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Shot in the arm for Corbyn. Miliband says he's fit to be PM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4621377.ece.
Like Cheryl Cole saying you can sing.0 -
Watch that 15 point tory lead get bigger after such a ringing endorsement from a natural born winnerShot in the arm for Corbyn. Miliband says he's fit to be PM
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4621377.ece.
Like Cheryl Cole saying you can sing.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There are private and public forms of pensions and housing. Not sure what DLA is - do you mean disability allowance? If so, many people care privately for the disabled and within families. None of those are state monopolies and I cant see why they should be.
And there are things that do not need to be provided collectively but are. As it is, the majority ofmour needs are provided by the private sector. In fact there are not many things that absolutely have to be provided by the state.
There is such a thing as society but it doesn't have to be so bloody expensive. And you seem to be confusing society with the state.
Like what? all the major ones are very very expensive. expecting volunteers to run, say a libary justs leads to a post code lottery of these types of services, leafy boroughs still get them, inner cities lose them.
Given by far and away the most expensive DWP outlay are Pensions, Housing benefit and DLA and that i think your happy with policy on Pension increases and HB, as you dont want any form of rent control, which is the only way to curb rents in the short to medium term, that just leaves DLA, good luck with that.
The private sector supplies the vast majority of our essentials - food, water, clothing, etc. Defence and police are examples where the state does need to deal with things. Others are OK with state and private provision - education, health etc. But there is no point making the state larger than it needs to be.
Because the private sector do a great job of utilities and public transport...
Take the energy industry for example, now the consumer gets a choice of energy companies, who all get to spend tons on marketing to try and draw customers in, and then have a large (potentially confusing) array of pricing plans. Companies who then have to generate profit for their shareholders...(or in the case of EdF, the French taxpayer)
Then there's the whole "other peoples money" criticism that's constantly levelled at the public sector. As if somehow when a company gets private shareholders, it magically becomes a model of efficiency. Well, guess what, I've seen plenty of PLCs where there's tremendous wastage. I've also seen public sector workers (doctors and nurses) who work extremely hard for what is comparatively little money...You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Of course the transport and energy industries were a model of efficiency when they were state owned :roll: Not sure if you are old enough to remember power cuts in the 1970's when our power industry was nationalised.Because the private sector do a great job of utilities and public transport...
Take the energy industry for example, now the consumer gets a choice of energy companies, who all get to spend tons on marketing to try and draw customers in, and then have a large (potentially confusing) array of pricing plans. Companies who then have to generate profit for their shareholders...(or in the case of EdF, the French taxpayer)
Then there's the whole "other peoples money" criticism that's constantly levelled at the public sector. As if somehow when a company gets private shareholders, it magically becomes a model of efficiency. Well, guess what, I've seen plenty of PLCs where there's tremendous wastage. I've also seen public sector workers (doctors and nurses) who work extremely hard for what is comparatively little money...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1525089/Decade-that-dimmed-the-strike-hit-Seventies.html
Marvellous eh.
And here's a few facts about railways, in particular fares and fare increases on the last page:
http://www.stagecoach.com/~/media/Files/S/Stagecoach-Group/Attachments/pdf/rail-industry-faqs.pdf
As for the other people's money point - it is other people's money - ours. At least when we are buying from the private sector we usually have a choice of whether to spend, where to buy from and how much to pay. Not really the case in the public sector where the government takes a lump of cash from us and then decides how to spend it."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
StageCoach? sure to have an biased view.
the point is steve, Private can be good when as you say you ve a choice as, where and if, you want to spend, with heating, water there is no choice, like it or lump it.
But as i said, how come the private sector dont stick by their industries? banking, pensions, health care they all rely on the public purse for last resort, despite taking huge profits for themselves when times are good.
Sometimes the pendulum swings to far, as you say things werent all rosy in the past but sometimes things go to far the other way.0 -
There are very few markets where you have no choice. Water is the only major one I can think of off the top of my head. Heating? You do have a choice.StageCoach? sure to have an biased view.
the point is steve, Private can be good when as you say you ve a choice as, where and if, you want to spend, with heating, water there is no choice, like it or lump it.
But as i said, how come the private sector dont stick by their industries? banking, pensions, health care they all rely on the public purse for last resort, despite taking huge profits for themselves when times are good.
Sometimes the pendulum swings to far, as you say things werent all rosy in the past but sometimes things go to far the other way.
