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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Pross said:

    but I still don't think your mid 30s mate unable to buy a one bedroom flat is typical nationwide either.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47070020

    Pre panny d figures (2019)

    Some 38% of 25 to 34-year-olds are homeowners, down from 55% a decade earlier, in part owing to rising house prices.


    I'd say it's fairly typical.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    rick_chasey said:

    Pross said:

    . Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit .

    lol.
    Another who can't finish reading a sentence, I'll help you out "and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months".

    She would have had her own place before she was 25 without the inheritance, that has just allowed her to keep her repayments lower. It would have required the "sacrifice" of living back home for a total of just over 2 years. She even managed to save up around £5k in the previous 12 months whilst having an iPhone contract and buying the occasional latte (don't think she ever bought smashed avacado though, more haloumi).
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    rick_chasey said:

    Pross said:

    but I still don't think your mid 30s mate unable to buy a one bedroom flat is typical nationwide either.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47070020

    Pre panny d figures (2019)

    Some 38% of 25 to 34-year-olds are homeowners, down from 55% a decade earlier, in part owing to rising house prices.


    I'd say it's fairly typical.
    Not really, that's a 10 year age range and your mate is at the top end.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Look if you want to just decide for yourself and ignore the stats that's fine, but don't go around saying people who are constructing arguments based off them that they're wrong.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:



    Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.

    If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.

    I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.

    He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.

    it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
    It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).
    Brilliant
    Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?
    No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.

    The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:

    "That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."

    Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
    Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.
    Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!

    I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
    That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?

    I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    The fact that it is so different in the south of England is a relatively modern phenomenon, but it has become less affordable since the mid 90s everywhere.



  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:



    Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.

    If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.

    I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.

    He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.

    it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
    It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).
    Brilliant
    Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?
    No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.

    The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:

    "That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."

    Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
    Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.
    Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!

    I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
    That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?

    I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
    No one is saying its not possible Pross or that people under 30 can't own a home, just that it's harder than before because the gap between average wage and average house price has never been higher.

    That is a fact.

    It's also a fact that fewer young people own homes that previously.
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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,633
    edited September 2021
    Coincidentally since it is the topic of the day. One son has just bought* a 3 bedroom semi with garden for £130k fixed price today. Shows the disparity through the country.

    *Subject to usual legal stuff.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    skyblueamateur said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    Do people really spend £150 on coffee a month? I feel almost prehistoric.

    I would have rattled out at least £150 most weekends on the tear in my 20's tbf but that seems better value then on coffee. Pffft.
    Most youngsters I work with must spend £100 a week on coffee, breakfast and lunch
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,670
    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:



    Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.

    If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.

    I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.

    He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.

    it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
    It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).
    Brilliant
    Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?
    No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.

    The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:

    "That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."

    Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
    Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.
    Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!

    I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
    That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?

    I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
    I don't think anyone has said it is impossible Pross, just that less people can do it now than used to be able to. You are doing precisely what you are complaining about and refusing to believe the evidence because it contradicts your bubble.

    Mid £20k is above average for 23 and female, probably not for a grad - I don't know.
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  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    So the millenial starts work at 24 and spends 3 years paying off the extra debt they incurred whilst DB was working. In those 6 years DB does not buy a poncey coffee and instead saves £2k a year. By the time he has his mortgage approved he will have a 10% deposit to live next door to Pross's daughter all before his 27th birthday.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    surrey_commuter said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    So the millenial starts work at 24 and spends 3 years paying off the extra debt they incurred whilst DB was working. In those 6 years DB does not buy a poncey coffee and instead saves £2k a year. By the time he has his mortgage approved he will have a 10% deposit to live next door to Pross's daughter all before his 27th birthday.
    If you get can jobs in cheap areas, great. I suspect that, by virtue of their cost, that there aren't *that many jobs* there, as if they were, it wouldn't be so cheap, right?
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    elbowloh said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:



    Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.

    If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.

    I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.

    He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.

    it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
    It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).
    Brilliant
    Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?
    No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.

    The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:

    "That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."

    Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
    Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.
    Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!

    I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
    That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?

