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It's best that people North of the river continue to believe that, it keeps the beardy sandal-wearing Islington set well away from usKen's excuse for being a knut seems to be his background, growing up in South London.The veteran Labour politician initially refused to retract his comments, accusing Jones of “wimping around”, telling him to “get over it” and blaming his own south London background for the fact he is rude back when someone is rude to him
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/18/ken-livingstone-backtracks-on-apology-over-psychiatric-help-remarks
So all you on here from sarf of the river are a bunch of knuts.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Vote Labour and this guy wants to be Chancellor. Hand picked by Jezza.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/19/john-mcdonnell-denies-backing-call-to-end-mi5-and-disarm-police0 -
Vote Labour and this guy wants to be Chancellor. Hand picked by Jezza.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/19/john-mcdonnell-denies-backing-call-to-end-mi5-and-disarm-police
the gift that keeps giving!!! eh?
as you already know, Bally i think we spend far too much on defence and deny EVER calling for increases in spending, i would also like to disarm the police and get rid of Mi5 :shock:
he is at the very least guilty of stupidity, dont these people have a fuggin brain and read what is put in front of them?0 -
Vote Labour and this guy wants to be Chancellor. Hand picked by Jezza.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/19/john-mcdonnell-denies-backing-call-to-end-mi5-and-disarm-police
the gift that keeps giving!!! eh?
as you already know, Bally i think we spend far too much on defence and deny EVER calling for increases in spending, i would also like to disarm the police and get rid of Mi5 :shock:
he is at the very least guilty of stupidity, dont these people have a fuggin brain and read what is put in front of them?
Even accepting that he didn't read it before posing, he knew what the organisation stood for and their beliefs.
Likewise Jezza and this mob.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-faces-prospect-of-resignations-after-stop-the-war-says-paris-reaped-whirlwind-of-a6737621.html
These are the people that Corbyn and his acolytes mix with.0 -
As I said yesterday, the Daily Politics show 18/11/15 wqs tv gold.
Here is a sample of the support Jezza enjoys.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p038dz160 -
I like Corbyn, he seems a nice bloke and I'd much rather have a beer with him than the majority of politicians.
Having said that, he is already doomed. All I hear is the rise in Labour Party membership, when the reality is a hard-core of Corbyn fans has joined. The people that need to be swayed by Labour, the floating voters, will worry about the economy, defence, royalty, immigration rather than see eye-to-eye with Jezza.
Plus Labour couldn't agree on Christmas Tree decorations currently, which probably doesn't help their cause.
I predict Corbyn will be out within 6 months. Which will give Labour 4 years to come up with a coherent economic & spending plan. Clearly that will be beyond them too, that idiot Brown managed to add hundreds of billions to the debt mountain even before the banking crisis and the whole country has been paying/will be paying for that for years already. If Labour get in again, we face decades of hardship rather than a few years.0 -
I like Corbyn, he seems a nice bloke and I'd much rather have a beer with him than the majority of politicians.
Having said that, he is already doomed. All I hear is the rise in Labour Party membership, when the reality is a hard-core of Corbyn fans has joined. The people that need to be swayed by Labour, the floating voters, will worry about the economy, defence, royalty, immigration rather than see eye-to-eye with Jezza.
Plus Labour couldn't agree on Christmas Tree decorations currently, which probably doesn't help their cause.
I predict Corbyn will be out within 6 months. Which will give Labour 4 years to come up with a coherent economic & spending plan. Clearly that will be beyond them too, that idiot Brown managed to add hundreds of billions to the debt mountain even before the banking crisis and the whole country has been paying/will be paying for that for years already. If Labour get in again, we face decades of hardship rather than a few years.
You may well be right about Corbyn, the total disunity is shocking, though if he is ousted by his MPs then how will that stand with the membership?
Given the tories inability to negotiate with junior doctors (who you would hardly put in the same category as militant tendency) and the dangerous cuts to our police forces, wonder what the alternatives are 2020?0 -
I like Corbyn, he seems a nice bloke and I'd much rather have a beer with him than the majority of politicians.
Having said that, he is already doomed. All I hear is the rise in Labour Party membership, when the reality is a hard-core of Corbyn fans has joined. The people that need to be swayed by Labour, the floating voters, will worry about the economy, defence, royalty, immigration rather than see eye-to-eye with Jezza.
Plus Labour couldn't agree on Christmas Tree decorations currently, which probably doesn't help their cause.
I predict Corbyn will be out within 6 months. Which will give Labour 4 years to come up with a coherent economic & spending plan. Clearly that will be beyond them too, that idiot Brown managed to add hundreds of billions to the debt mountain even before the banking crisis and the whole country has been paying/will be paying for that for years already. If Labour get in again, we face decades of hardship rather than a few years.
