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Comments
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Apart from the LDI meltdownDorset_Boy said:
They have been very successful in the pension space.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Auto enrolment is a mahoosive success, the 2015 freedoms are hugely beneficial, and the new State Pension is way better than the old one.
And there's the argument that the way UK pension funds are regulated it makes scaling firms from start up to national and international players much harder in the UK and leaves them open to non-UK investors to pile money in and reap the rewards.
But yes, auto enrolment is a success. Not really necessarily sure that's a tentpole policy on which conservatism can hang its hat on but sure, it'll improve a lot of people's lives down the road.
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Can you expand on your second paragraph?rick_chasey said:
Apart from the LDI meltdownDorset_Boy said:
They have been very successful in the pension space.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Auto enrolment is a mahoosive success, the 2015 freedoms are hugely beneficial, and the new State Pension is way better than the old one.
And there's the argument that the way UK pension funds are regulated it makes scaling firms from start up to national and international players much harder in the UK and leaves them open to non-UK investors to pile money in and reap the rewards.
But yes, auto enrolment is a success. Not really necessarily sure that's a tentpole policy on which conservatism can hang its hat on but sure, it'll improve a lot of people's lives down the road.0 -
So apparently, one of the elements that economists think is part of the productivity puzzle in the UK is around investment at the growth stage of companies.Dorset_Boy said:
Can you expand on your second paragraph?rick_chasey said:
Apart from the LDI meltdownDorset_Boy said:
They have been very successful in the pension space.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Auto enrolment is a mahoosive success, the 2015 freedoms are hugely beneficial, and the new State Pension is way better than the old one.
And there's the argument that the way UK pension funds are regulated it makes scaling firms from start up to national and international players much harder in the UK and leaves them open to non-UK investors to pile money in and reap the rewards.
But yes, auto enrolment is a success. Not really necessarily sure that's a tentpole policy on which conservatism can hang its hat on but sure, it'll improve a lot of people's lives down the road.
Basically, the UK has a really strong culture of entrepreneurialism; something like 1 in 7 dollars spent on VCs goes to UK start ups. That's properly good, and punching way above its weight.
But it's one of the worst countries when it comes to scaling up beyond VC funding. Apparently, that's partly down to the fact that capital dries up for firms at this stage (when they need to raise 10s or 100s of millions).
This should be the right level for institutional investors to get involved to invest, and indeed, in places like the US and Canada, they do this particularly well. However, in the UK, less than 1% of institutional money is invested in unlisted equities. Similarly, DB pension money, for a myriad of reasons, has reallocated away from UK equities, from something like near 50% to around 5%.
Part of this, as Hunt himself recognises , is down to the rules and regulations that govern UK pensions, which seem so overly preoccupied with protecting the pensioner (entirely reasonable), that it misses out on the other positive externalities of a well functioning pension sector.
Anecdotally, my colleagues work with funds at more mature VCs heading into growth stage companies, and they *all* immediately go hunting on the continent and especially in North America to get capital.
That's fine, they should go where they can find capital, but the UK is clearly not an environment which encourages internal investment.0 -
Thanks, so it's the rules around funding of the existing DB schemes and annuities that is the issue.
That should be a decreasing problem given no DB schemes in the private sector are open to new membership and alomost noe to future accrual.
There is an issue around the funding, I agree. With a 65 yo male liking to his late 80s on average the timescale for providing their annuity or DB income is 20+ years. Over that timescale, if you were in drawdown, you would have a significant amount still invested in equities.
It also doesn't help when the PII system is a scam, and much larger excesses apply if advice is given to invest in AIM for example, yet the quality of management of many, many AIM companoies, added to the fact that you really do get owner directors there, is much higher than in the FTSE250 companies who have the boardroom merry-go-round.0 -
If you look at the monster Canadian pension funds for example, they are basically throwing money at any and every VC that makes it past series C.0
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But they have a different time horizon.rick_chasey said:If you look at the monster Canadian pension funds for example, they are basically throwing money at any and every VC that makes it past series C.
As DB says most of the money is in DB schemes who are nearly all in run-off so want to have the money to pay the benefits over the next few decades.
