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Thanks Bompington, saved me digging out some facts and forecasts to counter the anecdotal gloom...me and everyone i know, many of whom work in contruction, they dont see it, more a case of bouncing along the bottom, though i do hope your optimism is well placed.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Well of course, but does that mean that there's a recession on if one person loses their job?No good saying to an ex steel worker "unemployment fell last month mate"0 -
I thought I would have a look at the construction employment figures.
They stopped collating them in 2012.
Funny that.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
...me and everyone i know, many of whom work in contruction, they dont see it, more a case of bouncing along the bottom, though i do hope your optimism is well placed.
as that shows the construction output at the end of 2015 is no better than 2011, there isn't going to be much of a feelgood factor in construction is there. Not surprising given the spending cut backs in the public sector. Add in the "localisation" decision to allow all and any development to be blocked by locals and the private sector cannot do anything to help either.0 -
More smoke...Momentum is gaining, well momentum. Labour moderates watch out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11981745/The-Corbyn-hardcore-plotting-to-deselect-Labour-moderates.html"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
More smoke...Momentum is gaining, well momentum. Labour moderates watch out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11981745/The-Corbyn-hardcore-plotting-to-deselect-Labour-moderates.html
Please Please LOCK THIS THREAD......... icant take anymore :shock:0 -
PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD - ON THE GROUNDS OF IT BEING SERIOUSLY TEDIOUS.
__________________________________________________________________________0 -
I find this thread quite entertaining, so I would vote to keep it going.
I'm sure that some people would like this forum to be a "safe space" where they shouldn't be exposed to "micro-aggressions" from "privileged" individuals which might "trigger" unpleasant reactions. However, they would be a bunch of wusses, and I'm sure the rest of us would prefer robust debate, even if it is childish and tedious.
I am a little bit confused, mind you: because the Tory scum seem to be heavily outnumbered here, and everyone knows that they're a bit dim and have no valid arguments, so how come we haven't been argued off the park yet? :twisted: :twisted:0 -
Who are you calling privileged? I take offence at that and want the thread lockingI find this thread quite entertaining, so I would vote to keep it going.
I'm sure that some people would like this forum to be a "safe space" where they shouldn't be exposed to "micro-aggressions" from "privileged" individuals which might "trigger" unpleasant reactions. However, they would be a bunch of wusses, and I'm sure the rest of us would prefer robust debate, even if it is childish and tedious.
I am a little bit confused, mind you: because the Tory scum seem to be heavily outnumbered here, and everyone knows that they're a bit dim and have no valid arguments, so how come we haven't been argued off the park yet? :twisted: :twisted:
Although clearly the option of 'not replying' is available to all.
However if mamba wants to concede defeat on behalf of the lefties.... "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Who are you calling privileged? I take offence at that and want the thread lockingI find this thread quite entertaining, so I would vote to keep it going.
I'm sure that some people would like this forum to be a "safe space" where they shouldn't be exposed to "micro-aggressions" from "privileged" individuals which might "trigger" unpleasant reactions. However, they would be a bunch of wusses, and I'm sure the rest of us would prefer robust debate, even if it is childish and tedious.
I am a little bit confused, mind you: because the Tory scum seem to be heavily outnumbered here, and everyone knows that they're a bit dim and have no valid arguments, so how come we haven't been argued off the park yet? :twisted: :twisted: Although clearly the option of 'not replying' is available to all.
However if mamba wants to concede defeat on behalf of the lefties....