    I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
    No one is saying its not possible Pross or that people under 30 can't own a home, just that it's harder than before because the gap between average wage and average house price has never been higher.

    That is a fact.

    It's also a fact that fewer young people own homes that previously.
    I've already agreed that's the case - my initial point was that it is worse in some areas than others. I was just trying to provide a counterpoint to the examples of people in their mid 30s not being able to buy because they are living in the most expensive parts of the country.

    I know that I couldn't have bought my first house in Chepstow now for example as the market in Bristol and removal of bridge tolls has pushed up prices in that area but (if I was in an equivalent role now to what I was in my early 20s) I could buy something similar in Newport still.

    An optimist would maybe hope that a move to flexible working might rebalance the market but, as we've seen with the hope that people would become less reliant on cars, I fear that things will just go back to their old ways sooner rather than later.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    surrey_commuter said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    So the millenial starts work at 24 and spends 3 years paying off the extra debt they incurred whilst DB was working. In those 6 years DB does not buy a poncey coffee and instead saves £2k a year. By the time he has his mortgage approved he will have a 10% deposit to live next door to Pross's daughter all before his 27th birthday.
    in 6 years house prices may have crept up. Plus it's a pretty miserable existence, spending your best years living like a pauper.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    rick_chasey said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    So the millenial starts work at 24 and spends 3 years paying off the extra debt they incurred whilst DB was working. In those 6 years DB does not buy a poncey coffee and instead saves £2k a year. By the time he has his mortgage approved he will have a 10% deposit to live next door to Pross's daughter all before his 27th birthday.
    If you get can jobs in cheap areas, great. I suspect that, by virtue of their cost, that there aren't *that many jobs* there, as if they were, it wouldn't be so cheap, right?
    I live within a 45 minute drive / train journey of Cardiff or Bristol, it's not the back of beyond. Prices have risen quite a lot around here but if you are prepared to commute an hour you can still pick up a 3 bed terrace in some Valley towns for less than £50k (needing work but habitable) and still have the pick of a decent job market in Cardiff. I had a colleague who bought his first place about 5 years ago as a new graduate in one of these areas. The mortgage was less than some people pay in Council Tax.

    It's choices really, living in some rundown Valley town with rubbish local amenities and travelling an hour each day to work isn't for everyone but I guess what I'm trying to say is the option is still there.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    shirley_basso said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    So the millenial starts work at 24 and spends 3 years paying off the extra debt they incurred whilst DB was working. In those 6 years DB does not buy a poncey coffee and instead saves £2k a year. By the time he has his mortgage approved he will have a 10% deposit to live next door to Pross's daughter all before his 27th birthday.
    in 6 years house prices may have crept up. Plus it's a pretty miserable existence, spending your best years living like a pauper.
    Apparently my house has gone up by nearly 12% since November!
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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:



    Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.

    If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.

    I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.

    He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.

    it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
    It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).
    Brilliant
    Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?
    No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.

    The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:

    "That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."

    Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
    Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.
    Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!

    I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
    That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?

    I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
    I don't think anyone has said it is impossible Pross, just that less people can do it now than used to be able to. You are doing precisely what you are complaining about and refusing to believe the evidence because it contradicts your bubble.

    Mid £20k is above average for 23 and female, probably not for a grad - I don't know.
    Not really, I accept that it is very much an issue in parts of the country (and more parts than it was 20 years ago) but if people really want to get on the property ladder they can do it albeit it may require sacrifices like living and working somewhere less desireable / moving away from friends and family. I couldn't afford to buy in the south-east even at my stage of life and being an above average earner. I'm always in wonder how people in normal jobs managed to do it as even when I was the 20 something I couldn't have got on the ladder there.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    shirley_basso said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    So the millenial starts work at 24 and spends 3 years paying off the extra debt they incurred whilst DB was working. In those 6 years DB does not buy a poncey coffee and instead saves £2k a year. By the time he has his mortgage approved he will have a 10% deposit to live next door to Pross's daughter all before his 27th birthday.
    in 6 years house prices may have crept up. Plus it's a pretty miserable existence, spending your best years living like a pauper.
    How did you manage when you bought your first place?

