Join the Labour Party and save your country!
Comments
-
Any opposition has the same prob, come up with good ideas and policies and gov can pinch them, take the credit and come election time everyone forgets who came up with the idea.
LibDems classic example and they were in power sort of!0 -
Any opposition has the same prob, come up with good ideas and policies and gov can pinch them, take the credit and come election time everyone forgets who came up with the idea.
LibDems classic example and they were in power sort of!
But it also helps to have some ideas, and it helps with floating voters if they perceive you to have some ideas, rather than just moaning about everything often with no realistic way of dealing with things.
Let's take the budget deficit as an example. It has been careering like an oil tanker in the wrong direction for many years now showing just how much trouble we (and the rest of the world) is in. Growth, if there is any, is tiny globally so there's not much hope of risk/speculating which leaves cuts and beneficial investment as primary tools. I can't actually remember seeing anything from Labour about how they plan to tackle this problem. Not one. They just avoid the elephant in the room, but unfortunately this is something that is the biggest threat to future welfare for ALL UK citizens, not just the poor, not just the rich.0 -
Any opposition has the same prob, come up with good ideas and policies and gov can pinch them, take the credit and come election time everyone forgets who came up with the idea.
LibDems classic example and they were in power sort of!
But it also helps to have some ideas, and it helps with floating voters if they perceive you to have some ideas, rather than just moaning about everything often with no realistic way of dealing with things.
Let's take the budget deficit as an example. It has been careering like an oil tanker in the wrong direction for many years now showing just how much trouble we (and the rest of the world) is in. Growth, if there is any, is tiny globally so there's not much hope of risk/speculating which leaves cuts and beneficial investment as primary tools. I can't actually remember seeing anything from Labour about how they plan to tackle this problem. Not one. They just avoid the elephant in the room, but unfortunately this is something that is the biggest threat to future welfare for ALL UK citizens, not just the poor, not just the rich.
Labours basic plan was to eliminate the deficit BUT over a very slightly longer period, this was poo hooed by the tories and they won, Ossie then extended the time frame to one which is actually longer than labours, go figure?0 -
Yeah but that was before the GE, which was fought over the middle ground. Now Labour seem to have retreated from that, the Tories have moved in. Probably because they realise that their mandate isn't that huge and they have already had a mauling over benefit changes.
It's a bit of a gamble, but probably a good punt that Labour will be in the wilderness for years. Now all GO has to do is hope the economy improves and the money rolls in...Ecrasez l’infame0 -
Any opposition has the same prob, come up with good ideas and policies and gov can pinch them, take the credit and come election time everyone forgets who came up with the idea.
LibDems classic example and they were in power sort of!
But it also helps to have some ideas, and it helps with floating voters if they perceive you to have some ideas, rather than just moaning about everything often with no realistic way of dealing with things.
Let's take the budget deficit as an example. It has been careering like an oil tanker in the wrong direction for many years now showing just how much trouble we (and the rest of the world) is in. Growth, if there is any, is tiny globally so there's not much hope of risk/speculating which leaves cuts and beneficial investment as primary tools. I can't actually remember seeing anything from Labour about how they plan to tackle this problem. Not one. They just avoid the elephant in the room, but unfortunately this is something that is the biggest threat to future welfare for ALL UK citizens, not just the poor, not just the rich.
Labours basic plan was to eliminate the deficit BUT over a very slightly longer period, this was poo hooed by the tories and they won, Ossie then extended the time frame to one which is actually longer than labours, go figure?
Which seems to indicate that the deficit is rather a large problem, so just imagine the level of debt we could now be in under Labour. We have to remember why we are in this mess. Primarily the worldwide recession caused by the banking crisis, but also because 'the cupboard was bare' after Gordon's spending spree increased the budget deficit massively during a time when there was worldwide growth before the crash. By far more than the growth he managed in the UK.
Its very simple, we have two choices.
