Are sky clean or not?
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That's been mainly Froome. The perceived weaknesss in the last two Tours has been his team. He was regularly tested on descents and pressured on lumpy stages. That seems to have been fixed this year so Froome gets the boost of a bullt-proof team, that he probably didn't need.
But we'll never know because they didn't bloody try. Why not?...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Out of the last four Tours they have won two, had their superman crash out of one and are currently heavy favourite to win this one.
Like most English speakers they don't care about anything else.
So use that as your base stat.
So you might want to revisit non-dominance of the Tour delusion.
To add to that I always thought Wiggins had a very decent chance in 2011 before crashing.
Their list of wins throughout the last four or five seasons suggests otherwise.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Sky have won 2 out of the last 16 Grand Tours - 12.5%. Dominance has never looked so weak.
This dominance delusion is symmetrical. The same stat doesn't detract from the notion that Brailsford has mystical powers.
But if we hypothesise that Froome dominates this Tour (which we all accept is quite likely) then Sky will have dominated '12, '13 and '15. That's 75% of TdFs in four years. Which given that Froome crashed out in the 1st week and Porte was ill in '14 does look a lot like dominance.
They aren't dominating cycling in general, despite the good showing in the classics and the week long stage races they've won. But in the biggest of them all they bring their game.
But equally Wiggins faced a very weak field in 2012 in a tour almost tailor-made for him with the TT miles. This year the biggest surprise is the total lack of form of what many regarded as major contenders - even Quintana looks under par. Contador and Nibali are finishing behind rouleurs on mountains. You may have a point if Sky were dominating riders who looked like they were in form ....0 -
That's been mainly Froome. The perceived weaknesss in the last two Tours has been his team. He was regularly tested on descents and pressured on lumpy stages. That seems to have been fixed this year so Froome gets the boost of a bullt-proof team, that he probably didn't need.
But we'll never know because they didn't bloody try. Why not?
Conservatism? Being psychologically dominated? A game of prisoners dilemma with the other challengers?Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I feel sorry for Quintana. He's got "The Great Hope" expectations pinned firmly on his shoulders, massively unfair for a rider so young. He's expected to be the best climber in the world, on every climb, ever.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0
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I feel sorry for Quintana. He's got "The Great Hope" expectations pinned firmly on his shoulders, massively unfair for a rider so young. He's expected to be the best climber in the world, on every climb, ever.
Don't feel sorry for him. He has won the same amount of GTs as Froome and is 5 years younger.
He is also very relaxed about the whole thing. Come to Europe, put in some massive performances, go back to his family in Colombia.
ps. Contador is 32 and has nine GTs. So Froome really needs to go to the Vuelta this year to try and notch another (unless its irrelevant to his team).Contador is the Greatest0 -
I feel sorry for Quintana. He's got "The Great Hope" expectations pinned firmly on his shoulders, massively unfair for a rider so young. He's expected to be the best climber in the world, on every climb, ever.
Don't feel sorry for him. He has won the same amount of GTs as Froome and is 5 years younger.
He is also very relaxed about the whole thing. Come to Europe, put in some massive performances, go back to his family in Colombia.
ps. Contador is 32 and has nine GTs. So Froome really needs to go to the Vuelta this year to try and notch another (unless its irrelevant to his team).
Give your man Contador's failure to prioritise this season, I'm not sure you can lecture Sky on picking and choosing their GTs for Froome. It's still only seven, BTW.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Yes the team are. Whether individuals within the team are is another question. Guess only a positive test or a confession will prove it one way or another0
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Give your man Contador's failure to prioritise this season, I'm not sure you can lecture Sky on picking and choosing their GTs for Froome.
Not sure what you are on about and neither do I care to discuss it. I am sorry your favourite GC rider has only one GT win but there is no need to get too upset.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Give your man Contador's failure to prioritise this season, I'm not sure you can lecture Sky on picking and choosing their GTs for Froome.
Not sure what you are on about and neither do I care to discuss it. I am sorry your favourite GC rider has only one GT win but there is no need to get too upset.
Sigh... Just when the thread had some decent debate on it... But you can't help yourself with the Contador willy-waving.
I was referring to the fact Contador has come to The Tour significantly under par, as was generally predicted after he chose to ride the Giro.