    I had to stop regular nights out with my mates and other treats to get the deposit saved up on my first place and thereafter in order to afford the mortgage payments. I'm not sure when this golden age was where people could just pull together a deposit for a house whilst carrying on with their previous social life. Maybe I've just always been rubbish and managing my money.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,692
    rick_chasey said:

    Look if you want to just decide for yourself and ignore the stats that's fine, but don't go around saying people who are constructing arguments based off them that they're wrong.

    All I'm saying is that 38% of 25-34 year olds is likely to be skewed much more towards the 25 year olds e.g. it could be 10% of 25 year olds but 70% of 30 year olds in which case your 33 year old mate wouldn't be typical. It's a big age range coverage probably the part of a career where earnings and life decisions are accelerating at their fastest.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,090
    elbowloh said:

    TheBigBean said:

    elbowloh said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I also think people don't want to. I love parenthood, but there's a lot to be said about being a double-income couple with no kids.

    I hear ya.

    Wife and I travelled the world together, not quite at the drop of a hat, but we often did one nighters in places like Oslo, but also trips out into the wilds and -10degree temps looking for wildlife. Couldn't do that with the kids.


    That is a matter of opinion. Sure, yours is a mainstream view, but people do do that sort of stuff with kids.
    You could do it, but would be much less inclined and would take more planning, cost more and you probably wouldn't slum it as much (we often stayed in hostels). We also sat outside in those minus 10 degree temps in the the mountains of Transylvania for about 4 or 5 hours straight in the hope of seeing lynx or wolves. We also stayed overnight in bear hides with no running water or electricity and sawdust toilets. Would certainly not do that with kids, and definitely not a 7 month old!

    I would have thought a lot of that would be fun for kids. Yes, probably a bit more planning and only an hour or two looking for a lynx and the rest of the time doing something more kid focused.

    Also, you can stay in hostels with kids although probably not the backpacker style ones.

    The main hassle for me now is school holidays are a lot more limiting. Also, I would probably avoid anywhere with a lot of malaria.

    Covid, of course, has ruined it all!
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Meanwhile a load of snowflakes are crying about someone calling them names?

    I don't see any crying, just a senior Labour politician being abusive and unprofessional. IMO she has only been topped for Labour crass behaviour in recent times by John Prescott (previous deputy PM) chinning someone who threw an egg at him.

    It also demonstrated quite neatly why Labour are screwed. Lefties like Rayner seem to assume that they are morally superior to anyone who votes tory and cannot/do not want to understand why so many did at the last election. I hope she doesn't get sacked as she is nearly as big a liability as Corbyn :)

    Maybe Starmer tolerates her because she says the stuff that he daren't and he can always make her the fall guy if public opinion goes against them?
    Rude maybe, but the Tory's have consistently shown themselves to be incompetent and corrupt over the last few years, particularly over Brexit, COVID contracts, planning and the honours system. I know what's worse.
    I think Rayner and starmer could give the Tories a good run on the corruption scale to meet their ends. They just have not had the chance to do so. Self interest is always running as the say.
    Starmer had 5 years as DPP - was there any evidence of his potential for massive corruption in that role?
    The problem is that you have to tackle each and every case of corruption as they come. Having this rose tinted view that labour is somehow less corrupt than any other party is not born out by evidence. Look back at the expenses scandal and there were MPs of all persuasion on the fiddle. There was a Labour MP convicted for lying about a speeding ticket the other year and refused to resign. There are countless examples of new labours corruption. Christ they even lied about intelligence to invade another country. By all means call out the Tories for corruption but don't pretend that other parties don't have this problem too. When Rayner is finished calling Boris scum you might find her next victim is closer to home.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Pross said:

    shirley_basso said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    So the millenial starts work at 24 and spends 3 years paying off the extra debt they incurred whilst DB was working. In those 6 years DB does not buy a poncey coffee and instead saves £2k a year. By the time he has his mortgage approved he will have a 10% deposit to live next door to Pross's daughter all before his 27th birthday.
    in 6 years house prices may have crept up. Plus it's a pretty miserable existence, spending your best years living like a pauper.
    How did you manage when you bought your first place?

