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bally, we ve just handed £250m over to turkey, to try and halt the through flow of migrants...mmmmm i bet that is going to make a huge difference! there is plenty of money in this country, its about who has it and how it is spent.
This is going even further off topic but...
Agree that it is £250 million down the drain.
Accept that Schengen is dead and use the money to police our own borders. That is what member states should have been doing.
What the EU is doing with Turkey is akin to what the Romans did. They bought off people from outside their empire to protect their border.
Turkey has apparently been promised free travel for its citizens within Schengen as has Kosovo. Kosovo!! FFS!!
At least France and Austria have promised a referendum on admitting Turkey, so that should stall it. Unless of course they copy the Irish model and keep holding votes until they get the answer they crave.
End this madness.0 -
bally, we ve just handed £250m over to turkey, to try and halt the through flow of migrants...mmmmm i bet that is going to make a huge difference! there is plenty of money in this country, its about who has it and how it is spent.
This is going even further off topic but...
Agree that it is £250 million down the drain.
Accept that Schengen is dead and use the money to police our own borders. That is what member states should have been doing.
yes off topic but after 48 pages, why not? lol!
point is that there is money, Cameron can drag up 250m for turkey and its not a one off either, there is money going to Somalia, ethiopia, mali again as you say, will be an utter waste, evn the intended 9000 extra jobs in Ethiopia isnt going to stop the million who are leaving.
so if we are as bankrupt as Stevo says and we are paying all this interest, where does this spending money come from? and why cant it be spent on mental health, schools etc?
as for policing borders, difficult, because these people are here, they are at europes borders and its winter, what do we do? shoot them? send them back across Greece and into RIBs to Turkey? aint going to happen, not unless we use soldiers, tear gas, dogs and if necessary guns.
all we can do is send back eco refugees, but how that is done is anyones guess, i think the EU is finished as the extreme right wing are gaining control, even in liberal sweden
you and Stev0 will get what you want.0 -
Probably a bit cheaper than taking a million of them in like Germany has done. I seem to recall people saying we should do our fair share and help them. Now we are, the moaning just continues :roll:bally, we ve just handed £250m over to turkey, to try and halt the through flow of migrants...mmmmm i bet that is going to make a huge difference! there is plenty of money in this country, its about who has it and how it is spent.
Your point about there being plenty of money is still completely ignoring the £1.56 trillion of debt and associated £43bn per year interest bill. It comes from living beyond our means and that has to stop. If I am going to criticise Cameron etc for anything it is for them not doing enough to sort this out - although admittedly they were hampered by the Libdems clinging onto their one and only slice of power until 6 months ago."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
all we can do is send back eco refugees, but how that is done is anyones guess, i think the EU is finished as the extreme right wing are gaining control, even in liberal sweden
you and Stev0 will get what you want.
Is the extreme right really stronger now than it has been historically ? It's easy to look at the odd election result and see it as part of a growing trend but if we look at Europe since the war we'd see lots of instances where a supposed growth of a right wing party turned out to be a blip. I think it would take economic castrophe for the extreme right to really get a grip on power.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Probably a bit cheaper than taking a million of them in like Germany has done. I seem to recall people saying we should do our fair share and help them. Now we are, the moaning just continues :roll:bally, we ve just handed £250m over to turkey, to try and halt the through flow of migrants...mmmmm i bet that is going to make a huge difference! there is plenty of money in this country, its about who has it and how it is spent.
Your point about there being plenty of money is still completely ignoring the £1.56 trillion of debt and associated £43bn per year interest bill. It comes from living beyond our means and that has to stop. If I am going to criticise Cameron etc for anything it is for them not doing enough to sort this out - although admittedly they were hampered by the Libdems clinging onto their one and only slice of power until 6 months ago.
you are ignoring that it is a waste of money.
you cannot possibly think that money is going stop a human wave of refugees coming into europe ? even the billion euros the EU is promising (but as yet has 70million in it) will do nothing, it is tiny compared to how much the Chinese have invested into Africa.
