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  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    Dorset_Boy said:

    Doubled down with another on gun crime, in the week the Liverpool baby killer was sentenced to 40+ years, having only committed the murder a few months ago.

    It'll just turn voters off all parties.

    It really does vary by region to a quite incredible degree. Political adverts about child sexual abuse and gun crime seem ridiculous when you live in Norfolk. Here the Tories are going to get rinsed initially about the NHS and then with the sh1t in the rivers and coastal areas at the top of the tree.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Basically the Tories have done nothing to improve our lives in recent parliaments but they have degraded lots of things whilst increasing taxation.

    Well done them.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,931
    Diane Abbott, the gift that keeps on giving. Gives a bit more context to Corbyn's downfall.





    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    briantrumpet said:

    Diane Abbott, the gift that keeps on giving. Gives a bit more context to Corbyn's downfall.





    Why am I not surprised?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Shame as she was as at the sharp end of racist nonsense as anyone.

    Think parties in general need to be careful of MPs who become part of the furniture. Sharper pruning would be welcome.

    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,931
    rick_chasey said:

    Shame as she was as at the sharp end of racist nonsense as anyone.


    Yes, true, but she should have known the scrutiny that her opining on different ethnic groups would receive, and that the abuse directed at her wouldn't give her a, erm, carte blanche.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,291
    Well she's finally got her wish of being kicked out.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    I suppose on the downside there now will be less chances to laugh at the rubbish that she spouts.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    She's always been someone who puts together a series of words, careful pauses and inflections, but with absolutely no information content. Somewhat like most of the current cabinet.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    edited April 2023
    First.Aspect said:

    She's always been someone who puts together a series of words, careful pauses and inflections, but with absolutely no information content. Somewhat like most of the current cabinet.

    She did include information, trouble was it was so obviously wrong it was comical. For example:
    https://youtu.be/fxjkvjHn6Qg
    :smiley:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    And then there were things like the odd shoes episode

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?
    _
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
    MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.

    However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,931
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
    MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.

    However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.

    No, agreed, as there doesn't seem to be an inspiring vision, other than "We're not corrupt & incompetent Tories" (apologies for the tautology), and Starmer is no charismatic orator.

    Mind you, "We're not corrupt & incompetent Tories" is enough for me this time, whoever it might be in East Devon (probably Lib Dems) in parliamentary, and Labour in local. I can be patient on the EU front.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    Given why I started the thread, I'm a bit sad to see her go :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    Could someone explain the outrage about her comments? It seems to be universally agreed they were wrong, but I'm struggling a bit.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
    Don't be so pessimistic. There are even a few signs of nervousness in leftiebollox la-la land given the personalised attacks on Sunak in those ads they ran recently.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,291
    TheBigBean said:

    Could someone explain the outrage about her comments? It seems to be universally agreed they were wrong, but I'm struggling a bit.

    It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.


    Surely you see the problem with equating the racial hatred Jews have suffered through history to being teased for having red hair?

    Or how ridiculous it is to conclude that because of the two vaguely correct instances she specifically cites, there has never been racism against Jewish people?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
    MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.

    However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
    SNP imploding will give Starmer more seats

    ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall

    with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Could someone explain the outrage about her comments? It seems to be universally agreed they were wrong, but I'm struggling a bit.

    It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.


    Surely you see the problem with equating the racial hatred Jews have suffered through history to being teased for having red hair?

    Or how ridiculous it is to conclude that because of the two vaguely correct instances she specifically cites, there has never been racism against Jewish people?
    It's certainly clumsy to both bring red haired people into it and to ignore the fairly significant historical events that affected Jewish people. Also, oppression Olympics rarely plays out well.

    All of that said, most statistical metrics would suggest that some groups suffer more than others. This would line up with my anecdotal experience of what bigots talk about although abuse of travellers would be pretty high on that scale too.

    Incidentally, I think teasing people about hair colour will probably become less acceptable.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,291
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Could someone explain the outrage about her comments? It seems to be universally agreed they were wrong, but I'm struggling a bit.

