen
Sunday: Make veiled accusations and complain about loss of trust - now with quotes from the above
Their scrambling to get quotes from the very people would brought about the loss of trust is like getting marriage guidance counselling from the man who's been screwing your wife.
this is annoying that these guys chip in this way.. in any debate on the issue never mind being forefront."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I think the huge overlap between British Cycling and Team Sky gives me confidence that they are clean. What they have got is probably the best management, sports scientist, engineers, coaches, (I.e. The marginal gains philosophy) etc as well as proper recruitment strategy, which sets them apart from the other teams. Plus the repercussions of not being clean would resonate not just through Team Sky but also British cycling,so the risks are too high for them to even consider it. Froome just has bags of talent and heart and an excellent team supporting him.
In short, I believe they are clean!
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19656112#p19656112]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:The huge irony being that once you take Froome out of the equation, the remain podium spots (including the possible first step) looks destined to go to the guy who spends weeks in a far, far more remote spot than Tenerife and Alejandro Valverde, yet they receive zero attention or insinuation.
They must be laughing all the way to the bank. (not sure which one in Valverde's case)
Valverde has a decade worth of pedigree on his side and Quintana values his family over some corporate preparation.
Valverde is also a filthy dirty doper but don't let that stop you.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
Quintana valuing his family is somewhat beside the point though - if all the top riders were being treated like Froome, it would be so incredibly easy for the usual suspects on Twitter to present his habit of spending so much time in Colombia as being almost proof he was up to no good and kick up a storm about it, whatever his stated reasons were. Can you imagine the reaction if Froome had a habit of disappearing off into the hills of Kenya for months each year???[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19656112#p19656112]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:The huge irony being that once you take Froome out of the equation, the remain podium spots (including the possible first step) looks destined to go to the guy who spends weeks in a far, far more remote spot than Tenerife and Alejandro Valverde, yet they receive zero attention or insinuation.
They must be laughing all the way to the bank. (not sure which one in Valverde's case)
Valverde has a decade worth of pedigree on his side and Quintana values his family over some corporate preparation.
IWhen you look at the relative lack of attention directed towards the other GC riders (even those with past doping violations like Valverde) and compare that to the treatment Sky receive, you can really see how obsessed certain people are with that team.0 -
Quintana valuing his family is somewhat beside the point though - if all the top riders were being treated like Froome, it would be so incredibly easy for the usual suspects on Twitter to present his habit of spending so much time in Colombia as being almost proof he was up to no good and kick up a storm about it, whatever his stated reasons were. Can you imagine the reaction if Froome had a habit of disappearing off into the hills of Kenya for months each year???[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19656112#p19656112]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:The huge irony being that once you take Froome out of the equation, the remain podium spots (including the possible first step) looks destined to go to the guy who spends weeks in a far, far more remote spot than Tenerife and Alejandro Valverde, yet they receive zero attention or insinuation.
They must be laughing all the way to the bank. (not sure which one in Valverde's case)
Valverde has a decade worth of pedigree on his side and Quintana values his family over some corporate preparation.
IWhen you look at the relative lack of attention directed towards the other GC riders (even those with past doping violations like Valverde) and compare that to the treatment Sky receive, you can really see how obsessed certain people are with that team.
It'd incredibly sad the anti-Sky hatred.0 -
Today's Time (pay walled)
Laurent Jalabert, speaking on television, said that Froome’s victory on Tuesday was “uncomfortable to watch”
So says Jalabert a mediocre rider whose 1998 blood sample subsequently tested positive for EPO :roll:0 -
its contextual thou... its not surprising there is suspicion given the perceived parallels with Lance
remember Lance in 99,
no way is he dirty because a cancer survivor would never get on the gear having been through etc, then there was he is lighter now post chemo explanation (true or not the idea was out there), the high cadence carmichael sports guru training explanation. He was really presented as the clean thing post the festina affair.
in both instances the teams and "new" ethos came post scandal and have a load of training technical style explanations, Some in skys case some seem to hold water or at least seem more detailed. Froome obviously Is lighter where as Lance's weight loss is less impressive ...but the point is in both cases they were heralded as a new age of clean cycling with some sort of technical back story explanation.
