Join the Labour Party and save your country!
Comments
-
When i was 20, my mum moved out and left me and my 2 siblings at home to fend for ourselves!pblakeney said:
Cycling friend of mine (and his sister) was told by his mother after finishing high school he was an adult and had two weeks to move out.rjsterry said:
Not for me. Had I not moved out anyway it would have been strongly suggested that once I had a proper job I should be packing my bags.Pross said:
That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?pangolin said:
Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!Pross said:
Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.pangolin said:
No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.Pross said:
Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?pangolin said:
BrilliantPross said:
It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).rick_chasey said:
If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.pblakeney said:
Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.
I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.
He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.
it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:
"That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."
Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.
I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
Sounds harsh but he said it was the best thing to happen to him. Got on the ladder early.
No doubt helped by the availability of 100% mortgages.0 -
I know his long term opinion of the events, yours? Good or bad with hindsight?elbowloh said:
When i was 20, my mum moved out and left me and my 2 siblings at home to fend for ourselves!pblakeney said:
Cycling friend of mine (and his sister) was told by his mother after finishing high school he was an adult and had two weeks to move out.rjsterry said:
Not for me. Had I not moved out anyway it would have been strongly suggested that once I had a proper job I should be packing my bags.Pross said:
That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?pangolin said:
Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!Pross said:
Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.pangolin said:
No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.Pross said:
Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?pangolin said:
BrilliantPross said:
It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).rick_chasey said:
If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.pblakeney said:
Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.
I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.
He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.
it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:
"That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."
Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.
I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
Sounds harsh but he said it was the best thing to happen to him. Got on the ladder early.
No doubt helped by the availability of 100% mortgages.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Its hard to say as I don't know how the alternatives would have worked out, but I don't think it harmed us in anyway and all 3 of us were fairly independent and capable of looking after ourselves.pblakeney said:
I know his long term opinion of the events, yours? Good or bad with hindsight?elbowloh said:
When i was 20, my mum moved out and left me and my 2 siblings at home to fend for ourselves!pblakeney said:
Cycling friend of mine (and his sister) was told by his mother after finishing high school he was an adult and had two weeks to move out.rjsterry said:
Not for me. Had I not moved out anyway it would have been strongly suggested that once I had a proper job I should be packing my bags.Pross said:
That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?pangolin said:
Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!Pross said:
Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.pangolin said:
No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.Pross said:
Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?pangolin said:
BrilliantPross said:
It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).rick_chasey said:
If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.pblakeney said:
Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.
I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.
He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.
it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:
"That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."
Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.
I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
Sounds harsh but he said it was the best thing to happen to him. Got on the ladder early.
No doubt helped by the availability of 100% mortgages.
I guess it was least "fair" on my little sister as she was two years younger, but again she was barely there anyway!0 -
From that link:rjsterry said:
"They’re all here, all the big lads. Gardiner, Burgon, McDonnell, Long-Bailey, Magic Grandpa himself. And the crowd are absolutely loving it. That they are, as a matter of fact, the single shittest collection of politicians ever assembled, just doesn’t bother them at all."
Spot on
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I fear too many are not being raised with that capability. Not all before I get shot down, but our 30ish neighbours are incapable of anything. Parents are always round, lawn needs cut, dog crud lifted first, dog walker, takeaway deliveries every night....elbowloh said:
Its hard to say as I don't know how the alternatives would have worked out, but I don't think it harmed us in anyway and all 3 of us were fairly independent and capable of looking after ourselves.pblakeney said:
I know his long term opinion of the events, yours? Good or bad with hindsight?elbowloh said:
When i was 20, my mum moved out and left me and my 2 siblings at home to fend for ourselves!pblakeney said:
Cycling friend of mine (and his sister) was told by his mother after finishing high school he was an adult and had two weeks to move out.rjsterry said:
Not for me. Had I not moved out anyway it would have been strongly suggested that once I had a proper job I should be packing my bags.Pross said:
That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?pangolin said:
Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!Pross said:
Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.pangolin said:
No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.Pross said:
Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?pangolin said:
BrilliantPross said:
It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).rick_chasey said:
If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.pblakeney said:
Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.