You may well be right about Corbyn, the total disunity is shocking, though if he is ousted by his MPs then how will that stand with the membership?
Given the tories inability to negotiate with junior doctors (who you would hardly put in the same category as militant tendency) and the dangerous cuts to our police forces, wonder what the alternatives are 2020?
Yep the Tories aren't exactly covering themselves in glory either.
The problem is there is currently no alternative. Thoughtless vs clueless.
(BTW I didn't vote Tory last time, nor will I next time. I didn't vote Labour either and almost certainly won't next time unless they come up with a coherent economic plan which includes deficit reduction strategy instead of just opposing everything).0 -
Do you really think we are the only country having to make cuts to balance the books? It appears that France is having to cut deeper than we are despite their tax policies (which I will debunk separatelyI like Corbyn, he seems a nice bloke and I'd much rather have a beer with him than the majority of politicians.
Having said that, he is already doomed. All I hear is the rise in Labour Party membership, when the reality is a hard-core of Corbyn fans has joined. The people that need to be swayed by Labour, the floating voters, will worry about the economy, defence, royalty, immigration rather than see eye-to-eye with Jezza.
Plus Labour couldn't agree on Christmas Tree decorations currently, which probably doesn't help their cause.
I predict Corbyn will be out within 6 months. Which will give Labour 4 years to come up with a coherent economic & spending plan. Clearly that will be beyond them too, that idiot Brown managed to add hundreds of billions to the debt mountain even before the banking crisis and the whole country has been paying/will be paying for that for years already. If Labour get in again, we face decades of hardship rather than a few years.
You may well be right about Corbyn, the total disunity is shocking, though if he is ousted by his MPs then how will that stand with the membership?
Given the tories inability to negotiate with junior doctors (who you would hardly put in the same category as militant tendency) and the dangerous cuts to our police forces, wonder what the alternatives are 2020? )
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/euro-finance/french-deficit-and-public-debt-will-reach-new-records-2015-308840
Cuts to social protection and health as well...."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Obviously not working that well.
Tax revenues for October were much worse than expected.
Throws off any reasonable chance of Osbourne hitting his targets.
NHS is in a real pickle. Unexpectedly large deficit of £1.8bn. Big proportion of that (half) was an unexpected amount of part time agency use since NHS is struggling to recruit full time.
If the government keeps making the NHS staff do "more with less" (I.e. Work longer hours for less pay) then fewer people will want to work there.
It's a balancing act, and right now it's stumbling.0 -
Obviously not working that well.
Tax revenues for October were much worse than expected.
Throws off any reasonable chance of Osbourne hitting his targets.
NHS is in a real pickle. Unexpectedly large deficit of £1.8bn. Big proportion of that (half) was an unexpected amount of part time agency use since NHS is struggling to recruit full time.
If the government keeps making the NHS staff do "more with less" (I.e. Work longer hours for less pay) then fewer people will want to work there.
It's a balancing act, and right now it's stumbling.
Kind of shows just how dangerous the budget deficit is with global economic conditions and an ageing demographic as they are.0 -
It highlights something the more Keynsian orientated critics have been saying.
It's all very well focising on cutting expenditure, but cut it too much and you hurt overall growth (and thus, tax receipts).0 -
It highlights something the more Keynsian orientated critics have been saying.
It's all very well focising on cutting expenditure, but cut it too much and you hurt overall growth (and thus, tax receipts).
Fair enough, but when the global economy is on its knees in an unprecedented way, the chance of high growth is minimal. So what's the option? Even in a good period of global growth our friend Gordon Brown managed to increase debts by far more than he increased GDP and associated tax revenues.
To my mind there are two main challenges which have to be dealt with.
1) Balancing the budget deficit asap and then start to reduce it
2) To improve the awful balance of trade deficit to stop billions leaving the UK0 -
When you say "the debt" what do you mean?
U.K. overall indebtedness is higher then it's over been - just more of it in the private sector.0 -
When you say "the debt" what do you mean?
U.K. overall indebtedness is higher then it's over been - just more of it in the private sector.
OK PSBR.0 -
But the economy is growing. Faster than say France or Germany. There is way more to it than just spending public money: there are many other factors such as labour market flexibility, tax friendliness of the country etc. Otherwise all a country would need to do to get rich is leverage up and spend like there's no tomorrow. Which clealy does not work in real life.It highlights something the more Keynsian orientated critics have been saying.
It's all very well focising on cutting expenditure, but cut it too much and you hurt overall growth (and thus, tax receipts).
