Are sky clean or not?
Comments
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The other place is an illusion I've created to make me appear to be rational and well-informed.
It's almost working.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
You have to wonder if they even watch cycling.They've cited the "fact" that G has done nothing in the classics before this season "except" 10th in 2010 Flanders as evidence of a miraculous transformation. Too dim to realise that 2010 was his first Flanders, or that he'd won junior Roubaix in 2004. They really hate Sky / "Brits" over there.
Thomas's previous classics performances:
2011
2nd Dwars door Vlaanderen
10th Tour of Flanders
2013
4th E3 Harelbeke
4th Het Niewsblad
2014
3rd E3 Harelbeke
8th Tour of Flanders
7th Paris-RoubaixTwitter: @RichN950 -
Your posts are amazing, Macaloon.
The William S. Burroughs of Bike Radar. ;-)Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
You have to wonder if they even watch cycling.They've cited the "fact" that G has done nothing in the classics before this season "except" 10th in 2010 Flanders as evidence of a miraculous transformation. Too dim to realise that 2010 was his first Flanders, or that he'd won junior Roubaix in 2004. They really hate Sky / "Brits" over there.
Thomas's previous classics performances:
2011
2nd Dwars door Vlaanderen
10th Tour of Flanders
2013
4th E3 Harelbeke
4th Het Niewsblad
2014
3rd E3 Harelbeke
8th Tour of Flanders
7th Paris-Roubaix
Won Nokere koers too, I think"In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Frenchfighter remainds me of the squabbling football fans who call in talksport
Clueless or rabidly anti-everyone but their little fellows?Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
Removed.
Apologies to Rob, but you'll need to edit your post too vvv0 -
Your posts are amazing, Macaloon.
The William S. Burroughs of Bike Radar. ;-)
Just promise you won't try the William Tell stunt at parties.
One of my workmates was actually killed doing something similar in a stupid drunken stunt. He was shot in the eye with an air rifle and died a few days later.0 -
Or by BMC, who have a similar if not higher team budget. Or by TS, who apparently aren't all that far behind either (and Oleg certainly has spare cash if he wants to use it). But those teams aren't Sky, so let's ignore them completely, woo![url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655324#p19655324]Hamish McTavish[/url] wrote:
Well I just Googled Ketones and I can by some nice raspberry flavoured ones for £19.99. Is this the secret of Sky's "dominance"? They've got the internet and everyone else is still using the aforementioned traditional pencils?Apparently Valgren said Tinkoff tried to get some but you need to be mates with the Oxford dons.
Read my posts a few pages back. Not the same. These ketones are in the form of an energy drink and cost £2000 per litre so perfectly affordable by sky.
If you have more money to spend than rival teams it'd be silly not to try and use it somehow, whether it's by paying for better riders or by exploring more unusual or expensive training/nutrition options. If WADA or the UCI have a problem with something a team is doing, they will ban it or regulate it (exactly what happened when Sky attempted to implement their motorhome idea). Otherwise I don't see a problem. It's unrealistic to expect every team to have the same financial resources. There are huge imbalances between teams in football and F1 for example, yet everyone accepts that just how things are.
Can't remember where I read it but apparently tinkov went to try and get some Ketones but Oxford university wouldn't supply. How true this is I have no idea.***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0 -
Over a nine year reign.
He won in 2007 and 2009. 2010 he had his result stripped for being "a drug user of low moral standing".
That isn't a nine year reign. It's a broken sequence of two wins spanning three years. 3 over 4 if you want to take the wee-wee.
That is assuming 2007 was clean
Well he was clean in 2006, that what Ufe's records said. :P0 -
Can't remember where I read it but apparently tinkov went to try and get some Ketones but Oxford university wouldn't supply. How true this is I have no idea.
Sounds more like some sort of in-joke that's been taken out of context, to be honest - having read around a little bit, they don't seem to be terribly difficult substances to synthesise, and I don't see why you'd need a cutting edge university to supply them. In fact, I suspect that they're mostly being talked about because they sound mysteriously sciency, rather than any actual pseudo-doping nefariousness.