I don't particularly like Froome, btw, though I respect him as a rider.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Frenchfighter remainds me of the squabbling football fans who call in talksport0
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Spaniard Alberto Contador is unlikely to take the Giro d’Italia-Tour de France double because of Chris Froome’s dominance, said team Tinkoff-Saxo.
Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-de-france/alberto-contadors-giro-tour-double-dream-is-over-says-team-183071#UbKGcm3C335IImEV.99
:roll: ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
I feel sorry for Quintana. He's got "The Great Hope" expectations pinned firmly on his shoulders, massively unfair for a rider so young. He's expected to be the best climber in the world, on every climb, ever.
Don't feel sorry for him. He has won the same amount of GTs as Froome and is 5 years younger.
He is also very relaxed about the whole thing. Come to Europe, put in some massive performances, go back to his family in Colombia.
ps. Contador is 32 and has nine GTs. So Froome really needs to go to the Vuelta this year to try and notch another (unless its irrelevant to his team).
Pretty sure the number of GTs you've won isn't the only measure of your worth. Contadors 7 GTs is incredibly impressive, best of the modern era, but even he hasn't done the Tour + another double, and we are seeing at the moment why riders can't/don't.
Unfotunately the Tour sits head and shoulders obove the other GTs so you can see why it's the principle goal for the teams, riders, sponsors etc. Looks like Froome could soon have two wins and a second which puts him ahead of Contador in many peoples minds. Far from done yet though.0 -
The new way to prove Froome is doping is to derive a time up Alpe d'Huez from his alleged 6.1 w/kg on PDB. Ingenious....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0
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I don't even need to defend Contador to you. His results page speaks for itself, even if you just look at his Tour performance. Over a nine year reign.
Wont comment any more on it as it is a side show to this topic. Just need to correct some delusional posters first.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Priceless.Wont comment any more on it as it is a side show to this topic. Just need to correct some delusional posters first.0 -
I don't even need to defend Contador to you. His results page speaks for itself, even if you just look at his Tour performance. Over a nine year reign.
Wont comment any more on it as it is a side show to this topic. Just need to correct some delusional posters first.
Just saying that you can't compare every rider to probably the best of his generation and say his results are practically worthless because they don't stack up. You don't like the guy (or team), that's fine but why make him (them) the subject of so many of your posts?0 -
The new way to prove Froome is doping is to derive a time up Alpe d'Huez from his alleged 6.1 w/kg on PDB. Ingenious.
Yep. It adds some more pixels to the magic painting.
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655324#p19655324]Hamish McTavish[/url] wrote:
Well I just Googled Ketones and I can by some nice raspberry flavoured ones for £19.99. Is this the secret of Sky's "dominance"? They've got the internet and everyone else is still using the aforementioned traditional pencils?Apparently Valgren said Tinkoff tried to get some but you need to be mates with the Oxford dons.
Read my posts a few pages back. Not the same. These ketones are in the form of an energy drink and cost £2000 per litre so perfectly affordable by sky. It's already been confirmed that British rowing use them and British cycling have tried them too.
Also to the person who mentioned why has all the other pelotons doping failed again I'll point you to the Armstrong era. Ullrich, Hamilton, landis were all doped too but lance was still stronger. It's well known doping affects people differently. You could get a 10% gain with one person but only 4% with another.***** Pro Tour Pundit Champion 2020, 2018, 2017 & 2011 *****0 -
G is now the subject of the Clinic's ire, the theory that he couldn't climb before this year and pulled back half-hearted attacks from Quintana and Contador means he is a rampant doper.
Strange, as I've seen him pulling at the front of the peloton up mountains for the last few years and improving each year until now where he gets to sit in more and do less donkey work.
I really shouldn't read that forum (nobody should) but I can't help it, it's like watching a Facebook video of somebody getting cut in half by a train - you just have to look.0 -
G is now the subject of the Clinic's ire, the theory that he couldn't climb before this year and pulled back half-hearted attacks from Quintana and Contador means he is a rampant doper.
Strange, as I've seen him pulling at the front of the peloton up mountains for the last few years and improving each year until now where he gets to sit in more and do less donkey work.
I really shouldn't read that forum (nobody should) but I can't help it, it's like watching a Facebook video of somebody getting cut in half by a train - you just have to look.
TBH, I don't look at either. It's better that way.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Over a nine year reign.
