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  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,327
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Just add money, et voila! :)
    Have the money. So could be a tory.*
    And a social conscience. So not a tory.

    *Which I mostly made during the labour government. Ha!
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Just add money, et voila! :)
    Have the money. So could be a tory.*
    And a social conscience. So not a tory.

    *Which I mostly made during the labour government. Ha!
    I get it. Too much of a moral superiority complex to be a Tory.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,327
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Just add money, et voila! :)
    Have the money. So could be a tory.*
    And a social conscience. So not a tory.

    *Which I mostly made during the labour government. Ha!
    I get it. Too much moral superiority to be a Tory.
    FTFY. :lol:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    I rest my case :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Just add money, et voila! :)
    Have the money. So could be a tory.*
    And a social conscience. So not a tory.

    *Which I mostly made during the labour government. Ha!
    I get it. Too much moral superiority to be a Tory.
    FTFY. :lol:

    Moral superiority or virtue signalling?

    To be clear, you don't have to be rich to have Tory values. After all, 13.6m people voted Tory last year, unless there are 13m rich folk in the UK which would be astounding.
    I'm not rich but believe that in life you paddle your own canoe. If you capsize or hit the rapids, hopefully the State is there to lend a hand.
    Other people, let's call them Labour voters , are content to let others paddle whilst they themselves put their feet up.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,327
    :lol::lol::lol:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,551
    Ballysmate wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Just add money, et voila! :)
    Have the money. So could be a tory.*
    And a social conscience. So not a tory.

    *Which I mostly made during the labour government. Ha!
    I get it. Too much moral superiority to be a Tory.
    FTFY. :lol:

    Moral superiority or virtue signalling?

    To be clear, you don't have to be rich to have Tory values. After all, 13.6m people voted Tory last year, unless there are 13m rich folk in the UK which would be astounding.
    I'm not rich but believe that in life you paddle your own canoe. If you capsize or hit the rapids, hopefully the State is there to lend a hand.
    Other people, let's call them Labour voters , are content to let others paddle whilst they themselves put their feet up.

    What a neat little view of the world.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    rjsterry wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Just add money, et voila! :)
    Have the money. So could be a tory.*
    And a social conscience. So not a tory.

    *Which I mostly made during the labour government. Ha!
    I get it. Too much moral superiority to be a Tory.
    FTFY. :lol:

    Moral superiority or virtue signalling?

    To be clear, you don't have to be rich to have Tory values. After all, 13.6m people voted Tory last year, unless there are 13m rich folk in the UK which would be astounding.
    I'm not rich but believe that in life you paddle your own canoe. If you capsize or hit the rapids, hopefully the State is there to lend a hand.
    Other people, let's call them Labour voters , are content to let others paddle whilst they themselves put their feet up.

    What a neat little view of the world.
    Shush, some of us are busy paddling :wink:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    So Stevo, how are you feeling about this thread’s original premise?

    That as a Tory voter you should vote Tory but become a labour member to make sure Corbyn is their leader in opposition.

    How’s that working out for the nation? Still pleased with both outcomes?
    _
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    Do you think if there is a vote of no confidence in TM's government Labour will find a way into government? How close are we to a Corbyn government in your opinion Stevo?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Re my point on the young:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ility-poll
    eople aged 18 to 24 are the most pessimistic in the UK, with just one in seven thinking their age group has the most opportunity to move up in society, according to a poll.

    Just 13% of 18- to 24-year-olds believe their generation will go on to enjoy the best standard of living, and 12% believe they will be better off financially than older generations.

    The YouGov poll of more than 5,000 people was published on Tuesday to coincide with the launch of the government’s newly reformed Social Mobility Commission under the leadership of the new chair, Dame Martina Milburn.

    Milburn said the findings revealed no progress from a similar poll in 2017. “Last year it revealed a divided ‘us and them’ society and deep pessimism among the young. This year there is little different, with widespread concern that things are getting worse.”

    If you don't think the pie will grow, you start to fight for other people's share of it.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Re my point on the young:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ility-poll
    eople aged 18 to 24 are the most pessimistic in the UK, with just one in seven thinking their age group has the most opportunity to move up in society, according to a poll.

    Just 13% of 18- to 24-year-olds believe their generation will go on to enjoy the best standard of living, and 12% believe they will be better off financially than older generations.

    The YouGov poll of more than 5,000 people was published on Tuesday to coincide with the launch of the government’s newly reformed Social Mobility Commission under the leadership of the new chair, Dame Martina Milburn.

