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Please note that I'm not arguing against the police being able to kill in such circumstances as we have seen in Paris. If that happened in London, I would fully support the police blowing the f**kers' heads off their shoulders. I was just trying to say that I think Corbyn has expressed himself badly (as he did with the Jihadi John comments) and should spend more time thinking about how his words might be perceived before opening his mouth.0
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Please note that I'm not arguing against the police being able to kill in such circumstances as we have seen in Paris. If that happened in London, I would fully support the police blowing the f**kers' heads off their shoulders. I was just trying to say that I think Corbyn has expressed himself badly (as he did with the Jihadi John comments) and should spend more time thinking about how his words might be perceived before opening his mouth.
I didn't think for one minute that you would not support a police operation to prevent atrocities.
But Corbyn has been a MP for 32 years and is the leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. He was perfectly clear in what he said. If he wasn't, he is clearly not up to the job that has been thrust upon him.0 -
I think he has been misunderstood on these two occasions, and he's probably got about a year to improve his communication skills.0
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Corbyn gets better and better doesn't he with his idealistic view of the world. Not happy with 'Shoot to KIll'?
(I know it's an unsatisfactory phrase)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/16/corbyn-against-shoot-to-kill-uk-paris-attacks-labourOver and above ARVs most forces have firearms officers with enhanced skills. They have also received the active shooter training and can come in and support ARVs in a second wave of response.
https://www.policingtoday.co.uk/exclusive_changing_the_rules_of_engagement_31386.aspx
'Active shooter' used to be defined along the lines of someone who has access to the means (ammunition) and victims and intends to continue to kill until he exhausts either or until he commits suicide or is killed.
How would Corbyn, if God or Allah forbid, were to became PM, expect the security services to do in such a situation?
Sounds to me that he is in favour of maintaining the existing law, which does allow the police to according to the circumstances:[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19743825#p19743825]The same article[/url] wrote:After the issue was raised by an MP at a meeting of the parliamentary party, a Labour aide clarified that Corbyn was “committed to what the existing law is that any armed action by the police has to be proportionate to the threat”.
I don't think Corbyn's turning out to be a particularly good communicator.[/quote]
What he's guilty of is trying to get to the main issue without answering a question which would defuse the situation. He was guilty of that last night. Could, quite easily, have said that the security services should act according to the rule of law BUT that he wanted a world in which a shoot to kill policy need not exist. Naïve, but I guess most people want that. He's communicated very well on the whole. And been poorly quoted. Last night was a gaffe.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
If Corbyn hasn't worked that out in 30+ years as an MP then there's not much hope for him. I think we can say that he's not a natural leader for this country, which is kind of the point of this thread.I was just trying to say that I think Corbyn has expressed himself badly (as he did with the Jihadi John comments) and should spend more time thinking about how his words might be perceived before opening his mouth.
Although clearly I hope that they give him more that a year
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Given his track record of supporting the IRA, Hamas, Russia, Iran, etc, etc - I reckon that he is communicating exactly what he thinks, very clearly indeed.0
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So either he is a crap communicator or a terrorist/rogue state apologist. Or both. Whichever way you cut it, unfit for high office as I have said some way back on this thread.Given his track record of supporting the IRA, Hamas, Russia, Iran, etc, etc - I reckon that he is communicating exactly what he thinks, very clearly indeed.
Let's hope he doesn't get the boot too soon."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Given his track record of supporting the IRA, Hamas, Russia, Iran, etc, etc - I reckon that he is communicating exactly what he thinks, very clearly indeed.
Blair & Major have talks with IRA, leading to a decade or more of no IRA bombings and numerous lives saved.
Obama/cameron in talks with russia over syria and IS
USA at present talking to Iran
Hamas are in opposition to IS, how long before Hamas welcomed to Downing st thanking them for their support in fighting ISil ? lol!
i ve just listened to Corbyns interview, rather than reading the Mail/Sun, and he basically didnt answer Lauras question, just a generality that he isnt happy with a general shoot to kill policy (which could mean anything) & that the emphasis must be on prevention
Corbyn needs to remember he isnt some back bencher, every word he says will be scrutinised, and rightly so too.0 -
I too listened to the interview played by Jeremy Vine.
was the opening line of the interview and the context of the discussion. He still managed to say that he was not happy with police officers 'shooting to kill'If we saw the kind of horror in Paris, here...