If we hand a land border to mainland europe we also would have 10s of 1000s of refugees heading here, it isnt policy that has prevented that, as can been seen in Hungary, Croatia etc.
as for my so called opinion on the NHS..
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/may/06/system-failure-nhs-mental-health-services-pressure-ae-wards-crisis-care-concordat
there also failures in ambulance reponses, cancer treatments, patient discharge(yuk) and this in a mild autumn.
Investment and rises in tax revenues will reduce our debt, cuts in nhs and education will cost us far more in a year or two down the line.0 -
Problem is mamba, you and some others take this one dimensional view that the only way to solve problems in the public sector is to throw more money at them. Even you will realise that doesnt work - hence the concerns of my friends who work in the NHS are valid.
Just for info, hospital doctors pay is approx 1/3 higher than in France. Numbers of doctors and the NHS budget are rising. So clearly it is more than just money. Our money. Which Corbyn would gladly confiscate and shower on anything he deems worthy, while mortgaging up our childrens future. I think my kid deserves not to be left shouldering the burden of national debt of a generation that could not live within its means."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
And speaking of JC, here is his pronouncement of the well deserved vapourisation of 'Jihadi John':
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jihadi-john-dead-jeremy-corbyn-says-far-better-if-militant-had-been-in-tried-in-court-rather-than-a6733316.html
Two points:
1. How does he think we were going to slap some handcuffs on him and March him down to a local police station?
2. No way did he deserve to live at the UK taxpayers expense."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Problem is mamba, you and some others take this one dimensional view that the only way to solve problems in the public sector is to throw more money at them. Even you will realise that doesnt work - hence the concerns of my friends who work in the NHS are valid.
Just for info, hospital doctors pay is approx 1/3 higher than in France. Numbers of doctors and the NHS budget are rising. So clearly it is more than just money. Our money. Which Corbyn would gladly confiscate and shower on anything he deems worthy, while mortgaging up our childrens future. I think my kid deserves not to be left shouldering the burden of national debt of a generation that could not live within its means.
Couldn't agree more. Some people need to realise the reasons why we are in this mess.
1. Subprime
2. SubPrimeMinisterBrown0 -
And speaking of JC, here is his pronouncement of the well deserved vapourisation of 'Jihadi John':
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jihadi-john-dead-jeremy-corbyn-says-far-better-if-militant-had-been-in-tried-in-court-rather-than-a6733316.html
Two points:
1. How does he think we were going to slap some handcuffs on him and March him down to a local police station?
2. No way did he deserve to live at the UK taxpayers expense.
Tweet him and ask him. It's not mentioned. Though I'm fairly sure he knows it's very difficult. Just like the family of David Haines know that it's very difficult. But they agree. I agree as well, that it would be better. It would not be easier, clearly. But it would be better.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
From the context of his comments, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that he is arguing for more international diplomatic efforts to secure peace in Syria and Iraq, and then pursue the terrorists, rather than send the London Met into the middle of a war to arrest a terrorist in an ISIS-controlled city. It wouldn't be the first time that murderers have been brought to trial following a conflict.
“These events only underline the necessity of accelerating international efforts, under the auspices of the UN, to bring an end to the Syrian conflict as part of a comprehensive regional settlement.”0 -
He wrote this today, though I'm sure people will be only too happy to pick it to bits:
My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
Problem is mamba, you and some others take this one dimensional view that the only way to solve problems in the public sector is to throw more money at them. Even you will realise that doesnt work - hence the concerns of my friends who work in the NHS are valid.
Just for info, hospital doctors pay is approx 1/3 higher than in France. Numbers of doctors and the NHS budget are rising. So clearly it is more than just money. Our money. Which Corbyn would gladly confiscate and shower on anything he deems worthy, while mortgaging up our childrens future. I think my kid deserves not to be left shouldering the burden of national debt of a generation that could not live within its means.