Your right, IF after 48 pages of coherent, logical and reasoned argument, you guys still cannot be convinced, you never will, you are all too dim 0 -
Perhaps you're right. Why don't you try it some time?IF after 48 pages of coherent, logical and reasoned argument, you guys still cannot be convinced, you never will, you are all too dim0 -
I am a little bit confused, mind you: because the Tory scum seem to be heavily outnumbered here, and everyone knows that they're a bit dim and have no valid arguments, so how come we haven't been argued off the park yet? :twisted: :twisted:
We're all overwhelmed by your brilliant grasp of statistics.0 -
This thread is a bit like the last General Election thenI am a little bit confused, mind you: because the Tory scum seem to be heavily outnumbered here, and everyone knows that they're a bit dim and have no valid arguments, so how come we haven't been argued off the park yet? :twisted: :twisted: "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Interesting that some of politicians whose policies helped injur some of these veterans, couldnt wait for their VIP lunch, as they say about actions....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/remembrance-sunday-jeremy-corbyn-skipped-vip-lunch-to-stay-behind-after-ceremony-and-applaud-wwii-a6726591.html
i know who i think this country needs saving from and it aint Corbyn....now please lock the xxxxxxxx thread 0 -
Nope, sorry. I'll take that as a capitulation thoughInteresting that some of politicians whose policies helped injur some of these veterans, couldnt wait for their VIP lunch, as they say about actions....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/remembrance-sunday-jeremy-corbyn-skipped-vip-lunch-to-stay-behind-after-ceremony-and-applaud-wwii-a6726591.html
i know who i think this country needs saving from and it aint Corbyn....now please lock the xxxxxxxx thread "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Unlike Stevo, I do worry about Corbyn. Not because I believe his ideas have merit nor a throwback to a failed dogma. Even his Parliamentary colleagues think he's barking. But looking around Europe, Portugal being the latest example, people seem intent on spending money they haven't got.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3312773/Concerns-Eurozone-Portuguese-government-ousted-Left-wing-alliance-promising-spending-spree-tax-cuts-despite-78billion-bailout-Europe.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/10/portuguese-mps-force-minority-government-to-quit-over-austerity
People can be seduced by the thought of spending other people's money. Brits are no exception.0 -
Funny you quote the daily mail.
Fairly sure they register themselves in Bermuda to lower their tax bill.0 -
Unlike Stevo, I do worry about Corbyn. Not because I believe his ideas have merit nor a throwback to a failed dogma. Even his Parliamentary colleagues think he's barking. But looking around Europe, Portugal being the latest example, people seem intent on spending money they haven't got.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3312773/Concerns-Eurozone-Portuguese-government-ousted-Left-wing-alliance-promising-spending-spree-tax-cuts-despite-78billion-bailout-Europe.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/10/portuguese-mps-force-minority-government-to-quit-over-austerity
People can be seduced by the thought of spending other people's money. Brits are no exception.
ok
We are the 5th richest country on earth, yet we ve a crumbling education system, a bankrupt nhs... so where is all this money? who has it? and why isnt it just slightly better distributed? not by a huge degree but just enough so we dont have some of the poorest exam rates in the western world and that we can afford cancer drugs that are common throughout europe.
or is it just a case of the richer getting richer and xxxx the rest of us.0 -
Daily mail is owned by DMGT which is headquartered in London. Not sure what that has to do with Ballys point though, even if it was correct.Funny you quote the daily mail.
Fairly sure they register themselves in Bermuda to lower their tax bill."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Apart from the statement the we are the 5th wealthiest, the rest of that is just your opinion, but you are stating it as if it fact. Try supporting your claims?Unlike Stevo, I do worry about Corbyn. Not because I believe his ideas have merit nor a throwback to a failed dogma. Even his Parliamentary colleagues think he's barking. But looking around Europe, Portugal being the latest example, people seem intent on spending money they haven't got.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3312773/Concerns-Eurozone-Portuguese-government-ousted-Left-wing-alliance-promising-spending-spree-tax-cuts-despite-78billion-bailout-Europe.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/10/portuguese-mps-force-minority-government-to-quit-over-austerity
People can be seduced by the thought of spending other people's money. Brits are no exception.
ok
We are the 5th richest country on earth, yet we ve a crumbling education system, a bankrupt nhs... so where is all this money? who has it? and why isnt it just slightly better distributed? not by a huge degree but just enough so we dont have some of the poorest exam rates in the western world and that we can afford cancer drugs that are common throughout europe.
or is it just a case of the richer getting richer and xxxx the rest of us."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Apart from the statement the we are the 5th wealthiest, the rest of that is just your opinion, but you are stating it as if it fact. Try supporting your claims?We are the 5th richest country on earth, yet we ve a crumbling education system, a bankrupt nhs... so where is all this money? who has it? and why isnt it just slightly better distributed? not by a huge degree but just enough so we dont have some of the poorest exam rates in the western world and that we can afford cancer drugs that are common throughout europe.
or is it just a case of the richer getting richer and xxxx the rest of us.