there were al sorts of garbage spouted around 99, 00 about how lance had transformed. So I suppose in many journo's mind why should they buy the sky marginal gains story....I was kinda blown away and bought it in 99 but less so from 2001 on...looking back.
the main reason why i thought lance was clean in 99 was the cancer survivor stuff..I just didn't see such a guy getting into all that stuff after that. though it appears the links between PEDs and cancer are somewhat tenuous in the most part... some of the new gene expression drugs (AICAR) seem somewhat dangerous thou when it come to cancer. ..... but the point is I was wrong at the time (didn't stay fooled too long mind)
being wrong is not something you forget quickly so I can kinda understand it that characters get on one.... BUT the caveat here is there are I suspect numerous motives for promoting suspicion. which is kinda depressing. be it self promotion or a desire to not have ones legacy undermined etc, etc. these motives are mixed in with the more innocent general weariness and suspicion.
its ironic to think if sky are clean...lets say they are.... are having to carry the burden of all the previous generations . sins of the fathers. they are going to just have to deal with it. I'm concerned something bad happens like froome is pushed off his bike"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Oh no, paragon of morality Rasmussen at it too:
http://www.tv2.no/2015/07/18/sport/7169108
from Google translate:
Before the start of today's Tour de France stage took Peter Kennaugh opportunity to great wines Michael Rasmussen.
For the first time since the infamous 2007's Michael Rasmussen back in the Tour de France - but this time only as a spectator. Nevertheless, it has attracted great attention, and the Dane was surrounded by the press ahead of Team Sky's bus before the start.
Here come Team Sky rider Peter Kennaugh also up to him, and it was not special kind words, the British rider had left for Michael Rasmussen.
A few days earlier had Michael Rasmussen namely made a tweet in which he wrote that track rider Geraint Thomas overtook the Colombian climb Nairo Quintana.
Kennaugh questioned what he really meant by tweeted, but Rasmussen pointed out that he just was impressed with Thomas. The buyer Kennaugh not so easy.
"You must be careful what you say. People read things, "said Peter Kennaugh according TV2 Norway with regard to that Rasmussen had insinuated that Thomas makes use of doping.
"I, I am aware of, but people must believe that they will," was the cool response from Michael Rasmussen.
"So that's what you believe (that Thomas is doped, ed.)," Said Kennaugh subsequently.
"I just said that I think it was very impressive. Have I even climbed into the mountains, "said Rasmussen.
"Yes, but you were high on something (doping, ed.). You are a shame. A pity, "finished Kennaugh before he drove to the start.
Michael Rasmussen then went quiet and unaffected back to an interview with TV2 Norway.Giant Trance X 2010
Specialized Tricross Sport
My Dad's old racer
Trek Marlin 29er 20120 -
I doped. Ergo they doped.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0
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***Warning: Do not read if religiously offended. It's not my intention *****
I saw a poster on twitter ranging against Sky and Froome saying that it was impossible and his transformation is not credible.
And his profile said 'I have devoted my life to Jesus Christ'
So impossible : 6.1 W/kg on a climb. Possible: Virgin Birth
Not credible transformation: Clueless but highly rated raw talent to world beater. Credible transformation: Dead on Friday, Alive on SundayTwitter: @RichN950 -
***Warning: Do not read if religiously offended. It's not my intention *****
I saw a poster on twitter ranging against Sky and Froome saying that it was impossible and his transformation is not credible.
And his profile said 'I have devoted my life to Jesus Christ'
So impossible : 6.1 W/kg on a climb. Possible: Virgin Birth
Not credible transformation: Clueless but highly rated raw talent to world beater. Credible transformation: Dead on Friday, Alive on Sunday
It''s fine. The poster is clearly not to bothered with evidence.
I'm becoming increasingly baffled about what these people want here.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
***Warning: Do not read if religiously offended. It's not my intention *****
I saw a poster on twitter ranging against Sky and Froome saying that it was impossible and his transformation is not credible.