I really don't think start ups is the right place for most people to be investing their SIPPs0 -
I mean, they're not start ups, that's the point, but yes, there is a different make up.surrey_commuter said:
But they have a different time horizon.rick_chasey said:If you look at the monster Canadian pension funds for example, they are basically throwing money at any and every VC that makes it past series C.
As DB says most of the money is in DB schemes who are nearly all in run-off so want to have the money to pay the benefits over the next few decades.
I really don't think start ups is the right place for most people to be investing their SIPPs0 -
No, just realistic about Labour's ability to improve things.rjsterry said:
A tad defeatist.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
They can improve Britain by not doing any more Tory things.Stevo_666 said:
No, just realistic about Labour's ability to improve things.rjsterry said:
A tad defeatist.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.0 -
Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts.0 -
Ironic that almost the only thing I hear from my Conservative MP is how everything is Labour's fault.Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Good objective post there Brian.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I thought you had Fib Dum MP. Clearly I was mistaken.rjsterry said:
Ironic that almost the only thing I hear from my Conservative MP is how everything is Labour's fault.Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
As demonstrated in Scotland by the SNP over the last few years?First.Aspect said:
They can improve Britain by not doing any more Tory things.Stevo_666 said:
No, just realistic about Labour's ability to improve things.rjsterry said:
A tad defeatist.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Are the SNP labour in your mind now? They aren't, they stand for one thing and will follow whatever agenda they need to get there. The wokeism and high taxation is driven mainly by a need to have a few Green party votes, not by any great philosophical vision. They are also both uniquely anti business and high personal taxation. That's because the greens seem to be against quite a lot of things that don't wear sandals and socks.Stevo_666 said:
As demonstrated in Scotland by the SNP over the last few years?First.Aspect said:
They can improve Britain by not doing any more Tory things.Stevo_666 said:
No, just realistic about Labour's ability to improve things.rjsterry said:
A tad defeatist.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
1 -
Stevo_666 said:
Good objective post there Brian.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts.
Feel free to counter my assertions with their accomplishments.0 -
They are straightforward.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Good objective post there Brian.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts.
Feel free to counter my assertions with their accomplishments.
1) You are annoyed by them, so job done.
2) The lefties aren't in power
The truth is that ensuring they personally keep a larger portion of a shrinking pot in a diminishing UK is enough for the wealthier Tory voter. There's no patriotism or concern for society there. As long as they keep being scared that Labour will take a larger portion of their wealth, the Conservatives can take as much as they think they need, and do nothing worthwhile.0 -
being anti business and high taxation is far from unique in Brexit BritainFirst.Aspect said:
Are the SNP labour in your mind now? They aren't, they stand for one thing and will follow whatever agenda they need to get there. The wokeism and high taxation is driven mainly by a need to have a few Green party votes, not by any great philosophical vision. They are also both uniquely anti business and high personal taxation. That's because the greens seem to be against quite a lot of things that don't wear sandals and socks.Stevo_666 said:
As demonstrated in Scotland by the SNP over the last few years?First.Aspect said:
They can improve Britain by not doing any more Tory things.Stevo_666 said:
No, just realistic about Labour's ability to improve things.rjsterry said:
A tad defeatist.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.2 -
Back up whst you posted first and then I can decide how to respond.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Good objective post there Brian.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts.
Feel free to counter my assertions with their accomplishments."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Nice assumptions and the usual leftiebollox.kingstongraham said:
They are straightforward.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Good objective post there Brian.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts.
Feel free to counter my assertions with their accomplishments.
1) You are annoyed by them, so job done.
2) The lefties aren't in power
The truth is that ensuring they personally keep a larger portion of a shrinking pot in a diminishing UK is enough for the wealthier Tory voter. There's no patriotism or concern for society there. As long as they keep being scared that Labour will take a larger portion of their wealth, the Conservatives can take as much as they think they need, and do nothing worthwhile."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
I touched a nerve.0
-
Stevo_666 said:
Back up whst you posted first and then I can decide how to respond.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Good objective post there Brian.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts.