    Milburn said the findings revealed no progress from a similar poll in 2017. “Last year it revealed a divided ‘us and them’ society and deep pessimism among the young. This year there is little different, with widespread concern that things are getting worse.”

    If you don't think the pie will grow, you start to fight for other people's share of it.
    You fight for it regardless - it's a competitive world.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    It's a competitive world but we shouldn't elevate some depressingly Hobbesian view to the status of an ideal.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • robert88
    robert88 Posts: 2,696
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Re my point on the young:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ility-poll
    eople aged 18 to 24 are the most pessimistic in the UK, with just one in seven thinking their age group has the most opportunity to move up in society, according to a poll.

    Just 13% of 18- to 24-year-olds believe their generation will go on to enjoy the best standard of living, and 12% believe they will be better off financially than older generations.

    The YouGov poll of more than 5,000 people was published on Tuesday to coincide with the launch of the government’s newly reformed Social Mobility Commission under the leadership of the new chair, Dame Martina Milburn.

    Milburn said the findings revealed no progress from a similar poll in 2017. “Last year it revealed a divided ‘us and them’ society and deep pessimism among the young. This year there is little different, with widespread concern that things are getting worse.”

    If you don't think the pie will grow, you start to fight for other people's share of it.
    You fight for it regardless - it's a competitive world.

    The problem with that view is that the invention of the nuclear weapon put a damper on the lengths that one can go to compete. Take it too far and competition is fatal for all parties. Reagan attempted to overcome that with his 'star wars' project but it was too expensive.

    In the olden days you could just gather together sufficient force to impose your competitive will and then perch on the midden and crow like a dunghill c0ck.

    Genghis Khan was the supreme competitor in his day:
    The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters.

    Altho' he would probably empathise with the PM:
    Conquering the world on horseback is easy; it is dismounting and governing that is hard.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Re my point on the young:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ility-poll
    eople aged 18 to 24 are the most pessimistic in the UK, with just one in seven thinking their age group has the most opportunity to move up in society, according to a poll.

    Just 13% of 18- to 24-year-olds believe their generation will go on to enjoy the best standard of living, and 12% believe they will be better off financially than older generations.

    The YouGov poll of more than 5,000 people was published on Tuesday to coincide with the launch of the government’s newly reformed Social Mobility Commission under the leadership of the new chair, Dame Martina Milburn.

    Milburn said the findings revealed no progress from a similar poll in 2017. “Last year it revealed a divided ‘us and them’ society and deep pessimism among the young. This year there is little different, with widespread concern that things are getting worse.”

    If you don't think the pie will grow, you start to fight for other people's share of it.
    You fight for it regardless - it's a competitive world.

    **woosh**
    _
  • FocusZing
    FocusZing Posts: 4,373
    Surley it depends on the pie? I wouldn't fight for a Ginsters, but I`d definately get pugilistic over a Misses Miggins pastry.
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    FocusZing wrote:
    Surley it depends on the pie? I wouldn't fight for a Ginsters, but I`d definitely get pugilistic over a Misses Miggins pastry.
    Get yer sen up to Skipton, two of the best pie shops around are there!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Re my point on the young:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ility-poll
    eople aged 18 to 24 are the most pessimistic in the UK, with just one in seven thinking their age group has the most opportunity to move up in society, according to a poll.

    Just 13% of 18- to 24-year-olds believe their generation will go on to enjoy the best standard of living, and 12% believe they will be better off financially than older generations.

    The YouGov poll of more than 5,000 people was published on Tuesday to coincide with the launch of the government’s newly reformed Social Mobility Commission under the leadership of the new chair, Dame Martina Milburn.

    Milburn said the findings revealed no progress from a similar poll in 2017. “Last year it revealed a divided ‘us and them’ society and deep pessimism among the young. This year there is little different, with widespread concern that things are getting worse.”

    If you don't think the pie will grow, you start to fight for other people's share of it.
    You fight for it regardless - it's a competitive world.

    **woosh**
    Well yes but the woosh is over your head. Could account for your relative financial hardship. Maybe don a 'gilet jaune' and go destroying public property, could be more successful than moaning on here about how unfair it all is.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Mate you have no idea about my finances.

    I make a macro point about why youth might be attracted to far left ideology; if you don’t see your opportunities improving and think the world is getting more unequal you’re gonna support Robin Hood politics.
    _
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Stevo 666 wrote:

    Well yes but the woosh is over your head. Could account for your relative financial hardship. Maybe don a 'gilet jaune' and go destroying public property, could be more successful than moaning on here about how unfair it all is.

    Whilst I'm sure very few want a world where individuals carry no personal responsibility for their own destiny I doubt many want a world where the answer to those in need is always well that's your fault.