And his profile said 'I have devoted my life to Jesus Christ'
So impossible : 6.1 W/kg on a climb. Possible: Virgin Birth
Not credible transformation: Clueless but highly rated raw talent to world beater. Credible transformation: Dead on Friday, Alive on Sunday
It''s fine. The poster is clearly not to bothered with evidence.
I'm becoming increasingly baffled about what these people want here.
The way it's been put in many instances is that Froome must be doping, and how can Sky be so strong. Conveniently forgetting that there are far more suspect riders in the top 10.
The outtake of that is that Sky are doping, a la Lance, and no one else is.0 -
Today's Time (pay walled)
Laurent Jalabert, speaking on television, said that Froome’s victory on Tuesday was “uncomfortable to watch”
So says Jalabert a mediocre rider whose 1998 blood sample subsequently tested positive for EPO :roll:
mediocre????????? :shock:0 -
the outrage that anyone could even think about daring to claim sky may be doping feels almost the same as the legions of Armstrong fans banging on about how Lance couldn't because he's a hero to so many and he nearly lost his life why would he risk it and he's them most tested and never been caught etc etc
Dodgy TUE
Mountain train
brutal in the mountain finishes
minutes ahead of his nearest competitors
had the TV pundits blowing smoke up his and the teams arse
but to be fair there are NO similarities! move along nothing to see here.............0 -
An additional reason for the Froome frenzy is that if he is clean, their world would fall apart. A clean rider can't beat this field of dopers....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0
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Provide some proof they are doping and millions will believe youthe outrage that anyone could even think about daring to claim sky may be doping feels almost the same as the legions of Armstrong fans banging on about how Lance couldn't because he's a hero to so many and he nearly lost his life why would he risk it and he's them most tested and never been caught etc etc
Dodgy TUE
Mountain train
brutal in the mountain finishes
minutes ahead of his nearest competitors
had the TV pundits blowing smoke up his and the teams ars*
but to be fair there are NO similarities! move along nothing to see here.............
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You mean you take all the fun out of it. Love not knowing quite what will come round that next corner.Someone mentioned Sagan not looking at stages beforehand, did anyone just see on the highlights he was looking at a map of the route profile today during the actual stage?
I can't believe a professional rider can be so under-prepared, I mean bloody hell when I plan a long ride or do the odd sportive I know the profile off by heart before I get on the bike. Every climb, feed point etc. Unbelievable.
No, because looking at a profile is hardly viewing the route on google street view is it!
Someone made the point earlier that Sky are better prepared than other teams, and it was questioned - but do you think a professional rider should need to look at a route profile when they're already riding the stage? If he had ideas of winning (which he clearly did as he gave it a go) he should have known that parcours inside out before he got on the bike.0 -
if all the other riders are doping little s*its then why do you watch it? And why are you personally affronted?
its a funny world0 -
the outrage that anyone could even think about daring to claim sky may be doping feels almost the same as the legions of Armstrong fans banging on about how Lance couldn't because he's a hero to so many and he nearly lost his life why would he risk it and he's them most tested and never been caught etc etc
Dodgy TUE
Mountain train
brutal in the mountain finishes
minutes ahead of his nearest competitors
had the TV pundits blowing smoke up his and the teams ars*
but to be fair there are NO similarities! move along nothing to see here.............
But there is a key difference. There was a substantial body of evidence they were actually doping.
Is the expectation that clean cycling would look nothing like what Armstrong did? Because he did a lot of the right things in addition to the doping.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
if all the other riders are doping little s*its then why do you watch it? And why are you personally affronted?
its a funny world
I don't think that's the point he was making. According to places like the clinic, all the riders are cheating, hence you can't possibly win clean. Some are better than others because they have better doping programs, not because they're better riders. Sky win clean - impossible.
Obviously the probability they're missing is that a very high percentage of the peloton is clean, with the odd doper in there still.
It baffles me as to what they would expect to see in a clean race. Everyone finishing at the same time? Nobody attacking at all on the mountains? Nobody beating Armstrong's time up a mountain from 2002? (ignoring the fact said mountain was halfway through a stage with 2 more to come and the latest effort was a MTF and the only climb of the day).