1) Live like paupers for a while
2) Live like paupers for decades
I know which I'd prefer.0 -
i dont understand your logic, had labour won, Miliband would be in power not Corbyn & DonaldDuck, their plan as i said, was to cut defict over a 1 or 2yr longer timescale, George has increased that by 5 years, labour s plan was to use the money to invest, idea being to boost economy.
As GO said yesterday, Tories are the nation of builders so he has pretty much pinched their clothes.
Should the OBRs forecast be wrong, then it we ll be paying for his mistakes for far longer, as you ve pointed out.
anyhow is the OBR independant? the change in forecasting has been unbelieveably lucky for Georgie.0 -
i dont understand your logic, had labour won, Miliband would be in power not Corbyn & DonaldDuck, their plan as i said, was to cut defict over a 1 or 2yr longer timescale, George has increased that by 5 years, labour s plan was to use the money to invest, idea being to boost economy.
As GO said yesterday, Tories are the nation of builders so he has pretty much pinched their clothes.
Should the OBRs forecast be wrong, then it we ll be paying for his mistakes for far longer, as you ve pointed out.
anyhow is the OBR independant? the change in forecasting has been unbelieveably lucky for Georgie.
The logic is very simple. There is not much money swishing around in order to buy the products/services that we invest our 'borrowed' money in.
With cuts at a much lower scale, the budget deficit will increase at a more rapid rate than it currently is.
Coupled with the future need for a larger % of GDP on welfare due to an ageing population, without the cuts that have/will be made, the country will struggle for far longer.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that with no money swishing round the world the chances of investments paying off is vastly reduced.
I fully agree with the cuts, and more if necessary in order to get the country back on track. I'm not saying everything the Tories have done is correct and/or fair, they clearly have less compassion than I would like...and no I didn't vote Tory last time, nor will I next time. I voted for Clegg as I liked his balance of cuts vs humanity.
As I mentioned earlier, Brown went on an investment spending spree that did aid growth but at a hugely lower level than it added to how much the UK pays in interest every year on borrowings. Pre-crash.
So, when the world is in austerity, the Euro is on its knees, bailouts...to not make savage cuts and risk the money on hope is sheer stupidity.0 -
Quite, the idea Labour plan is that we can spend our way of of a problem caused by spending more than we earn. Can anyone else see the flaw in that plan?
Ive said it on here before, if more state spending was such great economic stimulus, countries should just borrow to the hilt and spend money like there's no tomorrow then we would all be rich. Doesn't work."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Just in case some of you are too busy at the sales, here are the things hidden within the budget yesterday.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34927158
http://news.sky.com/story/1594887/osborne-cuts-to-make-2-6m-families-worse-offThe above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
In the meantime, if anyone missed John 'Citizen Smith' McDonnell and his reference to the most prolifically murderous communist dictator in history, here you go:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/26/john-mcdonnell-accuses-mps-hypocrisy-over-response-mao-zedong-stunt
Telegraph was predictably amused:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/autumn-statement/12016784/John-McDonnell-waving-Maos-Little-Red-Book-in-the-Commons.-What-could-possibly-go-wrong.html
Even the Guardian thinks he's a tw@t
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/25/john-mcdonnell-mao-little-red-book-dirty-trick
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/nov/26/big-red-faces-for-labour-after-mcdonnells-little-red-book-joke
To give Labour some credit, some of them looked distinctly uncomfortable about it.
Anyone here still of the opinion that Corbyn's Labour are fit to govern?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Quite, the idea Labour plan is that we can spend our way of of a problem caused by spending more than we earn. Can anyone else see the flaw in that plan?
Ive said it on here before, if more state spending was such great economic stimulus, countries should just borrow to the hilt and spend money like there's no tomorrow then we would all be rich. Doesn't work.
Interesting comment given that we ve just had (you ve just had) one of the furthest Left Wing Spending Reviews of the decade....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Quite, the idea Labour plan is that we can spend our way of of a problem caused by spending more than we earn. Can anyone else see the flaw in that plan?