I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.
He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.
it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:
"That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."
Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.
I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
Sounds harsh but he said it was the best thing to happen to him. Got on the ladder early.
No doubt helped by the availability of 100% mortgages.
I guess it was least "fair" on my little sister as she was two years younger, but again she was barely there anyway!
They have a house but I wouldn't call them independent.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The current Cabinet will be upset to lose their title.Stevo_666 said:
From that link:rjsterry said:
"They’re all here, all the big lads. Gardiner, Burgon, McDonnell, Long-Bailey, Magic Grandpa himself. And the crowd are absolutely loving it. That they are, as a matter of fact, the single shittest collection of politicians ever assembled, just doesn’t bother them at all."
Spot on
0 -
I was ironing my own school shirts from around 15 as an example. We could all cook if pushed, but none of us were good cleaners!pblakeney said:
I fear too many are not being raised with that capability. Not all before I get shot down, but our 30ish neighbours are incapable of anything. Parents are always round, lawn needs cut, dog crud lifted first, dog walker, takeaway deliveries every night....elbowloh said:
Its hard to say as I don't know how the alternatives would have worked out, but I don't think it harmed us in anyway and all 3 of us were fairly independent and capable of looking after ourselves.pblakeney said:
I know his long term opinion of the events, yours? Good or bad with hindsight?elbowloh said:
When i was 20, my mum moved out and left me and my 2 siblings at home to fend for ourselves!pblakeney said:
Cycling friend of mine (and his sister) was told by his mother after finishing high school he was an adult and had two weeks to move out.rjsterry said:
Not for me. Had I not moved out anyway it would have been strongly suggested that once I had a proper job I should be packing my bags.Pross said:
That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?pangolin said:
Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!Pross said:
Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.pangolin said:
No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.Pross said:
Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?pangolin said:
BrilliantPross said:
It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).rick_chasey said:
If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.pblakeney said:
Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.
I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.
He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.
it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:
"That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."
Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.
I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
Sounds harsh but he said it was the best thing to happen to him. Got on the ladder early.
No doubt helped by the availability of 100% mortgages.
I guess it was least "fair" on my little sister as she was two years younger, but again she was barely there anyway!
They have a house but I wouldn't call them independent.0 -
Be fair, Williamson is no longer in the cabinet. So it's been worse.Pross said:
The current Cabinet will be upset to lose their title.Stevo_666 said:
From that link:rjsterry said:
"They’re all here, all the big lads. Gardiner, Burgon, McDonnell, Long-Bailey, Magic Grandpa himself. And the crowd are absolutely loving it. That they are, as a matter of fact, the single shittest collection of politicians ever assembled, just doesn’t bother them at all."
Spot on1 -
Liz Truss is foreign secretarykingstongraham said:
Be fair, Williamson is no longer in the cabinet. So it's been worse.Pross said:
The current Cabinet will be upset to lose their title.Stevo_666 said:
From that link:rjsterry said:
"They’re all here, all the big lads. Gardiner, Burgon, McDonnell, Long-Bailey, Magic Grandpa himself. And the crowd are absolutely loving it. That they are, as a matter of fact, the single shittest collection of politicians ever assembled, just doesn’t bother them at all."
Spot on0 -
When analysing which group is the shittest collection of politicians assembled, Liz Truss is not as bad as Liz Truss plus Gavin Williamson. That's simple maths.rick_chasey said:
Liz Truss is foreign secretarykingstongraham said:
Be fair, Williamson is no longer in the cabinet. So it's been worse.Pross said:
The current Cabinet will be upset to lose their title.Stevo_666 said:
From that link:rjsterry said:
"They’re all here, all the big lads. Gardiner, Burgon, McDonnell, Long-Bailey, Magic Grandpa himself. And the crowd are absolutely loving it. That they are, as a matter of fact, the single shittest collection of politicians ever assembled, just doesn’t bother them at all."