    I had to stop regular nights out with my mates and other treats to get the deposit saved up on my first place and thereafter in order to afford the mortgage payments. I'm not sure when this golden age was where people could just pull together a deposit for a house whilst carrying on with their previous social life. Maybe I've just always been rubbish and managing my money.
    I was lucky (inheritance and did move home for a year to save).

    Lost it all when I sold and have had just finishing resaving from scratch to start again!
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,678
    pangolin said:

    Jezyboy said:

    rjsterry said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    shirley_basso said:

    I don't think £5 per day £150/month, £2,000/annum is going to buy a house

    On its own it might not, but you have to start somewhere.
    The most expensive coffee Starbucks sell is about £3.50, and it would be weekdays only, so make that £60-70/month for the committed caffeine junky. A 1-bed ex-council flat in Shadwell will cost you £800 a month to rent.
    My favourite example of this was a
    Facebook video that suggested that you go without your flat white, and put the money in a bank earning 8 per cent interest.

    I'm sure a while back everyone was in a panic because with lockdown and no one buying prets, suddenly loads of land was worthless. So do people want younguns to buy coffee or not!
    On a macro level the conservatives want coffee and sandwich buying to continue at a high volume to fuel the economy.

    On an individual level anyone who does this is stupid and doesn't deserve to own a home.

    It's quite simple.
    The portion of salary that gets chucked into housing does seem somewhat of a waste.

    Not sure how you fix it.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,302
    john80 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    john80 said:

    elbowloh said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Jezyboy said:

    Meanwhile a load of snowflakes are crying about someone calling them names?

    I don't see any crying, just a senior Labour politician being abusive and unprofessional. IMO she has only been topped for Labour crass behaviour in recent times by John Prescott (previous deputy PM) chinning someone who threw an egg at him.

    It also demonstrated quite neatly why Labour are screwed. Lefties like Rayner seem to assume that they are morally superior to anyone who votes tory and cannot/do not want to understand why so many did at the last election. I hope she doesn't get sacked as she is nearly as big a liability as Corbyn :)

    Maybe Starmer tolerates her because she says the stuff that he daren't and he can always make her the fall guy if public opinion goes against them?
    Rude maybe, but the Tory's have consistently shown themselves to be incompetent and corrupt over the last few years, particularly over Brexit, COVID contracts, planning and the honours system. I know what's worse.
    I think Rayner and starmer could give the Tories a good run on the corruption scale to meet their ends. They just have not had the chance to do so. Self interest is always running as the say.
    Starmer had 5 years as DPP - was there any evidence of his potential for massive corruption in that role?
    The problem is that you have to tackle each and every case of corruption as they come. Having this rose tinted view that labour is somehow less corrupt than any other party is not born out by evidence. Look back at the expenses scandal and there were MPs of all persuasion on the fiddle. There was a Labour MP convicted for lying about a speeding ticket the other year and refused to resign. There are countless examples of new labours corruption. Christ they even lied about intelligence to invade another country. By all means call out the Tories for corruption but don't pretend that other parties don't have this problem too. When Rayner is finished calling Boris scum you might find her next victim is closer to home.
    You might be interested in who prosecuted those Labour MPs for expenses offences.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078
    Its also worth considering that buying a house now seems so unobtainable to young people that they decide not to even try and take the view that they might as well spend their money on things they enjoy and having some fun. The aspiration has gone.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
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  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    edited September 2021
    elbowloh said:

    Its also worth considering that buying a house now seems so unobtainable to young people that they decide not to even try and take the view that they might as well spend their money on things they enjoy and having some fun. The aspiration has gone.

    Good point. My main regret is being a bit wasteful with my spare cash, not that I should have saved more, but ideally p!ssed a bit less up the wall and done something a bit more meaningful (more ski holidays!)
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,928
    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:



    Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.

    If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.

    I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.

    He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.

    it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
    It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).
    Brilliant
    Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?
    No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.