He won in 2007 and 2009. 2010 he had his result stripped for being "a drug user of low moral standing".
That isn't a nine year reign. It's a broken sequence of two wins spanning three years. 3 over 4 if you want to take the piss.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
Hadn't heard of ketones in a sport supplement context before but google suggests that Sky have indeed looked into their use and probably have used them in races - given the cost running into thousands of pounds per race you'd have to assume they are convinced there is some performance advantage there.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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Over a nine year reign.
He won in 2007 and 2009. 2010 he had his result stripped for being "a drug user of low moral standing".
That isn't a nine year reign. It's a broken sequence of two wins spanning three years. 3 over 4 if you want to take the wee-wee.
That is assuming 2007 was clean0 -
Also to the person who mentioned why has all the other pelotons doping failed again I'll point you to the Armstrong era. Ullrich, Hamilton, landis were all doped too but lance was still stronger. It's well known doping affects people differently. You could get a 10% gain with one person but only 4% with another.
I understand the variable reponse so it quite possible to see what we saw with them all on the same gear. My point was that the assumption that they are all on the gear rests on performance analysis. By their own yardsticks, the performance of Froome was borderline (at the very worst). (That's why the goalposts have shifted to his transformation.)
How come all these other dopers can't get close to limits of human performance?...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
5. There seem to be very few allegiances in modern cycling - multiple teams need to work together if they want to beat one dominant rider. Then worry about sorting it out between themselves on another day.
I saw Nibs and Contador chatting on the last climb yesterday, were they talking some tactics or just deciding which bar to have a beer in later?
When you think back to the pre Postal days you'd often be left with just the GC contenders on the last climb with a few climbers. There would be a few bits of cat and mouse before someone would climb away to victory; it might even a one of the pure climbers who'd win.
The Postal train, and now Sky train, shut down that style of racing. In the EPO era someone could still say "I'm fed up with getting my ass handed to me" take a blood bag or something and sprint away for a multiminute victory.
Someone said teams need to counter Sky's way of riding. Well that's exactly what Nibs did last year. Put Sky and Saxo under pressure in the first week leaving Nibs alone in the mountain stages to pick off the weaker riders. Sky saw that danger and did the same thing this year. New tactics needed again and maybe teams need to decide whether the TdF is the main priority or not.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Or by BMC, who have a similar if not higher team budget. Or by TS, who apparently aren't all that far behind either (and Oleg certainly has spare cash if he wants to use it). But those teams aren't Sky, so let's ignore them completely, woo![url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19655324#p19655324]Hamish McTavish[/url] wrote:
Well I just Googled Ketones and I can by some nice raspberry flavoured ones for £19.99. Is this the secret of Sky's "dominance"? They've got the internet and everyone else is still using the aforementioned traditional pencils?Apparently Valgren said Tinkoff tried to get some but you need to be mates with the Oxford dons.
Read my posts a few pages back. Not the same. These ketones are in the form of an energy drink and cost £2000 per litre so perfectly affordable by sky.
If you have more money to spend than rival teams it'd be silly not to try and use it somehow, whether it's by paying for better riders or by exploring more unusual or expensive training/nutrition options. If WADA or the UCI have a problem with something a team is doing, they will ban it or regulate it (exactly what happened when Sky attempted to implement their motorhome idea). Otherwise I don't see a problem. It's unrealistic to expect every team to have the same financial resources. There are huge imbalances between teams in football and F1 for example, yet everyone accepts that just how things are.0 -
G is now the subject of the Clinic's ire, the theory that he couldn't climb before this year and pulled back half-hearted attacks from Quintana and Contador means he is a rampant doper.
Strange, as I've seen him pulling at the front of the peloton up mountains for the last few years and improving each year until now where he gets to sit in more and do less donkey work.
I really shouldn't read that forum (nobody should) but I can't help it, it's like watching a Facebook video of somebody getting cut in half by a train - you just have to look.
They've cited the "fact" that G has done nothing in the classics before this season "except" 10th in 2010 Flanders as evidence of a miraculous transformation. Too dim to realise that 2010 was his first Flanders, or that he'd won junior Roubaix in 2004. They really hate Sky / "Brits" over there.0 -
The other place is an illusion I've created to make me appear to be rational and well-informed....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0