Ive said it on here before, if more state spending was such great economic stimulus, countries should just borrow to the hilt and spend money like there's no tomorrow then we would all be rich. Doesn't work.
Interesting comment given that we ve just had (you ve just had) one of the furthest Left Wing Spending Reviews of the decade....
The budget presented yesterday , was very much like Ed Balls budget proposals pre election this year or so say the IFS.
So those that say you should nt be throwing money at problems need to look again at who they ll be voting for in 2020
there is always a balance to be struck. 0 -
[quote="Stevo 666[/quote]
Ive said it on here before, if more state spending was such great economic stimulus, countries should just borrow to the hilt and spend money like there's no tomorrow then we would all be rich.[/quote]
Within reason yeah.
That's exactly what the US has done.
If the investment returns are higher than the cost of spending, why wouldn't you?
As long as that rule is well adhered to.0 -
There's a subtle difference between the Autumn statement and spending money like there's no tomorrow. The police and security spending is a reaction to current events. The reversal of the tax credit cuts was more political pragmatism given the likely reaction.Quite, the idea Labour plan is that we can spend our way of of a problem caused by spending more than we earn. Can anyone else see the flaw in that plan?
Ive said it on here before, if more state spending was such great economic stimulus, countries should just borrow to the hilt and spend money like there's no tomorrow then we would all be rich. Doesn't work.
Interesting comment given that we ve just had (you ve just had) one of the furthest Left Wing Spending Reviews of the decade....
The one which might be expensive for businessnis the apprentice levy. Unlessmof course they put up prices/reduce pay rise to compensate."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
See my post above.Quite, the idea Labour plan is that we can spend our way of of a problem caused by spending more than we earn. Can anyone else see the flaw in that plan?
Ive said it on here before, if more state spending was such great economic stimulus, countries should just borrow to the hilt and spend money like there's no tomorrow then we would all be rich. Doesn't work.
Interesting comment given that we ve just had (you ve just had) one of the furthest Left Wing Spending Reviews of the decade....
The budget presented yesterday , was very much like Ed Balls budget proposals pre election this year or so say the IFS.
So those that say you should nt be throwing money at problems need to look again at who they ll be voting for in 2020 there is always a balance to be struck.
Also there is no credible alternatice to the tories. New Old Labour are an unelectable shambles and there are no other UK political parties of any consequence. Dont vote for a bunch of losers, rejoin the winning team "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
[quote="Stevo 666
Ive said it on here before, if more state spending was such great economic stimulus, countries should just borrow to the hilt and spend money like there's no tomorrow then we would all be rich.[/quote]
Within reason yeah.
That's exactly what the US has done.
If the investment returns are higher than the cost of spending, why wouldn't you?
As long as that rule is well adhered to.[/quote]
That's a big as Joelsim has also said."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Meanwhile, the Labour rebellion against Corbyn gathers pace...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/air-strikes-in-syria-jeremy-corbyn-faces-shadow-cabinet-revolt-over-opposition-to-british-military-a6750651.html"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Meanwhile, the Labour rebellion against Corbyn gathers pace...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/air-strikes-in-syria-jeremy-corbyn-faces-shadow-cabinet-revolt-over-opposition-to-british-military-a6750651.html
You must be having an Orgasm everytime you find one of these gems!
He was voted in by a huge margin, even allowing for your duplicitous vote! the membership will no doubt punish anyone who kicks him out, troubled times ahead for Labour.
whats your view on bombing Syria?0 -
Don't know what We're now looking for a vote to sanction the bombing of Syria to destroy IS. Waste of time.Meanwhile, the Labour rebellion against Corbyn gathers pace...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/air-strikes-in-syria-jeremy-corbyn-faces-shadow-cabinet-revolt-over-opposition-to-british-military-a6750651.html
You must be having an Orgasm everytime you find one of these gems!
He was voted in by a huge margin, even allowing for your duplicitous vote! the membership will no doubt punish anyone who kicks him out, troubled times ahead for Labour.
whats your view on bombing Syria?