It is a funny world when people have absolutely zero evidence yet blindly believe something no matter what.0 -
Dodgy TUE - legitimately obtained in Froome's case, not in response to a positive test
Mountain train - even in a 100% clean sport, this would be the sensible tactic for a rich team
brutal in the mountain finishes - again, even in a clean sport someone has to win
minutes ahead of his nearest competitors - three minutes ahead of Quintana, two of which came from echelons. Tony Gallopin is in the top ten.
had the TV pundits blowing smoke up his and the teams ars* - that's TV. As Ned Boulting has said in the past, it's one part salesmanship. They are providing entertainment, they are not Panorama.
but to be fair there are NO similarities! move along nothing to see here.............
I've put responses in red. However, I feel you have missed to more interesting comparisons between Froome and Armstrong. In future please refer to the following:
Killer diseases: Cancer and bilharzia (even though Froome's was hardly life threatening). Feel free to ask if they were made up
Training in Tenerife: Don't in anyway acknowledge that it's a near perfect training location
A strong bond with their mother: Here you can use that bit about Freud you read on Wikipedia.Twitter: @RichN950 -
it would be a funnier world if previous experience didn't inform current expectation.0
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***Warning: Do not read if religiously offended. It's not my intention *****
I saw a poster on twitter ranging against Sky and Froome saying that it was impossible and his transformation is not credible.
And his profile said 'I have devoted my life to Jesus Christ'
So impossible : 6.1 W/kg on a climb. Possible: Virgin Birth
Not credible transformation: Clueless but highly rated raw talent to world beater. Credible transformation: Dead on Friday, Alive on Sunday
Low blow. Had more respect for you.Contador is the Greatest0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19656126#p19656126]disgruntledgoat[/url] wrote:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19656112#p19656112]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:The huge irony being that once you take Froome out of the equation, the remain podium spots (including the possible first step) looks destined to go to the guy who spends weeks in a far, far more remote spot than Tenerife and Alejandro Valverde, yet they receive zero attention or insinuation.
They must be laughing all the way to the bank. (not sure which one in Valverde's case)
Valverde has a decade worth of pedigree on his side and Quintana values his family over some corporate preparation.
Valverde also has a 2 years bang to rights ban that he tried everything to weasel his way out of and grew up at Kelme. I think he's probably doing it the right way now but he's not a guy I have any respect for.
If Quintana is filling in his whereabouts form, I've no problem where he trains.
Neither have I.
However, as we know, Sky using Tenerife as a training base to dope, because it is somehow beyond the reach of testers, is one of the cornerstones of the bullsh*t, sorry evidence, that detractors rely on.
Hence, the Colombian cols comparison."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
***Warning: Do not read if religiously offended. It's not my intention *****
I saw a poster on twitter ranging against Sky and Froome saying that it was impossible and his transformation is not credible.
And his profile said 'I have devoted my life to Jesus Christ'
So impossible : 6.1 W/kg on a climb. Possible: Virgin Birth
Not credible transformation: Clueless but highly rated raw talent to world beater. Credible transformation: Dead on Friday, Alive on Sunday
Low blow. Had more respect for you.
I put a warning at the beginning.
I'm an atheist who finds religion ridiculous - maybe I'm wrong. But I find it bizarre that someone can doubt something easily explainable yet devote their life to (in my mind) the ludicrous and impossible.Twitter: @RichN950 -
***Warning: Do not read if religiously offended. It's not my intention *****
I saw a poster on twitter ranging against Sky and Froome saying that it was impossible and his transformation is not credible.
And his profile said 'I have devoted my life to Jesus Christ'
So impossible : 6.1 W/kg on a climb. Possible: Virgin Birth
Not credible transformation: Clueless but highly rated raw talent to world beater. Credible transformation: Dead on Friday, Alive on Sunday
Low blow. Had more respect for you.
I put a warning at the beginning.
I'm an atheist who finds religion ridiculous - maybe I'm wrong. But I find it bizarre that someone can doubt something easily explainable yet devote their life to (in my mind) the ludicrous and impossible.
Where's the like button??
BR needs a like button.0