And the one key thing missing from many areas where the state provides services - competition. Vital to drive important things such as good customer service, efficiency, innovation etc.
As for the public being the last resort, disagree. Brown took action on the banks because the panic that Northern Rock caused coukd have caused a very damaging domino effect. That was a one off unilateral action by the goverment (and credit to Brown for taking decisive action on that one). In nearly any normal business situation it is the shareholders who are the last resort. As they should be."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There are very few markets where you have no choice. Water is the only major one I can think of off the top of my head. Heating? You do have a choice.StageCoach? sure to have an biased view.
the point is steve, Private can be good when as you say you ve a choice as, where and if, you want to spend, with heating, water there is no choice, like it or lump it.
But as i said, how come the private sector dont stick by their industries? banking, pensions, health care they all rely on the public purse for last resort, despite taking huge profits for themselves when times are good.
Sometimes the pendulum swings to far, as you say things werent all rosy in the past but sometimes things go to far the other way.
And the one key thing missing from many areas where the state provides services - competition. Vital to drive important things such as good customer service, efficiency, innovation etc.
As for the public being the last resort, disagree. Brown took action on the banks because the panic that Northern Rock caused coukd have caused a very damaging domino effect. That was a one off unilateral action by the goverment (and credit to Brown for taking decisive action on that one). In nearly any normal business situation it is the shareholders who are the last resort. As they should be.
in the vast majority of cases, you ve a choice of billing, rather than supply and as the tarrifs are so compliated and prices go in unison, i m not sure competition has worked so well there, however smaller companies are entering the market, so maybe things will improve?
But regarding the state being the last resort (in so called essential services) i stand by that, if an old peoples care home or hospice goes belly up. the state will step in, same with banks - my savings up to 75% and as i under stand it? my pension is gauranteed 100% once i start drawing it and 85% before hand - shared between state and private isnt it, its the same with privatised rubbish collections, when they fail, the council is legally bound to collect the bins
If your non essential op goes wrong in the Nuffield, you ll be rushed to a NHS hospital, at no charge, how come?
i also dont see private schools full of kids with disabilities or special needs, the state picks up that bill.
No sane gov would risk a run on the banks so Brown had no choice, look what happened when Lehmans was allowed to go bust, some would say triggering the whole banking collapse.
As i said, private can be good, just needs to be in the right areas when it comes to services we rely on.0 -
I could say the same about publicAs i said, private can be good, just needs to be in the right areas when it comes to services we rely on.
But in the end a mixture is needed, what we are arguing about obviously is what mix.
Think of those private provisions of services that have the state as a backstop another way - the people paying for and using these services are taking a burden off the state but still paying towards the public provision of services. That has to be a good thing IMO.
On an anecdotal point about energy companies, I've been signed up to one of the small ones (Ovo) for a over 2 years now and they really are pretty good, not just on price. I even get 3% interest on my overpayments which is way better then the bank Worth a look if you are hacked off with the big boys. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ok, waving Mao's Red book at the dispatch box really is batsh1t crazy...
At first glance, an amazing budget, Ossie is going miss every single one of his targets and one way or another is throwing money at problems like there is no tomo.... i think the thread should be "join the conservatives etc etc
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good news on the Police though, shows they ve been listening, but of course they really had no choice, get it wrong and they d be crucified.
though where labour go from here i dont know.0 -
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The only explanation I can think of is that the Corbyns and McDonnells of this world do not actually want to change the world or get into power: they just want to remain perpetually angry with and superior to the baddies.Seriously, who signed off quoting Mao?
Essentially it's just student politics posturing.0 -
It is bizarre.
Pains me so much voters punished the lib dems so hard.
Electorate killed off the viable alternative to self loathing post-socialists (now reverted back to self loathing socialists) and small state right wingers (with a penchant for limiting liberties)0 -
I just watched the video feed of that exchange. Labour really are a total mess at the moment.0
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Osbourne shoots another few Labour foxesOk, waving Mao's Red book at the dispatch box really is batsh1t crazy...
At first glance, an amazing budget, Ossie is going miss every single one of his targets and one way or another is throwing money at problems like there is no tomo.... i think the thread should be "join the conservatives etc etc "
good news on the Police though, shows they ve been listening, but of course they really had no choice, get it wrong and they d be crucified.
though where labour go from here i dont know. Unfortunately for you there is only one way it can go for New Old Labour with Corbyns lot running the show - down. Tories are 15 points ahead of Labour less than 3 months since Corbyn took over. He's not exactly winning over the electorate... "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
It's not that bizarre. Sorry but the Lib Dems have never been a political force capable of governing in their own right - their only shot at power was sharing as they did in the last parliament.It is bizarre.