If you were to kill every last member of IS in Syria and Iraq how are you going to sort them living in Bradford,Leicester,Nottingham,Birmingham and around the world?
Another point, these politicians are happy to send "cannon fodder" into the jaws of death but, who is selling and profiting from the sale of arms to IS. Who is profiting from the purchase/sale of oil to IS. The men sending soldiers to fight know who both of these groups are. Sort them out first. Or are they the friends of the duplicious politicians, I think so. Money talks and life is cheap, especially ours.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Plus this:
I suspect it's because they're duplicious,unscrupulous,greedy,uncaring b@stards.The likes of us don't know the pies these pillars of society have their fingers in. Call me a cynic but I don't trust any of them, we are expendable and are looked upon purely as commodities to use. And this country is one of the best FFS.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
What Countries produce weapons?Another point, these politicians are happy to send "cannon fodder" into the jaws of death but, who is selling and profiting from the sale of arms to IS.
What Countries are pushing for them to be used?
Hmmmm.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I've said my pennysworth on Syria in the other thread.Meanwhile, the Labour rebellion against Corbyn gathers pace...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/air-strikes-in-syria-jeremy-corbyn-faces-shadow-cabinet-revolt-over-opposition-to-british-military-a6750651.html
You must be having an Orgasm everytime you find one of these gems!
He was voted in by a huge margin, even allowing for your duplicitous vote! the membership will no doubt punish anyone who kicks him out, troubled times ahead for Labour.
whats your view on bombing Syria?
Looks like there is a plot to oust him brewing if some of the stories today are to be believed. The descent of the PLP has taken even me by surprise, but I did predict civil was in the party if JC was elected. Wonder if I will get a chance to vote for him agin or whether it'll be a different Trotskyite liability
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I've said my pennysworth on Syria in the other thread.Meanwhile, the Labour rebellion against Corbyn gathers pace...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/air-strikes-in-syria-jeremy-corbyn-faces-shadow-cabinet-revolt-over-opposition-to-british-military-a6750651.html
You must be having an Orgasm everytime you find one of these gems!
He was voted in by a huge margin, even allowing for your duplicitous vote! the membership will no doubt punish anyone who kicks him out, troubled times ahead for Labour.
whats your view on bombing Syria?
Looks like there is a plot to oust him brewing if some of the stories today are to be believed. The descent of the PLP has taken even me by surprise, but I did predict civil was in the party if JC was elected. Wonder if I will get a chance to vote for him agin or whether it'll be a different Trotskyite liability
More interested in your response to Corbyns email, had yours yet? and what will your advice be? its a serious matter after all.0 -
Oddly enough not had one on that subject. My last email from Jezza was his usual effort to gather questions for PMQ. Maybe this one didn't go out to the bargain basement £3 registered supporters?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
-
Content of Corbyn isn't an issue. It's positive to hear a politician who tries to take a responsible, non-populist position that is a) well thought out and b) has broader interest beyond party politics.
Corbyn is just a sh!te leader of a mainstream political party.
That's the difference. That the spectator has to write an article defending the content because it's been interpreted incorrectly illustrates the point.
Perception is reality in politics.0 -
I've been looking back at what some of the Corbyn apologists said about him on this thread around the time that he was elected leader and having a good chuckle. I might have to start quoting a few of the more laughable ones "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
-
Poor Labour. The PLP think things can't get any worse and then someone thinks it's a good idea to get Red Ken on the telly this week. 0
-
Missed that - what gems of wisdom is he going treat us to? Maybe something about fair treatment for people with mental health issues?Poor Labour. The PLP think things can't get any worse and then someone thinks it's a good idea to get Red Ken on the telly this week.
Have to say I look forward to reading the daily political news these days Next few weeks will be interesting and entertaining. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Actually, just read it in the Torygraph - Red Ken saying that the 7/7 bombers gave their lives for what they believed in. That's bound to turn public opinion in favour of Corbyn :roll:
Get him on again next week..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