Someone with a bit more relevant training or scientific knowledge (I'm an ecologist by training, and spreadsheet monkey by occupation) might conradict me on this - and if I'm wrong I hope they do - but this very much seems to me to based on the same idea that the Atkins diet fad was - they're both trying to push the body into ketosis, when the metabolic pathways favour burning fats rather than carbohydrates. This would be useful for conditioning, but probably bugger all use during an actual race - the body naturally favours burning carbs, so presumably it's more energetically efficient to load up with those, and it's a bit late to be trying to burn off fat, surely?
Worryingly, this all suggests that the Atkins diet might have had something going for it after all...0 -
Pffffttttt, ketones! What a waste of money, these people have obviously never heard of banana soreen.0
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Pffffttttt, ketones! What a waste of money, these people have obviously never heard of banana soreen.
Nonsense. Everyone knows a liquorice allsort is the fuel of champions.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655728#p19655728]underlayunderlay[/url] wrote:Pffffttttt, ketones! What a waste of money, these people have obviously never heard of banana soreen.
Nonsense. Everyone knows a liquorice allsort is the fuel of champions.
Are these the liquorice allsorts you can buy in shops or the £2000 a bag ones from Oxford University?0 -
I am quite happy to buy some of the ketones from the internet, mix them with some Lucozade Sport and sell them at £1,999 a pop. And I know an Oxford Don (English is her subject but lets not sweat the details). Do you think I'll corner the market?Read my posts a few pages back. Not the same. These ketones are in the form of an energy drink and cost £2000 per litre so perfectly affordable by sky.0 -
Today's Time (pay walled)
Roger Palfreeman, one of the most respected doctors in sport and a leading anti-doping campaigner, has been appointed team doctor by Team Sky. With Chris Froome having to fend off renewed questioning after outstanding performances, Sky have made a significant move in PR as well as medical terms.
Palfreeman worked for British Cycling, as well as for Sky, before taking a job advising UK Sport pre-London 2012. He was rehired by Sky from the BMC team at the beginning of last month, although his recruitment has not been publicly confirmed as he completes a three-month induction.
His arrival will provide confidence in the zero tolerance anti-doping policy adopted by Sir Dave Brailsford, Sky’s team principal, and in an interview yesterday, Palfreeman talked about the internal procedures used by Sky to eliminate the dangers of drug-taking among its riders and staff, as well as about innovations in drug-taking that the sport needs to head off in the future.
Above all, he believes that cycling can sustain its credibility only by maintaining constant vigilance against the twin dangers of new doping techniques and the innovative masking procedures that surround them.
“I am absolutely confident in the cleanness of Team Sky,” Palfreeman said. “The procedures are the strongest in the sport and the culture, which I have seen close up, gives you huge confidence. They don’t just examine new riders on the statistics required by the biological passport, but on qualitative measures that take you closer to the real risks in doping. But we need to extend best practice across the sport, and introduce more rigorous testing so the public can be absolutely sure that the sport is clean.”
Palfreeman called for 24-hour testing as a matter of urgency. “So long as it is targeted and doesn’t begin to snowball, this would be hugely important,” he said. “We know from academic papers and real-world experiments that you can beat the biological passport by microdosing. You just take quantities of the drug that enable you to gain a performance advantage but which are insufficient to trigger a positive finding.
“But with 24-hour testing, you can go after the banned substances directly, before they have been flushed out of the body. It is one strategy that would cause huge alarm to any rider currently involved in blood doping. Used in a sophisticated and targeted way, 24-hour testing would be invaluable.”
Palfreeman identified new drugs, which target gene expression, as a key danger. “There are experimental drugs such as AICAR and GW1516 which could have a serious impact,” he said.
“These are like endurance training in a pill. They were developed to help people with illnesses like diabetes, obesity and cardiovascular disease, but could have a big impact upon performance and recovery too. In clinical trials, GW1516 caused cancer in animals, which is why it was not rolled out. But there has been talk of such drugs in the peloton [at least four athletes have tested positive for the substance]. The crucial thing, however, is to develop our understanding of these dangers, and how to combat them.”
There were suspicions when Palfreeman left Team Sky in March 2010. Some observers wondered if he had left because he had concerns about the robustness of the anti-doping operation. But he made it clear that this was not the case. “I had been with British Cycling for a long time. I felt like a change,” he said. “My move had nothing whatever to do with doping.”