You would hope that numbers of doctors and the NHS budget are growing - our population is rising and we have an ageing population as well as a bit of a baby boom at the moment. We're going to need higher health spending in the future. The question is, will this be enough?
As for hospital doctors' pay, is that hourly rates you're talking about, or salary? Without knowing this, and how many hours doctors would be expected to work in each country, it's a bit of a meaningless stat.0 -
He wrote this today, though I'm sure people will be only too happy to pick it to bits:
Look at that disgraceful, disrespectful signature! What an ISIS-supporting terrorist communist!0 -
Do you honestly think he meant all of that? :roll:He wrote this today, though I'm sure people will be only too happy to pick it to bits:
Given his known sympathies and views, Corbyn is more likely to be thinking that it is France's fault for pursuing 'imperialist aggressor' foreign policies or some other terrorist apologising leftiebollox like that. But he would never say so to the President of France after last nights events."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.
Because he is left wing, does that make him a heartless human ?!
Mrs T allowed the sinking of the Belgrano when it was outside of and moving away from the exclusion zone. Using your level of cynicism, one could argue that it was simply a vote pulling move.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Nope, just saying what I reckon he is thinking based on his previously stated views. Apologists for terrorists do tend to be left of centre in this country, do they not?Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.
Because he is left wing, does that make him a heartless human ?!
Mrs T allowed the sinking of the Belgrano when it was outside of and moving away from the exclusion zone. Using your level of cynicism, one could argue that it was simply a vote pulling move."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
He now has my crown.Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Nope, just saying what I reckon he is thinking based on his previously stated views. Apologists for terrorists do tend to be left of centre in this country, do they not?Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.
Because he is left wing, does that make him a heartless human ?!
Mrs T allowed the sinking of the Belgrano when it was outside of and moving away from the exclusion zone. Using your level of cynicism, one could argue that it was simply a vote pulling move.
Uh?! On the juice?
You have just knocked PBlakeney off the top spot. Anyone would think that you own some very fugly bikes and get poked a bit.
seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
He now has my crown.Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.
My sentiments exactly. If only I had got up 20 seconds earlier today...seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Nope, just saying what I reckon he is thinking based on his previously stated views. Apologists for terrorists do tend to be left of centre in this country, do they not?Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.
Because he is left wing, does that make him a heartless human ?!
Mrs T allowed the sinking of the Belgrano when it was outside of and moving away from the exclusion zone. Using your level of cynicism, one could argue that it was simply a vote pulling move.
What, do you mean his views such as the necessity of an international effort to cut off their funding?
"They are not, as far as I know, a force that wants to negotiate with anybody. My view on Isis is that you have to cut off their money, cut off their arms and cut of their oil sales in order to try and isolate them."
“My view on Isis is that you have to cut off their money, cut off their arms and cut of their oil sales in order to try and isolate them.”
"But you also have to have a political and cultural campaign to try and persuade predominately young people everywhere that there's nothing glamorous or great about what Isis are doing – it's a perversion of Islam."0 -
When Corbyn was publicly calling for negotiations with the IRA, the Tory government was (quite rightly IMO), secretly in contact with them trying to open up peace talks.0
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Actually I wasn't. But it's certainly got Blakeys attention. He'll have to try harder now.
Nope, just saying what I reckon he is thinking based on his previously stated views. Apologists for terrorists do tend to be left of centre in this country, do they not?Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.
Because he is left wing, does that make him a heartless human ?!
Mrs T allowed the sinking of the Belgrano when it was outside of and moving away from the exclusion zone. Using your level of cynicism, one could argue that it was simply a vote pulling move.
Uh?! On the juice?
You have just knocked PBlakeney off the top spot. Anyone would think that you own some very fugly bikes and get poked a bit."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Who said that I was trying?
Actually I wasn't. But it's certainly got Blakeys attention. He'll have to try harder now.