Businesses are the main engines of wealth generation, not governments. The governments job is to create the right conditions for businesses to generate wealth."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Labour's worst week yet...until next week?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12007610/Jeremy-Corbyn-has-presided-over-Labours-worst-ever-week.-Until-next-week.html"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Do you really think we are the only country having to make cuts to balance the books? It appears that France is having to cut deeper than we are despite their tax policies (which I will debunk separatelyYou may well be right about Corbyn, the total disunity is shocking, though if he is ousted by his MPs then how will that stand with the membership?
Given the tories inability to negotiate with junior doctors (who you would hardly put in the same category as militant tendency) and the dangerous cuts to our police forces, wonder what the alternatives are 2020? )
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/euro-finance/french-deficit-and-public-debt-will-reach-new-records-2015-308840
Cuts to social protection and health as well....
and there was me believing Mr hunt that the changes to doctors working hours was to introduce 7 day week nhs, something that if truely implemented would cost the nhs far far more, as youll need extra staff and beds from the porters upwards, just not extra junior Doc's but hey hoo, lets just p1$$ them off so they move to Aussie land, who are already targeting them in recruitment drives.
France is starting from a much higher level of social and health provision than we ve ever had, so no doubt has quite alot of fat to trim, which is good, no one wants waste.
i notice they are not going for a 20% reduction in Police budgets though 0 -
But the economy is growing. Faster than say France or Germany. There is way more to it than just spending public money: there are many other factors such as labour market flexibility, tax friendliness of the country etc. Otherwise all a country would need to do to get rich is leverage up and spend like there's no tomorrow. Which clealy does not work in real life.It highlights something the more Keynsian orientated critics have been saying.
It's all very well focising on cutting expenditure, but cut it too much and you hurt overall growth (and thus, tax receipts).
Businesses are the main engines of wealth generation, not governments. The governments job is to create the right conditions for businesses to generate wealth.
That's quite a narrow remit. (separately, if that's the case, i'm surprised at your previous positions on landlords & rent etc, because as we all know, rent seekers don't create wealth. Similarly, nor do inheritors of large sums of cash, typically... but that's a different story i guess)
I'd suggest a broader remit would be more appropriate - gov't remit is to maintain an economy with a target of sustainable, stable growth.
Less politically charged that way.
And given Gov't spending is roughly 40% of GDP, i wouldn't turn your nose up at the impact of gov't spending on overall GDP. Quite a lot! And think of all those private businesses who rely on servicing public services in one way or another.
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You seem to miss the point that public spending is only possible because of business and the tax that it generates, directly and indirectly. Therefore business needs to come first. Less public spending just means more money in the hands of business to invest, or in our hands to spend. I happen to believe that we know how to spend our money better tbhan the State.
Also, call me cynical but the people who usually want more public spending are not those who pay for it. If they did, they might not be so keen on the idea."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You seem to miss the point that public spending is only possible because of business and the tax that it generates, directly and indirectly. Therefore business needs to come first. Less public spending just means more money in the hands of business to invest, or in our hands to spend. I happen to believe that we know how to spend our money better tbhan the State.
Also, call me cynical but the people who usually want more public spending are not those who pay for it. If they did, they might not be so keen on the idea.
Not in my case, i ve lived and worked under higher tax economies and i like some of the good things they can afford to have.
the individual can only choose to spend their money so far, things like schools, police, roads libraries etc have to be provided collectively.
i can see your of the no such thing as society school of thought.0 -
Tories have a 15 point lead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/corbyns-favourability-rating-falls-in-comres-poll-for-the-independent-on-sunday-a6743516.html
I think Labour have a long term strategy. They will dump Jezza at the last minute and hope that the public will flock to the new leader in relief that they ain't Corbyn.0 -
And there are things that do not need to be provided collectively but are. As it is, the majority ofmour needs are provided by the private sector. In fact there are not many things that absolutely have to be provided by the state.You seem to miss the point that public spending is only possible because of business and the tax that it generates, directly and indirectly. Therefore business needs to come first. Less public spending just means more money in the hands of business to invest, or in our hands to spend. I happen to believe that we know how to spend our money better tbhan the State.
Also, call me cynical but the people who usually want more public spending are not those who pay for it. If they did, they might not be so keen on the idea.
Not in my case, i ve lived and worked under higher tax economies and i like some of the good things they can afford to have.
the individual can only choose to spend their money so far, things like schools, police, roads libraries etc have to be provided collectively.
i can see your of the no such thing as society school of thought.
There is such a thing as society but it doesn't have to be so bloody expensive. And you seem to be confusing society with the state."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not bad going in just over 2 monthsTories have a 15 point lead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/corbyns-favourability-rating-falls-in-comres-poll-for-the-independent-on-sunday-a6743516.html
I think Labour have a long term strategy. They will dump Jezza at the last minute and hope that the public will flock to the new leader in relief that they ain't Corbyn.