    The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:

    "That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."

    Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
    Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.
    Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!

    I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
    That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?

    I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
    Not for me. Had I not moved out anyway it would have been strongly suggested that once I had a proper job I should be packing my bags.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,633
    edited September 2021
    rjsterry said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    pangolin said:

    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:



    Bejeezus you must work in a strange location. All of the 20's and early 30's (mostly pre-children) I've worked with in the past 10 years (various offices) walk into the office every morning with their takeaway bag and cup of coffee.

    If people think a coffee out every day is holding them back from home ownership I don't think they really understand the size of deposits required.

    I'll offer an example. I have a friend who's 33 and currently lives with his parents. He earns above average, but not by much.

    He's currently looking to buy a 1 bed. Only, the price of the houses are literally rising as quickly as he can save, so the cost of the flats near where he works are continuously out of reach.

    it is ludicrous that this point is contested. All the published data on this is crystal clear. Even the literature coming out of banks points to this. There are now special products which are fairly popular where parents can help underwrite mortgages for their grown up children to compensate for the high LTV ratio.
    It still depends massively on geography though. My daughter (23) bought her first house, a 3 bed semi, a few months ago for about £130k. Good sized ex-Council house with a large garden and located on the edge of a really nice park so no risk to the views over the countryside. Admittedly she was lucky enough to have inherited money to cover the deposit and got a 75% LTV mortgage but she would have saved a 10% deposit within 12 months. Her mortgage costs less than many of her friends were paying for their cars (and about the same as she is now paying for her car having got a new one after moving in and getting the house sorted).
    Brilliant
    Did you deliberately ignore the next part of the sentence?
    No but the next part isn't exactly helping your case either, as SB pointed out.

    The conversation was broadly about people being unable to buy on their own home as young as they could do in the past. Rick said earlier in the thread:

    "That, combined with the cost of homeownership makes growing up just very different. A good proportion of people, especially ironically those who want good paying careers, can't expect to own homes without help from their parents until deep into their 30s."

    Which is true. And a lot of the responses have been variations on "work harder", "it was tough for us as well" or "but my daughter bought a house (with money she inherited)". We even had DB inform us that phones used to be heavier in his day.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you are making given the context. Yes, some parts of the country are cheaper than others. Yes, some people spend a lot on cars.
    Not really, she would have had a 10% deposit within 12 months (was already half way there). This was mainly as she had been living with us for the previous 15 months, the pandemic also helped take away the opportunities to spend though she was pretty good anyway. Her salary was fairly typical for a new graduate I would guess (mid £20k). Before she moved back home she was renting and that was eating up all her money and I think that's one of the big issues, a lot of people who go to Uni don't want to move back home afterwards and therefore are having to spend money on somewhere to live in the short-term. To sound like an old fart, when I was that age very few of my friends went to Uni and most lived with their parents until they got their own place.
    Right so it's perfectly possible as long as you have no living costs for almost 3 years, or inherit the money. And want to buy somewhere well below average price, and have an above average salary for your age. It's amazing more people haven't cottoned on to this scheme!

    I'm only pulling your leg but this is not really helping your case.
    That's how it was always done though surely? I lived at home until I got married at 24 having been working from 16. Is £23-24k really above average for a graduate one year out of Uni?

    I'm certainly not arguing it's possible everywhere just that it has become almost a 'fact' among some on here that you can't own your own place unless you're over 30 becuase they don't accept there is a world outside their own bubble. I'm actually surprised by how some of my younger colleagues have managed to buy places in Bristol or Cheltenham though as I don't think I could manage that even now.
    Not for me. Had I not moved out anyway it would have been strongly suggested that once I had a proper job I should be packing my bags.
    Cycling friend of mine (and his sister) was told by his mother after finishing high school he was an adult and had two weeks to move out.
    Sounds harsh but he said it was the best thing to happen to him. Got on the ladder early.
    No doubt helped by the availability of 100% mortgages.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,928
    edited September 2021


    🤦🏻‍♂️
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,928
    edited September 2021
    Oops.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition

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