Nope, just saying what I reckon he is thinking based on his previously stated views. Apologists for terrorists do tend to be left of centre in this country, do they not?Stevo: you have just displayed a level of cynicism that has superseded all other cynicism.
Because he is left wing, does that make him a heartless human ?!
Mrs T allowed the sinking of the Belgrano when it was outside of and moving away from the exclusion zone. Using your level of cynicism, one could argue that it was simply a vote pulling move.
Uh?! On the juice?
You have just knocked PBlakeney off the top spot. Anyone would think that you own some very fugly bikes and get poked a bit.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
"They are not, as far as I know, a force that wants to negotiate with anybody. My view on Isis is that you have to cut off their money, cut off their arms and cut of their oil sales in order to try and isolate them."
Corbyn has a point.
Does not sound like a soft approach to me, just a bit more sophisticated than bombing the hell out of them. I think that both method's need to be deployed. This recent attack on Paris seems to point to an ISIS blind spot: if they continue this route, they may be the architects of their own downfall.
Russia have no interest in protecting them, most middle Eastern countries including Iran view them as insidious and disruptive, so where do they go given a unilateral war against them?seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
Although given Corbyns known links with and sympathy with the causes of the IRA, you have to wonder exactly why he was doing this:When Corbyn was publicly calling for negotiations with the IRA, the Tory government was (quite rightly IMO), secretly in contact with them trying to open up peace talks.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Looks like the World has finally woken up to the threat from ISIS and we will probably see coordinated international action against them. Unfortunately they don't know the meaning of negotiation and are determine to attack us, so realistically the best option is to kick the living s**t out of them. Coordinated international action can do this: not an option to be taken lightly but in the end we have to do this."They are not, as far as I know, a force that wants to negotiate with anybody. My view on Isis is that you have to cut off their money, cut off their arms and cut of their oil sales in order to try and isolate them."
Corbyn has a point.
Does not sound like a soft approach to me, just a bit more sophisticated than bombing the hell out of them. I think that both method's need to be deployed. This recent attack on Paris seems to point to an ISIS blind spot: if they continue this route, they may be the architects of their own downfall.
Russia have no interest in protecting them, most middle Eastern countries including Iran view them as insidious and disruptive, so where do they go given a unilateral war against them?
There will be some who will say 'oh but that will create more terrorists'. Well it appears that the growth and apparent success and strength of ISIS is in itself a factor in making more want to join them. Crush them and less will want to join what will then be a bunch of dead losers.
Unfortunately Corbyn would never go anywhere near that option. Not sure how he thinks he can realistically do what he says above."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
ISil is Camerons problem, and the spending cuts effecting armed forces, police, nhs, ambulance/fire services, gchq could very well effect how we could react (or hopefull prevent an attack) to 350 v seriously injured people and 5 or 6 simultaneous attacks in the capitol, let alone another city.
the west allowing IS to have a combined income of 46billion is crazy and does show how non interference in any market, is a huge mistake.0 -
What I want to know is this, who is giving them the 46 billion?the west allowing IS to have a combined income of 46billion is crazy and does show how non interference in any market, is a huge mistake.
Take the easy target first and cut off the supply.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Where do you get that number from? Not saying you are wrong, but interested as that is a very large number.ISil is Camerons problem, and the spending cuts effecting armed forces, police, nhs, ambulance/fire services, gchq could very well effect how we could react (or hopefull prevent an attack) to 350 v seriously injured people and 5 or 6 simultaneous attacks in the capitol, let alone another city.
the west allowing IS to have a combined income of 46billion is crazy and does show how non interference in any market, is a huge mistake.
So far we have done very well in preventing large atrocities after the 7/7 bombings. And as I mentioned above, this is never just going to be the UK. It has to be coordinated international action."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No, i didnt mean to write that figure!
i watched a ch4 news programe on them last week before Paris, and somehow came away with the 46bn, regardless of that, they still have v large income, still in the low billions, since they came into promenance.
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/fact-check-fund-reign-terror/219080