England is ranked 26th in global tests for 15yo's in maths and fails to make top 20 in science and english, this is what MGove had to say....
"England's Education Secretary Michael Gove said since the 1990s, test performances had been "at best stagnant, at worst declining".
i do believe the cancer drug fund which was set up to provide cutting edge drugs to cancer suffers is being cut, to " mirror that of NICE guidelines" in other words it will cease to exist, the UK for some reason also seems to pay more for medcines too.
To me Stev0, this isnt about right or left, its about making a better society, we all ultimately benefit from a better educated workforce, better eating habits, less obesity, more skilled work force, higher productivity.
Of course i dont blame the tories for all this, they just continued, at a faster rate, what blair and brown have also done.0 -
Not sure where you get your stats from but I suspect they are best selective. The BBC has reported a very different picture here for starters on education.
Apart from the statement the we are the 5th wealthiest, the rest of that is just your opinion, but you are stating it as if it fact. Try supporting your claims?We are the 5th richest country on earth, yet we ve a crumbling education system, a bankrupt nhs... so where is all this money? who has it? and why isnt it just slightly better distributed? not by a huge degree but just enough so we dont have some of the poorest exam rates in the western world and that we can afford cancer drugs that are common throughout europe.
or is it just a case of the richer getting richer and xxxx the rest of us.
England is ranked 26th in global tests for 15yo's in maths and fails to make top 20 in science and english, this is what MGove had to say....
"England's Education Secretary Michael Gove said since the 1990s, test performances had been "at best stagnant, at worst declining".
i do believe the cancer drug fund which was set up to provide cutting edge drugs to cancer suffers is being cut, to " mirror that of NICE guidelines" in other words it will cease to exist, the UK for some reason also seems to pay more for medcines too.
To me Stev0, this isnt about right or left, its about making a better society, we all ultimately benefit from a better educated workforce, better eating habits, less obesity, more skilled work force, higher productivity.
Of course i dont blame the tories for all this, they just continued, at a faster rate, what blair and brown have also done.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27314075
If we are 'crumbling' the the rest of Europe is completely screwed. Maybe they are wasting their taxpayers money
But of course Corbyn can solve all of these perceived problems by chuckimg loads of our hard earned at them, cant he?
Stop doing the country down."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not sure where you get your stats from but I suspect they are best selective. The BBC has reported a very different picture here for starters on education.
Apart from the statement the we are the 5th wealthiest, the rest of that is just your opinion, but you are stating it as if it fact. Try supporting your claims?We are the 5th richest country on earth, yet we ve a crumbling education system, a bankrupt nhs... so where is all this money? who has it? and why isnt it just slightly better distributed? not by a huge degree but just enough so we dont have some of the poorest exam rates in the western world and that we can afford cancer drugs that are common throughout europe.
or is it just a case of the richer getting richer and xxxx the rest of us.
England is ranked 26th in global tests for 15yo's in maths and fails to make top 20 in science and english, this is what MGove had to say....
"England's Education Secretary Michael Gove said since the 1990s, test performances had been "at best stagnant, at worst declining".
i do believe the cancer drug fund which was set up to provide cutting edge drugs to cancer suffers is being cut, to " mirror that of NICE guidelines" in other words it will cease to exist, the UK for some reason also seems to pay more for medcines too.
To me Stev0, this isnt about right or left, its about making a better society, we all ultimately benefit from a better educated workforce, better eating habits, less obesity, more skilled work force, higher productivity.
Of course i dont blame the tories for all this, they just continued, at a faster rate, what blair and brown have also done.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27314075
If we are 'crumbling' the the rest of Europe is completely screwed. Maybe they are wasting their taxpayers money
But of course Corbyn can solve all of these perceived problems by chuckimg loads of our hard earned at them, cant he?