In his world, how would he expect terrorists who were shooting people with AK47s be stopped?
To be fair, Chuka Umuna couldn't defend Corbyn's position either, when asked.0 -
I didn't say "talking to" all those people, I said "supporting", because his words, actions and associations made it clear that's what he was doing.Given his track record of supporting the IRA, Hamas, Russia, Iran, etc, etc - I reckon that he is communicating exactly what he thinks, very clearly indeed.
Blair & Major have talks with IRA, leading to a decade or more of no IRA bombings and numerous lives saved.
Obama/cameron in talks with russia over syria and IS
USA at present talking to Iran
Hamas are in opposition to IS, how long before Hamas welcomed to Downing st thanking them for their support in fighting ISil ? lol!
i ve just listened to Corbyns interview, rather than reading the Mail/Sun, and he basically didnt answer Lauras question, just a generality that he isnt happy with a general shoot to kill policy (which could mean anything) & that the emphasis must be on prevention
Corbyn needs to remember he isnt some back bencher, every word he says will be scrutinised, and rightly so too.0 -
From recollection, the question was pretty much "would you be happy with a shoot to kill policy?" Corbyn is clearly never going to be "happy" with a shhot to kill policy, so he answered the question honestly. i think he could have been a bit clearer as to whether he accepted that it might be necessary in the circumstances we are discussing though.
The Jihadi John comments are similar - of course he's going to prefer somebody being held to account for their actions and subjectto the rule of law, but an acknowledgment that perhaps on this occasion that wasn't a realistic prospect would have helped.0 -
Judging from comments from inside Labour this Syrian bombing vote might spell the end for Corbyn already.
Senior MPs heckled him furiously in an internal meeting on his entire policy and bemoaned (a little unfairly IMO) that Corbyn can only see Middle East actions as a response to Western (though any grasp of history would explain why this is probably correct) and there was open disagreement with Corbyn and agreement with Cameron from Labour MPs in parliament today.
Corbyn was a serial rebel with only his conscious to answer to, so many Labour MPs (especially fmr ministers) see no reason to obey the whip.
Blood is running high on this one so the stakes have gone up.0 -
Judging from comments from inside Labour this Syrian bombing vote might spell the end for Corbyn already.
Senior MPs heckled him furiously in an internal meeting on his entire policy and bemoaned (a little unfairly IMO) that Corbyn can only see Middle East actions as a response to Western (though any grasp of history would explain why this is probably correct) and there was open disagreement with Corbyn and agreement with Cameron from Labour MPs in parliament today.
Corbyn was a serial rebel with only his conscious to answer to, so many Labour MPs (especially fmr ministers) see no reason to obey the whip.
Blood is running high on this one so the stakes have gone up.
I doubt it. Labour has never ousted a leader, they wait for them to resign.
I saw an article and may have even posted somewhere where there is doubt as to how a challenge is mounted. A challenger must get the support of 20% MPs currently 46. There is then doubt as to whether the incumbent automatically goes on the ballot or whether he has to secure the support of 15% MPs first. Corbyn could conceivably automatically qualify to be put on the ballot and win again.0 -
So either he is a crap communicator or a terrorist/rogue state apologist. Or both.Given his track record of supporting the IRA, Hamas, Russia, Iran, etc, etc - I reckon that he is communicating exactly what he thinks, very clearly indeed.
You've excluded the possibility that he hasn't got the world divided into "good" and "evil" camps and believes that political and diplomatic solutions can be reached with all but the most extreme cases, and that punishing entire countries for their leadership allows the leaders to portray internal dissidents as traitors working for the enemy.0 -
Red Ken appointed to chair the shadow defence review?
You couldn't make it up, as they say.
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I think most of us know it is not always as black and white as that.
So either he is a crap communicator or a terrorist/rogue state apologist. Or both.Given his track record of supporting the IRA, Hamas, Russia, Iran, etc, etc - I reckon that he is communicating exactly what he thinks, very clearly indeed.