    There are lots in relative poverty who work hard in necessary roles and do not have the realistic option to reskill and earn more money - but even if they could the idea that being a teaching assistant or hospital porter or pizza delivery guy is "failure" is horrible - we all depend on these people and a society which doesn't reward people working hard in a necessary function is a broken one. You don't have to pay everyone the same but when 2 income families can't afford decent housing, childcare, even food something is wrong.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Mate you have no idea about my finances.

    I make a macro point about why youth might be attracted to far left ideology; if you don’t see your opportunities improving and think the world is getting more unequal you’re gonna support Robin Hood politics.
    You haven't been too bothered about using your perception of my finances against me.

    The points you make could of course be motivated by your own grievances rather than being purely objective and so relevant to the debate. I am simply pointing out that you have aired some of these recently, e.g. cost of commuting.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Mate you have no idea about my finances.

    I make a macro point about why youth might be attracted to far left ideology; if you don’t see your opportunities improving and think the world is getting more unequal you’re gonna support Robin Hood politics.
    You haven't been too bothered about using your perception of my finances against me.

    The points you make could have course be motivated by your own grievances rather than being purely objective and so relevant to the debate. I am simply pointing out that you have aired some of these recently, e.g. cost of commuting.

    I refer to my own experiences as they are illustrative.

    The evidence that it's not my own grievances is a) they don't affect me all that much, b) I'm not supporting far left politics, and c) a whole bunch of youth are.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    What's new about youth supporting leftie politics? They're generally going to be less well off than average and generally more naive when it comes to politicians who claim that they will give them loads of free stuff.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:

    Well yes but the woosh is over your head. Could account for your relative financial hardship. Maybe don a 'gilet jaune' and go destroying public property, could be more successful than moaning on here about how unfair it all is.

    Whilst I'm sure very few want a world where individuals carry no personal responsibility for their own destiny I doubt many want a world where the answer to those in need is always well that's your fault.

    There are lots in relative poverty who work hard in necessary roles and do not have the realistic option to reskill and earn more money - but even if they could the idea that being a teaching assistant or hospital porter or pizza delivery guy is "failure" is horrible - we all depend on these people and a society which doesn't reward people working hard in a necessary function is a broken one. You don't have to pay everyone the same but when 2 income families can't afford decent housing, childcare, even food something is wrong.

    Well put. Not surprised you didn't get a response.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    morstar wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:

    Well yes but the woosh is over your head. Could account for your relative financial hardship. Maybe don a 'gilet jaune' and go destroying public property, could be more successful than moaning on here about how unfair it all is.

    Whilst I'm sure very few want a world where individuals carry no personal responsibility for their own destiny I doubt many want a world where the answer to those in need is always well that's your fault.

    There are lots in relative poverty who work hard in necessary roles and do not have the realistic option to reskill and earn more money - but even if they could the idea that being a teaching assistant or hospital porter or pizza delivery guy is "failure" is horrible - we all depend on these people and a society which doesn't reward people working hard in a necessary function is a broken one. You don't have to pay everyone the same but when 2 income families can't afford decent housing, childcare, even food something is wrong.

    Well put. Not surprised you didn't get a response.
    This sort of stuff has all been debated on here before so I don't feel a great need to repeat myself.

    People also forget that I started this thread for a bit of a laugh but it was the humourless responses from certain forumites that helped to turned it into the long running political saga that it is today. Go read the first few pages :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    So Stevo, how are you feeling about this thread’s original premise?

    That as a Tory voter you should vote Tory but become a labour member to make sure Corbyn is their leader in opposition.

    How’s that working out for the nation? Still pleased with both outcomes?
    Are Labour in power? No. Working so far...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Tangled Metal wrote:
    Do you think if there is a vote of no confidence in TM's government Labour will find a way into government? How close are we to a Corbyn government in your opinion Stevo?
    Not very close.

    If Corbyn thought he could win a GE he'd press for a no confidence vote, but he bottled it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    It's a competitive world but we shouldn't elevate some depressingly Hobbesian view to the status of an ideal.
    Some people on here appear to think that we shouldn't compete - which is a bit weird given that it's human nature.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    So Stevo, how are you feeling about this thread’s original premise?

    That as a Tory voter you should vote Tory but become a labour member to make sure Corbyn is their leader in opposition.

    How’s that working out for the nation? Still pleased with both outcomes?
    Are Labour in power? No. Working so far...

    With the current shower on all sides of the house, can anyone really claim politics is working.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,398
    Jez mon wrote:
    can anyone really claim politics is working.
    Not really, but there's another thread for that.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]

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