Feel free to counter my assertions with their accomplishments.
Maybe if you read anything other than the Stevograph, you'd have all the evidence that the UK is up Shitcreek, that the rivers are full of sewage, that the NHS is in much worse shape than when the Tories came in, that days lost to strikes are up massively, that our GDP is lower because of Brexit, that talent is migrating to the EU, and that that 10's of billions have gone to fraud and Tories' mates. I could go on. None of this is conjecture or 'opinion'.
Actually, even the Stevograph is acknowledging that it's all a bit rubbish. They've had 13 years, and an 80-seat majority to make it this rubbish. Claim that as a win if you want to.1 -
I thought you could at least have tried to back up statements you made above.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Back up whst you posted first and then I can decide how to respond.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Good objective post there Brian.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
I can safely say that Labour have done nothing but moan in the last 13 years. They are model Cake Stoppers.rick_chasey said:
Why what have they achieved in 13 years?Stevo_666 said:
That's a bit of a blinkered view. Each to their own.Pross said:
Making an effort to run the country would be a good start instead of just sending out messages to trigger the extreme of their base.Stevo_666 said:
We could debate your assessment of where we are now, but I don't see how Labour can make it better. What leftie magic wand do you think they're going to wave?Pross said:
You genuinely think they can't improve the mess the current lot of run us into? The country is currently in the biggest mess I can remember, the late 70s were probably worse but I was too young to pay attention. It's really hard to imagine how any other Government could make things worse. It feels like no-one has been running the country for the last 7 years.Stevo_666 said:
So you think you can improve the country by voting Labour in? Oh dearbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Missing the point again. We're talking about winning elections. Or from a Labour perspective, losing thembriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Who cares. Main question you have to ask yourself is 'when were Labour last in power?'kingstongraham said:
Your boy overachieved against expectations when Theresa took him on didn't he?Stevo_666 said:
I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.surrey_commuter said:
SNP imploding will give Starmer more seatsrick_chasey said:
MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.surrey_commuter said:
my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majorityrick_chasey said:You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall
with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
I think it was the last time the economy was doing better than now and the NHS was in good shape.
Oh, I thought the point of winning elections was to improve the state of the nation.
My mistake.
Dunno if you've noticed, but they've not been in power for 13 years, and their title is "the opposition", so it's kinda in the job description. It was the Tories' job to improve things, and given they had an 80-seat majority, it would be quite nice if they had managed to do something with that other than spaff tens of billions away in their mates' bank accounts.
Feel free to counter my assertions with their accomplishments.
Maybe if you read anything other than the Stevograph, you'd have all the evidence that the UK is up Shitcreek, that the rivers are full of sewage, that the NHS is in much worse shape than when the Tories came in, that days lost to strikes are up massively, that our GDP is lower because of Brexit, that talent is migrating to the EU, and that that 10's of billions have gone to fraud and Tories' mates. I could go on. None of this is conjecture or 'opinion'.
Actually, even the Stevograph is acknowledging that it's all a bit rubbish. They've had 13 years, and an 80-seat majority to make it this rubbish. Claim that as a win if you want to."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
-
No need to act all petulant just because you can't back up your rather ranty postbriantrumpet said:
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
An example might be the massive noise they are making about recruiting 20,000 new police officers, which added to the 20,000 they previously cut makes an overall nothing much.
0 -
*nearly recruiting0
-
Not being petulant, but I swear if I said that gravity pulls stuff towards the earth, you'd ask for evidence. This isn't a court of law, in case you haven't noticed.The sealion politely demands evidence for even the most mundane or self-evident statements and insists that you justify your opinions until he's satisfied—which he never is, since he's asking questions in bad faith.
That's Merrriam Webster, BTW.
And, FWIW, I did suggest first that you might like to counter my assertions, but you pivoted to asking me to justify my opinions (which are hardly controversial, outside of the Stevo bubble).0 -
Watching Sally Nugent interviewing Starmer this morning it looks like she’s not a fan. Wouldn’t give up on demanding an answer on how big a pay rise he would offer nurses then sat there with a face like thunder.0