Stop doing the country down.
Hmmmm the BBC metric looks a pretty crap one to me, it's combining what looks like a fairly good measure of education, which the UK doesn't score well at with a very rough one, which the UK scores better at. Add to that, the part of the education system where the UK scores poorly is the one over which the government has the most control..You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Stevo's link is about the entire education system, whereas I guess mamba was talking about schools. Britain is excellent for universities - we could stake a reasonable claim to having the best system in the world, although you should still be a bit cautious with those figures because the university rankings systems (QS, THES, etc.) depend just as much on research quality and reputation as teaching quality.
The PISA tests paint a fairly disastrous picture for the country, but I'm not sure about the value of a testing system which compares pupils by making them do a test which is essentially meaningless to the candidates. Teaching to the test is also a major problem in the Asian countries that dominate the PISA rankings and who are now looking to the West to improve their education systems and foster a bit more creativity.
Of more concern in Britain is the number of teachers who quit the profession within a few years of qualifying and the shortage of teachers in certain key subjects (in particular maths, sciences, languages).0 -
Similar concern.Stevo's link is about the entire education system, whereas I guess mamba was talking about schools. Britain is excellent for universities - we could stake a reasonable claim to having the best system in the world, although you should still be a bit cautious with those figures because the university rankings systems (QS, THES, etc.) depend just as much on research quality and reputation as teaching quality.
The PISA tests paint a fairly disastrous picture for the country, but I'm not sure about the value of a testing system which compares pupils by making them do a test which is essentially meaningless to the candidates. Teaching to the test is also a major problem in the Asian countries that dominate the PISA rankings and who are now looking to the West to improve their education systems and foster a bit more creativity.
Of more concern in Britain is the number of teachers who quit the profession within a few years of qualifying and the shortage of teachers in certain key subjects (in particular maths, sciences, languages).
Ask anyone working in the NHS about the direction it is going in.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I have. Two friends of mine are NHS consultants. Their main concerns are over the entrenched beaurocracy, wastefulness and resistance to change or attempts to increase efficiency. Fairly common issues in the public sector based on anecdotal evidence
Similar concern.Stevo's link is about the entire education system, whereas I guess mamba was talking about schools. Britain is excellent for universities - we could stake a reasonable claim to having the best system in the world, although you should still be a bit cautious with those figures because the university rankings systems (QS, THES, etc.) depend just as much on research quality and reputation as teaching quality.
The PISA tests paint a fairly disastrous picture for the country, but I'm not sure about the value of a testing system which compares pupils by making them do a test which is essentially meaningless to the candidates. Teaching to the test is also a major problem in the Asian countries that dominate the PISA rankings and who are now looking to the West to improve their education systems and foster a bit more creativity.
Of more concern in Britain is the number of teachers who quit the profession within a few years of qualifying and the shortage of teachers in certain key subjects (in particular maths, sciences, languages).
Ask anyone working in the NHS about the direction it is going in. And no surprise when it is other peoples money. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Get some better stats of your own and post them then. At least I quoted my source which is more than some. do.
Not sure where you get your stats from but I suspect they are best selective. The BBC has reported a very different picture here for starters on education.
Apart from the statement the we are the 5th wealthiest, the rest of that is just your opinion, but you are stating it as if it fact. Try supporting your claims?We are the 5th richest country on earth, yet we ve a crumbling education system, a bankrupt nhs... so where is all this money? who has it? and why isnt it just slightly better distributed? not by a huge degree but just enough so we dont have some of the poorest exam rates in the western world and that we can afford cancer drugs that are common throughout europe.
or is it just a case of the richer getting richer and xxxx the rest of us.
England is ranked 26th in global tests for 15yo's in maths and fails to make top 20 in science and english, this is what MGove had to say....
"England's Education Secretary Michael Gove said since the 1990s, test performances had been "at best stagnant, at worst declining".
i do believe the cancer drug fund which was set up to provide cutting edge drugs to cancer suffers is being cut, to " mirror that of NICE guidelines" in other words it will cease to exist, the UK for some reason also seems to pay more for medcines too.