The stellar performance of Team Sky at this year’s Tour de France has led to suspicions in the French media, and huge frustration within the operation. The decision to hire Palfreeman can be seen as part of a PR offensive in the teeth of this adverse publicity. Sky point out that it is nigh impossible to prove a negative — that they are not doping — and that they have tried to conduct themselves with honour and openness.
“I am looking forward to continuing my work with Team Sky, as well as in the campaign to kick doping out of sport,” Palfreeman said. “It would be great to live in a world where stellar performances are met with enthusiasm rather than distrust.”
What sceptics say
Laurent Jalabert, speaking on television, said that Froome’s victory on Tuesday was “uncomfortable to watch”
Cedric Vasseur, also a television pundit, said: “It seems like the bike is pedalling itself”
Le Monde “To explain that a sprinter runs 100 metres in 9 seconds, one cannot simply say that it is just exceptional”
L’Équipe “As in 2013, the performance of the British team is inseparable from a certain mistrust.”
Le Monde “The prevailing atmosphere in the Tour is one of suspicionNapoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
Worth listening to the interview with Richie Porte in yesterday's Cycling Podcast; he was punched by a 'fan' on one if the Pyrenean stages and also subject to verbal abuse (from cowards who quickly apologised when he confronted them). Is this the climate we all want the Tour to be ridden in? If Journalists have suspicions fine, do some journalism and find out some facts to back them up. I guess this requires more effort than churning out some click-bait innuendo though.0
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Looks like a strong move. Brave guy. They could appoint Pope Francis as spiritual adviser and within 5 minutes he'd be denounced as a deluded fan-boy shill for a totalitarian regime.
The semantic gymnastics regarding Thomas will be interesting. He was the Sky rider it was safe to like, a human shield against charges of outright bigotry....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Superb.
We can all go home now....0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655709#p19655709]underlayunderlay[/url] wrote:Can't remember where I read it but apparently tinkov went to try and get some Ketones but Oxford university wouldn't supply. How true this is I have no idea.
Sounds more like some sort of in-joke that's been taken out of context, to be honest - having read around a little bit, they don't seem to be terribly difficult substances to synthesise, and I don't see why you'd need a cutting edge university to supply them. In fact, I suspect that they're mostly being talked about because they sound mysteriously sciency, rather than any actual pseudo-doping nefariousness.
Someone with a bit more relevant training or scientific knowledge (I'm an ecologist by training, and spreadsheet monkey by occupation) might conradict me on this - and if I'm wrong I hope they do - but this very much seems to me to based on the same idea that the Atkins diet fad was - they're both trying to push the body into ketosis, when the metabolic pathways favour burning fats rather than carbohydrates. This would be useful for conditioning, but probably bugger all use during an actual race - the body naturally favours burning carbs, so presumably it's more energetically efficient to load up with those, and it's a bit late to be trying to burn off fat, surely?
Worryingly, this all suggests that the Atkins diet might have had something going for it after all...
Not sure how you can rubbish it and then say you have no real knowledge of the subject beyond a basic idea of ketosis. My understanding - admittedly probably based on no more scientific knowledge than yours - was that a ketonic diet would yield some advantages but would deprive the body of the necessary glycogen for high end efforts - so you'd gain on the one hand but then lose out more in other ways. By adding ketones directly the body could have the best of both worlds - you wouldn't have to restrict glycogen to produce the ketones. I have no idea if it works beyond some quick googling which suggests it may do - it at least sounds like a credible theory.
Anyway I see Froome has denied categorically that Team Sky do use them - be interesting if someone at Sky could comment on that and at British Cycling as they are rumoured to have looked at them to but as things stand we have to assume they aren't behind Sky's performances. Apparently the Sky/BC nutritionist mentioned Ketones at a conference as far back as 2012 so they have been on their radar at least - you'd expect nothing less of a team looking for marginal gains - these are the sort of things these people are paid to be on top of.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Superb.
We can all go home now....
Your infographic is wrong. It is not based on % gradient but a simple law of physics that to lift X kilos Y meters takes W power. It is a formula everyone learns in GCSE physics. The unknowns in cycling are X, wind resistance and rolling resistance.