Pains me so much voters punished the lib dems so hard.
Electorate killed off the viable alternative to self loathing post-socialists (now reverted back to self loathing socialists) and small state right wingers (with a penchant for limiting liberties)
Why do you think they were punished? Here's what I think:
- Leftie liberals hated them for 'selling out' and going into the coalition
- Not enough differentiation between them and pre Corbyn Labour
- Unquestioning Europhilia in a fairly Eurosceptic country
The second reason above holds out some hope for your lot now that Labour have given up any pretence of being in the middle ground."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No need to apologise.
Appreciate it's tough when your man introduces a (small) fiscal stimulus on a more tax & spend basis this time around.0 -
2 you haven't lost your famous sense of humourNo need to apologise.
Appreciate it's tough when your man introduces a (small) fiscal stimulus on a more tax & spend basis this time around.
So why do you think the Lib Dems were wiped out at the polls?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Just seen it myself. McDonnell shows his true colours and New Old Labour have officially lost the plot live on TV. The only other rational explanation is that he's bet the farm on Labour losing the next election and is now trying to make enough to retire on?I just watched the video feed of that exchange. Labour really are a total mess at the moment."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
28bn of tax increases, extra council tax, business taxes and buy to let taxes - u turn on tax credits and police cuts - i happen to agree with some these but really, had he won in the lords, he d have introduced Credit tax cuts, with out Paris, he d have cut police numbers, he is reacting on the hoof and more worryingly basing tax and spend plans on a 5 year forecast, that even the OBR say is 50/50 at best, is hardly prudent.
Wasnt it you who blasted me of wanting to throw money at problems and increase taxes, but Osbourne has now done exactly that but thats alright now! 0 -
And still failing to hit his own targets.28bn of tax increases, extra council tax, business taxes and buy to let taxes - u turn on tax credits and police cuts - i happen to agree with some these but really, had he won in the lords, he d have introduced Credit tax cuts, with out Paris, he d have cut police numbers, he is reacting on the hoof and more worryingly basing tax and spend plans on a 5 year forecast, that even the OBR say is 50/50 at best, is hardly prudent.
Wasnt it you who blasted me of wanting to throw money at problems and increase taxes, but Osbourne has now done exactly that but thats alright now!
Really, all Labour have to do is keep their heads below the parapets.
But that appears to be too simple.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
And still failing to hit his own targets.28bn of tax increases, extra council tax, business taxes and buy to let taxes - u turn on tax credits and police cuts - i happen to agree with some these but really, had he won in the lords, he d have introduced Credit tax cuts, with out Paris, he d have cut police numbers, he is reacting on the hoof and more worryingly basing tax and spend plans on a 5 year forecast, that even the OBR say is 50/50 at best, is hardly prudent.
Wasnt it you who blasted me of wanting to throw money at problems and increase taxes, but Osbourne has now done exactly that but thats alright now!
Really, all Labour have to do is keep their heads below the parapets.
But that appears to be too simple.
Wasn't that Miliband's "strategy"? Might actually work with someone slick at the helm, but Labour seem to scare off anybody like that (D Miliband, Chuka).
Can't see the Tories possibly failing to hold on to power for at least this and the next parliament. Osborne's effort to take the middle ground is some small crumb of comfort.
I am kind of with Rick re the Lib Dems annihalation - I could see why their left leaning voters might have deserted them, but why move from Lib Dem to Tory? That is what really didn'ty make sense at the last election. Part of me thinks we might see New Labour and centre-left Lib Dems consolidate, but haven't we been there before with the SDP? Its all a bit like stepping back in time 30 years, except the existing Conservative party is perhaps not quite as vile as it was under Thatcher.0 -
Just seen it myself. McDonnell shows his true colours and New Old Labour have officially lost the plot live on TV. The only other rational explanation is that he's bet the farm on Labour losing the next election and is now trying to make enough to retire on?I just watched the video feed of that exchange. Labour really are a total mess at the moment.
Saw it for the first time on Sky News this morning prior to the great man being interviewed.