However no surprise there Bally. New Old Labour are showing theit true spots over things like ISIS and requests by certain senior shadow cabinet members to disarm the police and disband MI5. They lost the last election because the public didnt trust them on the economy. Add to that the lack of trust on keeping us safe and they are well and truly unelectable.
Even if they do somehow oust him, the Labour party electoral base (me included ) would most likely elect another hard left liability. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not bad going in just over 2 monthsTories have a 15 point lead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/corbyns-favourability-rating-falls-in-comres-poll-for-the-independent-on-sunday-a6743516.html
I think Labour have a long term strategy. They will dump Jezza at the last minute and hope that the public will flock to the new leader in relief that they ain't Corbyn.
However no surprise there Bally. New Old Labour are showing theit true spots over things like ISIS and requests by certain senior shadow cabinet members to disarm the police and disband MI5. They lost the last election because the public didnt trust them on the economy. Add to that the lack of trust on keeping us safe and they are well and truly unelectable.
Even if they do somehow oust him, the Labour party electoral base (me included ) would most likely elect another hard left liability.
If the PLP do manage to find a candidate, there is a very good chance that Corbyn would automatically be on any ballot paper and chances are, given the election set up, be elected again. 0 -
Not bad going in just over 2 monthsTories have a 15 point lead.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/corbyns-favourability-rating-falls-in-comres-poll-for-the-independent-on-sunday-a6743516.html
I think Labour have a long term strategy. They will dump Jezza at the last minute and hope that the public will flock to the new leader in relief that they ain't Corbyn.
However no surprise there Bally. New Old Labour are showing theit true spots over things like ISIS and requests by certain senior shadow cabinet members to disarm the police and disband MI5. They lost the last election because the public didnt trust them on the economy. Add to that the lack of trust on keeping us safe and they are well and truly unelectable.
Even if they do somehow oust him, the Labour party electoral base (me included ) would most likely elect another hard left liability.
If the PLP do manage to find a candidate, there is a very good chance that Corbyn would automatically be on any ballot paper and chances are, given the election set up, be elected again.
If at first you don't destroy your electoral chances, try, try again. Actually if that did happen it would provide almost irrefutable evidence for my point the lefties just don't learn. I do hope it happens :twisted:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
And there are things that do not need to be provided collectively but are. As it is, the majority ofmour needs are provided by the private sector. In fact there are not many things that absolutely have to be provided by the state.
There is such a thing as society but it doesn't have to be so bloody expensive. And you seem to be confusing society with the state.
Like what? all the major ones are very very expensive. expecting volunteers to run, say a libary justs leads to a post code lottery of these types of services, leafy boroughs still get them, inner cities lose them.
Given by far and away the most expensive DWP outlay are Pensions, Housing benefit and DLA and that i think your happy with policy on Pension increases and HB, as you dont want any form of rent control, which is the only way to curb rents in the short to medium term, that just leaves DLA, good luck with that.0 -
There are private and public forms of pensions and housing. Not sure what DLA is - do you mean disability allowance? If so, many people care privately for the disabled and within families. None of those are state monopolies and I cant see why they should be.
And there are things that do not need to be provided collectively but are. As it is, the majority ofmour needs are provided by the private sector. In fact there are not many things that absolutely have to be provided by the state.
There is such a thing as society but it doesn't have to be so bloody expensive. And you seem to be confusing society with the state.
Like what? all the major ones are very very expensive. expecting volunteers to run, say a libary justs leads to a post code lottery of these types of services, leafy boroughs still get them, inner cities lose them.
Given by far and away the most expensive DWP outlay are Pensions, Housing benefit and DLA and that i think your happy with policy on Pension increases and HB, as you dont want any form of rent control, which is the only way to curb rents in the short to medium term, that just leaves DLA, good luck with that.
The private sector supplies the vast majority of our essentials - food, water, clothing, etc. Defence and police are examples where the state does need to deal with things. Others are OK with state and private provision - education, health etc. But there is no point making the state larger than it needs to be."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
mmmm pretty sure the utilities mentioned were gifted the land and infrastructure to start up with, even with new telcos, BT is forced to give them exchange space and access to infrastructure.
and in almost all situations from elderly and disable care, rubbish collection to pensions etc the state is the backer of last resort and of course there has been scandals aplenty with all of these too.
Private care companies are there, rightly, to make a big profit, they do this by paying their staff a pitance and extreme ways of calculating pay and travel time, these staff then claim tax credits, so who is subsidising who?
or they can cut corners on care, which they also been known to do or both!
i ll give the clothing example though.0