Spot on0 -
What was the glory era for competent cabinets?0
-
Depends on your world view. Some think today's lot are wonderful.TheBigBean said:What was the glory era for competent cabinets?
Worth noting that incompetents not in power are doing less harm directly than incompetents in power. An incompetent opposition on the other hand is up for debate.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Time removes the general idiots from your memory.TheBigBean said:What was the glory era for competent cabinets?
0 -
Brown, Cook, Straw, Blunkett, Beckett, Reid, Johnson isn't a bad line up.TheBigBean said:What was the glory era for competent cabinets?
Hurd, Baker, Clarke, Howard, Heseltine, Patten not lightweight either.
If you went back to the 80s there'd be some that are very solid (if disagreeable). There was always people you knew would stand up to the PM.
Further back I'll defer to the even more elderly and/or learned.1 -
Not so much glory years as materially more competent.TheBigBean said:What was the glory era for competent cabinets?
The one piece of British governance that I think in hindsight was exemplary (and ended up being world leading) was Alastair darling & Brown during the GFC. Genuinely, their crisis management saved a lot of heartache and grief.
Generally I would rate that third Brown cabinet's competence person for person higher than this current cabinet.
PM: Brown
Treasury: darling
Foreign: David Milliband
Justice: Straw
Home: Jacqui Smith
Health: Alan Johnson
etc
Edit: correct as per subsequent posts0 -
Do you mean Alastair Darling? Alastair Stewart is the newsreader.rick_chasey said:
Not so much glory years as materially more competent.TheBigBean said:What was the glory era for competent cabinets?
The one piece of British governance that I think in hindsight was exemplary (and ended up being world leading) was Alastair Stewart & Brown during the GFC. Genuinely, their crisis management saved a lot of heartache and grief.
Generally I would rate that third Brown cabinet's competence person for person higher than this current cabinet.
PM: Brown
Treasury: Stewart
Foreign: David Milliband
Justice: Straw
Home: Jacqui Smith
Health: Alan Johnson
etc1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
-
-
Exactly, you disagree with the politics but most (all?) of Thatcher or Blair's Cabinets would have been significantly more competent and I don't think that's rose tinted glasses.0
-
The lack of self-awareness is incredible. As I said before, the reason we have an incompetent Tory party leading the country is directly down to the likes of those people. There's no point them complaining about Tory policies when they have driven their own Party off an electable path.rjsterry said:0 -
It is moronic, but if I can I'll try to use SC's view to give a window into how they've ended up thinking that.Pross said:
The lack of self-awareness is incredible. As I said before, the reason we have an incompetent Tory party leading the country is directly down to the likes of those people. There's no point them complaining about Tory policies when they have driven their own Party off an electable path.rjsterry said:
So a lot of Corbynites feel that despite his crushing defeat, Corbyn was able to move the political centre to the left, and the fact that people like SC view Johnson as a pinko in a tory disguise is proof that Corbyn and his shadow cabinet were in fact a success.
It is of course delusional (and is also right in my crosshairs regarding ignorance of the new political landscape), but I think that is the logic behind those quotes.0 -
It's as though they've completely misunderstood what a political party is for. I think I read someone complaining that the trouble with Starmer was that he was going after people who voted Tory at the last election. 🤯🤪Pross said:
The lack of self-awareness is incredible. As I said before, the reason we have an incompetent Tory party leading the country is directly down to the likes of those people. There's no point them complaining about Tory policies when they have driven their own Party off an electable path.rjsterry said:1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Can't disagree with any of that.Stevo_666 said:
From that link:rjsterry said:
"They’re all here, all the big lads. Gardiner, Burgon, McDonnell, Long-Bailey, Magic Grandpa himself. And the crowd are absolutely loving it. That they are, as a matter of fact, the single shittest collection of politicians ever assembled, just doesn’t bother them at all."
Spot on
The fact that Richard Burgon is about as competent as Dominic Raab shows what a sh1tshow the above shower are.