To me Stev0, this isnt about right or left, its about making a better society, we all ultimately benefit from a better educated workforce, better eating habits, less obesity, more skilled work force, higher productivity.
Of course i dont blame the tories for all this, they just continued, at a faster rate, what blair and brown have also done.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27314075
If we are 'crumbling' the the rest of Europe is completely screwed. Maybe they are wasting their taxpayers money
But of course Corbyn can solve all of these perceived problems by chuckimg loads of our hard earned at them, cant he?
Stop doing the country down.
Hmmmm the BBC metric looks a pretty crap one to me, it's combining what looks like a fairly good measure of education, which the UK doesn't score well at with a very rough one, which the UK scores better at. Add to that, the part of the education system where the UK scores poorly is the one over which the government has the most control.."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Unlike Stevo, I do worry about Corbyn. Not because I believe his ideas have merit nor a throwback to a failed dogma. Even his Parliamentary colleagues think he's barking. But looking around Europe, Portugal being the latest example, people seem intent on spending money they haven't got.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3312773/Concerns-Eurozone-Portuguese-government-ousted-Left-wing-alliance-promising-spending-spree-tax-cuts-despite-78billion-bailout-Europe.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/10/portuguese-mps-force-minority-government-to-quit-over-austerity
People can be seduced by the thought of spending other people's money. Brits are no exception.
ok
We are the 5th richest country on earth, yet we ve a crumbling education system, a bankrupt nhs... so where is all this money? who has it? and why isnt it just slightly better distributed? not by a huge degree but just enough so we dont have some of the poorest exam rates in the western world and that we can afford cancer drugs that are common throughout europe.
or is it just a case of the richer getting richer and xxxx the rest of us.
Yes, all public services could be better. But this country's debt stands at £1.56 TRILLION and rising. The annual cost of servicing this debt is £43 Billion (8% UK tax take). How many teachers, nurses, doctors etc would £43 Bn pay for?
Some people would have us ramp up our spending even higher.
People say they worry about the future for their children, such as the cost of education and medical treatment. I too worry. I worry that we will be handing over a country that can not afford the public services that we moan about because we and our previous generations have been profligate.0 -
bally, we ve just handed £250m over to turkey, to try and halt the through flow of migrants...mmmmm i bet that is going to make a huge difference! there is plenty of money in this country, its about who has it and how it is spent.
Anecdotes eh? where would we both be without them Stev0 :?
anyway, over the last few years, i ve known 4 gp's 1 consultant, 3 teachers all move abroad, all sighting pressure of work, lack of funds unachiveable targets as reason to go, ALL of these people were professionals that we the tax payer had trained up.
My sis is quiting teaching, 54yo, for the same reasons and she loves her job but cannot do what she signed up for anymore.
Our local GP surgery is 2 doc's down... with no sign of improvement.
my daughters school friends mum, a police woman, was telling about how they ve 2 officers to cover a very large area of n cornwall, recently it took them 29mins to ans a 999 shout, a domestic, the woman was on her way to hospital by the time they arrived, oh yes she is planning on leaving too, as she no longer feels safe, due to lack of staffing, been a copper for over 20 years.
its not about "doing the country down" its about trying to improve what was once a great nation...... remember i used to vote tory, but they have lost their way to self interest and the rich, they cant even be trusted to spend what is needed on conventional defence, but i ve an ally, no less that Mr Cameron himself.....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-clashes-with-conservative-controlled-oxfordshire-council-over-cuts-to-frontline-a6729616.html0 -
Think in the longer term the lords did Osbourne a favour. People would have started to hear how much they were to lose in a few weeks - just in time for Christmas.
Now Osbourne can dillute it to make it more palatable and use the Lords as cover for the flip flop.
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Separately I thought this letter by Cameron to his own local council very revealing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-clashes-with-conservative-controlled-oxfordshire-council-over-cuts-to-frontline-a6729616.html0