    It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.


    Surely you see the problem with equating the racial hatred Jews have suffered through history to being teased for having red hair?

    Or how ridiculous it is to conclude that because of the two vaguely correct instances she specifically cites, there has never been racism against Jewish people?
    It's certainly clumsy to both bring red haired people into it and to ignore the fairly significant historical events that affected Jewish people. Also, oppression Olympics rarely plays out well.

    All of that said, most statistical metrics would suggest that some groups suffer more than others. This would line up with my anecdotal experience of what bigots talk about although abuse of travellers would be pretty high on that scale too.

    Incidentally, I think teasing people about hair colour will probably become less acceptable.
    It was a response to this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/15/racism-in-britain-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue-it-is-far-more-complicated

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Could someone explain the outrage about her comments? It seems to be universally agreed they were wrong, but I'm struggling a bit.

    It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.


    Surely you see the problem with equating the racial hatred Jews have suffered through history to being teased for having red hair?

    Or how ridiculous it is to conclude that because of the two vaguely correct instances she specifically cites, there has never been racism against Jewish people?
    It's certainly clumsy to both bring red haired people into it and to ignore the fairly significant historical events that affected Jewish people. Also, oppression Olympics rarely plays out well.

    All of that said, most statistical metrics would suggest that some groups suffer more than others. This would line up with my anecdotal experience of what bigots talk about although abuse of travellers would be pretty high on that scale too.

    Incidentally, I think teasing people about hair colour will probably become less acceptable.
    It was a response to this article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/15/racism-in-britain-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue-it-is-far-more-complicated

    Thanks for posting the background as it does help to frame the discussion. I guess my anecdotal evidence of bigoted views differs from the survey of those receiving them.

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,931
    TheBigBean said:



    Incidentally, I think teasing people about hair colour will probably become less acceptable.


    Apparently it's already not acceptable in the school where I work.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    TheBigBean said:

    kingstongraham said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Could someone explain the outrage about her comments? It seems to be universally agreed they were wrong, but I'm struggling a bit.

    It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.


    Surely you see the problem with equating the racial hatred Jews have suffered through history to being teased for having red hair?

    Or how ridiculous it is to conclude that because of the two vaguely correct instances she specifically cites, there has never been racism against Jewish people?
    It's certainly clumsy to both bring red haired people into it and to ignore the fairly significant historical events that affected Jewish people. Also, oppression Olympics rarely plays out well.

    All of that said, most statistical metrics would suggest that some groups suffer more than others. This would line up with my anecdotal experience of what bigots talk about although abuse of travellers would be pretty high on that scale too.

    Incidentally, I think teasing people about hair colour will probably become less acceptable.
    Will this include grey?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,465
    briantrumpet said:

    TheBigBean said:



    Incidentally, I think teasing people about hair colour will probably become less acceptable.


    Apparently it's already not acceptable in the school where I work.
    Is your head teacher a ginger then?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,595
    "Nobody f***s with the Baldies!"
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
    MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.

    However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
    SNP imploding will give Starmer more seats

    ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall

    with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
    I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,958
    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
    MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.

    However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
    SNP imploding will give Starmer more seats

    ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall

    with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
    I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo_666 said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    rick_chasey said:

    You must be pleased with the labour leadership that's she's been expelled from the party then?

    my fear is that the stars are aligning to give Labour "too big" a majority
    MMm not so sure, mud hasn't even began to start slinging.

    However bad the Tories are I don't think Starmer has it in him to win like Blair did.
    SNP imploding will give Starmer more seats

    ToL reckons the LDs are confident of unseating Raab and others in the blue wall

    with the way our chickenshit democracy works I see 50+ as "too big"
    I think you underestimated the seemingly natural leftie ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Or at least to underachive compared to expectations.
    I don't mind Rishi, but calm and steady does not get the headlines and I don't think he has long enough for stability to turn the epolls around

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