As I said previously the calibre of politicians of all persuasions is utterly depressing.0 -
I have some sympathy with the argument that Corbyn draged the "Overton Window" to the left. He has brought Nationalisation of key utilities back into the discourse (in a bigger way) for example.rick_chasey said:
It is moronic, but if I can I'll try to use SC's view to give a window into how they've ended up thinking that.Pross said:
The lack of self-awareness is incredible. As I said before, the reason we have an incompetent Tory party leading the country is directly down to the likes of those people. There's no point them complaining about Tory policies when they have driven their own Party off an electable path.rjsterry said:
So a lot of Corbynites feel that despite his crushing defeat, Corbyn was able to move the political centre to the left, and the fact that people like SC view Johnson as a pinko in a tory disguise is proof that Corbyn and his shadow cabinet were in fact a success.
It is of course delusional (and is also right in my crosshairs regarding ignorance of the new political landscape), but I think that is the logic behind those quotes.
Neither party really seems to have a set philosophy for how they are going to help what they see as the big issues of the age though.0 -
-
Certainly wouldn't have Howard in the competent category. Nor Blunkett. Not sure about Beckett either. Also, I liked Straw, but he has some very uncomfortable questions to answer about rendition and torture and his knowledge.kingstongraham said:
Brown, Cook, Straw, Blunkett, Beckett, Reid, Johnson isn't a bad line up.TheBigBean said:What was the glory era for competent cabinets?
Hurd, Baker, Clarke, Howard, Heseltine, Patten not lightweight either.
If you went back to the 80s there'd be some that are very solid (if disagreeable). There was always people you knew would stand up to the PM.
Further back I'll defer to the even more elderly and/or learned.0 -
Go on then I will bite, why is it delusional?rick_chasey said:
It is moronic, but if I can I'll try to use SC's view to give a window into how they've ended up thinking that.Pross said:
The lack of self-awareness is incredible. As I said before, the reason we have an incompetent Tory party leading the country is directly down to the likes of those people. There's no point them complaining about Tory policies when they have driven their own Party off an electable path.rjsterry said:
So a lot of Corbynites feel that despite his crushing defeat, Corbyn was able to move the political centre to the left, and the fact that people like SC view Johnson as a pinko in a tory disguise is proof that Corbyn and his shadow cabinet were in fact a success.
It is of course delusional (and is also right in my crosshairs regarding ignorance of the new political landscape), but I think that is the logic behind those quotes.
Without Corbyn would we have;
More or less state spending
Would there be more or less of a role for the state in the markets
Would there be a cap on energy less than the cost of supplying it
The Tories only turned to Boris to counter the populism of Corbyn and then he raided Miliband’s manifesto0 -
kingstongraham said:
Brown, Cook, Straw, Blunkett, Beckett, Reid, Johnson isn't a bad line up.TheBigBean said:What was the glory era for competent cabinets?
Hurd, Baker, Clarke, Howard, Heseltine, Patten not lightweight either.
If you went back to the 80s there'd be some that are very solid (if disagreeable). There was always people you knew would stand up to the PM.
Further back I'll defer to the even more elderly and/or learned.
This is what I mean about the memory filtering out the dross, why isn’t Prescott in that list?
Maggie had a good rep for spotting the w@nkers but a lot of them rose to the surface under Major0 -
Had the rot set in before Major's tenure, so he didn't have the same breadth of talent to choose from? Mind you, Thatcher herself didn't help when she purged her Willies and anyone else who dared challenge her, in her later years as PM. Blimey, she even effectively got rid of Nigel Lawson, and he wasn't exactly a wet.surrey_commuter said:Maggie had a good rep for spotting the w@nkers but a lot of them rose to the surface under Major
0 -
In one way I respect those hard left types as I've always had more respect for politicians who stick to their ideology even when I don't agree with it. I'm highly suspicious of politicians who try to match their policies to the public mood. The problem is they should have their own hard left party so that there is a centrist option to the Tories (the Lib Dems should be filling that void but seem intent on hiding under their cloak of invisibility).0