You've excluded the possibility that he hasn't got the world divided into "good" and "evil" camps and believes that political and diplomatic solutions can be reached with all but the most extreme cases, and that punishing entire countries for their leadership allows the leaders to portray internal dissidents as traitors working for the enemy.
However to take one case above Corbyn clearly supports the IRA (and has done for a long time): an organisation that has murdered large numbers of UK citizens in an attempt to achieve its aims. How is that compatible with his position as the leader of the opposition and a potential (if very unlikely) leader of this country?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
BrilliantRed Ken appointed to chair the shadow defence review?
You couldn't make it up, as they say. Defence will be a shadow if that lot ever get in. Unless using harsh language against terrorists is considered effective. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Daily Politics today was a belter. Labour in open revolt.
Must have been lefties up and down the country squirming with embarrassment.0 -
BrilliantRed Ken appointed to chair the shadow defence review?
You couldn't make it up, as they say. Defence will be a shadow if that lot ever get in. Unless using harsh language against terrorists is considered effective.
Presumably his experience as mayor of London during 7/7 is considered valuable...?
Would make sense. Got more intimately involved in it than most.0 -
I'm not sure I've ever heard Ken using harsh language against terrorists
BrilliantRed Ken appointed to chair the shadow defence review?
You couldn't make it up, as they say. Defence will be a shadow if that lot ever get in. Unless using harsh language against terrorists is considered effective.0 -
BrilliantRed Ken appointed to chair the shadow defence review?
You couldn't make it up, as they say. Defence will be a shadow if that lot ever get in. Unless using harsh language against terrorists is considered effective.
Presumably his experience as mayor of London during 7/7 is considered valuable...?
Would make sense. Got more intimately involved in it than most.
Some Labour MPs may say that but ... er ... No they don't.0 -
... he seems more keen to use harsh language against "colleagues" who are brave enough to have admitted to mental health issues. Very classy.0
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I'm not sure I've ever heard Ken using harsh language against terrorists
BrilliantRed Ken appointed to chair the shadow defence review?
You couldn't make it up, as they say. Defence will be a shadow if that lot ever get in. Unless using harsh language against terrorists is considered effective.
Ah come on. Appreciate you're good at being flippant but come on.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ken-livingstones-speech-77-bombings-from-singapore-speak-to-those-come-to-london-10370832.html0 -
What's new?Must have been lefties up and down the country squirming with embarrassment."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
i m sorry but another tory smokescreen to hide the fact that they are power and its they who are cutting our capabilities.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/14/met-police-chief-cuts-safety-public
the use of "shroud waving" (by tory minsters) was a most unfortunate phrase0 -
I agree Mamba, I would love to see more police officers. What you and I would disagree on is where the money should come from. I think we have probably discussed that to death.
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I agree Mamba, I would love to see more police officers. What you and I would disagree on is where the money should come from. I think we have probably discussed that to death.
You seem a sensible chap, so how you cannot see that i am right and YOU are wrong is beyond me 0 -
I agree Mamba, I would love to see more police officers. What you and I would disagree on is where the money should come from. I think we have probably discussed that to death.
i agree, how you cannot see that i am right and YOU are wrong is beyond me
just pls stop all this lefty bashing that the country is under dire threat if Labour get even a sniff of power, the reality is its the Tories that are guilty.
Sorry. I will try. I can't promise anything as I have been told before that sometimes I just state the obvious. 0 -
Good article here on Corbyn's latest debacle:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12000240/Jeremy-Corbyns-idiocy-on-terrorism-is-ripping-Labour-apart-but-hes-not-going-anywhere.html
Love the phrase 'apologist fury-chimps' "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ken's excuse for being a knut seems to be his background, growing up in South London.The veteran Labour politician initially refused to retract his comments, accusing Jones of “wimping around”, telling him to “get over it” and blaming his own south London background for the fact he is rude back when someone is rude to him
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/18/ken-livingstone-backtracks-on-apology-over-psychiatric-help-remarks
So all you on here from sarf of the river are a bunch of knuts. 0