Plus have the power people demonstrated at what levels of watts over what time must be the result of doping?
That is a quadratic equation in the infographic, which is kinda dumb when they could have put in the real formula.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
Someone punched porte the other day. Someone once punched merckx. Merckx was unlikely to be riding paniagua.
Therefore brailsford is running a team wide doing program.
MORNINGTON CRESCENT!!Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
No, you're wrong. While the formula may use VAM as it's primary variable the gradient is important. While your GCSE equation does indeed calculate the energy (not power) needed to lift a certain mass a certain height, gravity is no the only resistance that needs to overcome. There is also air resistance and rolling resistance to consider.Your infographic is wrong. It is not based on % gradient but a simple law of physics that to lift X kilos Y meters takes W power. It is a formula everyone learns in GCSE physics. The unknowns in cycling are X, wind resistance and rolling resistance.
According to your understanding of the physics, the power required to ride along a completely flat road would be Zero Watts
Steeper gradients (which have less actual road per vertical metre gained) give higher power estimates unless compensated for. Unfortunately, neither nature of civil engineering give us consistent gradients, so this is a source of errors. The more variable a gradient the less accurate the estimate.
In his magazine Vayer claimed his accuracy was +/-2%. He supported this by comparing seven results witha single riders power files for those climbs (it was Chris Horner). Once he had discounted the two or three that were more than 2% out for various reasons he claimed that they were all within 2%. (The least accurate was 9% out)Twitter: @RichN950 -
Here's a week in cycling media world:
Tuesday: Make veiled accusations and complain about loss of trust
Wednesday: Interview ex-Festina 'coach'
Thursday: Interview Lance Armstrong
Friday: Interview Laurent Jalabert
Saturday: Interview Michael Rasmussen
Sunday: Make veiled accusations and complain about loss of trust - now with quotes from the above
Their scrambling to get quotes from the very people would brought about the loss of trust is like getting marriage guidance counselling from the man who's been screwing your wife.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Looks like a strong move. Brave guy. They could appoint Pope Francis as spiritual adviser and within 5 minutes he'd be denounced as a deluded fan-boy shill for a totalitarian regime.
The semantic gymnastics regarding Thomas will be interesting. He was the Sky rider it was safe to like, a human shield against charges of outright bigotry.
I haven't read the Clinics opinions of it yet, but I assume their stance is either Sky are paying him huge amounts to keep his mouth shut or have something on him? (Or both).
It's a good move from Sky, but the only people it will convince is those like most of us who don't think Sky are dirty anyway. Those such as the clinic fodder can't be reasoned with, Sky could release every single bit of data they had and they'd just say it's motors in bikes or they're cheating some other way.0 -
No, you're wrong. .... There is also air resistance and rolling resistance to consider.The unknowns in cycling are X, wind resistance and rolling resistance.
Like....doh! :?BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
"Laurent Jalabert, speaking on television, said that Froome’s victory on Tuesday was “uncomfortable to watch”
The irony of this statement is obviously lost on LJ.
Clown.
DD.0 -
Someone mentioned Sagan not looking at stages beforehand, did anyone just see on the highlights he was looking at a map of the route profile today during the actual stage?
I can't believe a professional rider can be so under-prepared, I mean bloody hell when I plan a long ride or do the odd sportive I know the profile off by heart before I get on the bike. Every climb, feed point etc. Unbelievable.0 -
Here's a week in cycling media world:
Tuesday: Make veiled accusations and complain about loss of trust
Wednesday: Interview ex-Festina 'coach'
Thursday: Interview Lance Armstrong
Friday: Interview Laurent Jalabert
Saturday: Interview Michael Rasmussen
Sunday: Make veiled accusations and complain about loss of trust - now with quotes from the above
Their scrambling to get quotes from the very people would brought about the loss of trust is like getting marriage guidance counselling from the man who's been screwing your wife.
As if on cue, M Ras interviewed at the start of today's stage:Contador is the Greatest0 -
^That t-shirt is an absolute crime.Correlation is not causation.0
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^That t-shirt is an absolute crime.
Just be glad he's wearing a shirt
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