He looked a c0ck before the interview and looked a bigger one afterwards. Get him on the telly more often. 0 -
2 you haven't lost your famous sense of humourNo need to apologise.
Appreciate it's tough when your man introduces a (small) fiscal stimulus on a more tax & spend basis this time around.
So why do you think the Lib Dems were wiped out at the polls?
3 things.
1) classic coalition performance: almost every smaller coalition party does worse than the bigger party in the following election. Happens all across Europe. I see it happen a lot in Ned
2) this combined with an apparently tight race with the genuine fear of SNP interference meant going all out for either of the 2 big parties was "safer" and the least bad option. Tories typically have swing seats in lib dem seats so that only goes one way.
3) punishment for the tuition fees blunder which the campaign did nothing to rectify. Lib dems generally lack articulation for what value they added to which policies and why they compromised.
Hindsight will be kinder on the Lib Dem's performance in coalition as governors than the electorate were.0 -
He is a weapons grade bellend and that Mao quote book stunt yesterday was just stunningly stupid. Osbourne's retort about it being his personal copy made me laugh
Just seen it myself. McDonnell shows his true colours and New Old Labour have officially lost the plot live on TV. The only other rational explanation is that he's bet the farm on Labour losing the next election and is now trying to make enough to retire on?I just watched the video feed of that exchange. Labour really are a total mess at the moment.
Saw it for the first time on Sky News this morning prior to the great man being interviewed.
He looked a c0ck before the interview and looked a bigger one afterwards. Get him on the telly more often.
Actually my worry is that New Old Labour are imploding a bit too quickly, we need this to drag on for another few years - both for electoral and sheer entertainment purposes "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
The only problem is that hindsight doesn't have a vote.Hindsight will be kinder on the Lib Dem's performance in coalition as governors than the electorate were."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Given what you said there, can you stop moaning now?28bn of tax increases, extra council tax, business taxes and buy to let taxes - u turn on tax credits and police cuts - i happen to agree with some these but really, had he won in the lords, he d have introduced Credit tax cuts, with out Paris, he d have cut police numbers, he is reacting on the hoof and more worryingly basing tax and spend plans on a 5 year forecast, that even the OBR say is 50/50 at best, is hardly prudent.
Wasnt it you who blasted me of wanting to throw money at problems and increase taxes, but Osbourne has now done exactly that but thats alright now! "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Definitely a cunning stunt.He is a weapons grade bellend and that Mao quote book stunt yesterday was just stunningly stupid.0 -
Given what you said there, can you stop moaning now?28bn of tax increases, extra council tax, business taxes and buy to let taxes - u turn on tax credits and police cuts - i happen to agree with some these but really, had he won in the lords, he d have introduced Credit tax cuts, with out Paris, he d have cut police numbers, he is reacting on the hoof and more worryingly basing tax and spend plans on a 5 year forecast, that even the OBR say is 50/50 at best, is hardly prudent.
Wasnt it you who blasted me of wanting to throw money at problems and increase taxes, but Osbourne has now done exactly that but thats alright now!
You r just a secret Socialist really
but yes Mcdonnel is clearly an idiot, he had an open goal but turned it around to hoof the ball into his own net0 -
And still failing to hit his own targets.28bn of tax increases, extra council tax, business taxes and buy to let taxes - u turn on tax credits and police cuts - i happen to agree with some these but really, had he won in the lords, he d have introduced Credit tax cuts, with out Paris, he d have cut police numbers, he is reacting on the hoof and more worryingly basing tax and spend plans on a 5 year forecast, that even the OBR say is 50/50 at best, is hardly prudent.
Wasnt it you who blasted me of wanting to throw money at problems and increase taxes, but Osbourne has now done exactly that but thats alright now!
Really, all Labour have to do is keep their heads below the parapets.
But that appears to be too simple.
Or Labour could come up with a coherent strategy that would outline how they plan to deal with spending, the budget deficit and growth. Without resorting to the pointless 'raise taxes on the rich' argument which anyone with any intelligence can see right through.
But that appears to be too hard. (Chuka wrote a good piece before pulling out).
Instead what we will get is an opposition who opposes. Just opposes. But offers nothing of any substance. Maybe they are victims of their own electorate in all they want to do is complain about zero hour contracts, big business not paying taxes, slave labour, cuts but still happy to shop at Amazon, Starbucks et al.
(I know they are working on a plan, but really, it has been quite a while since Jezza got in).0
