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You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
He didn't live through the 70's for starters.Shortfall wrote:rjsterry wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Shortfall wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Oh for the last time neither did the generation before who voted for Cameron, not the generation before who voted Blair in in record numbers.
That's because the Labour Party had spent the previous 30 odd years attempting to distance itself from the hard left. The last leader it had who was remotely like Corbyn was the disastrous Michael Foot. Quite why Labour ended up with a leader to the left of Michael Foot in the modern era is anyone's guess, but it is his good fortune that his voting demographic have either forgotten or never knew how ruinous his favoured economic policies were for both the country and the Labour Party. In short people couldn't vote for the likes of Jeremy Corbyn because they'd been rightly consigned to the political dustbin and didn't appear on the ballot paper.
The original point was why are the current young generation voting for Corbyn; then someone said “they don’t remember the winter of discontent” - which is pointless because, as per above, two generations before who also didn’t remember it didn’t vote for a guy on the far left...
Arguably there wasn't a far left option until Corbyn became Labour leader.
This is exactly what I am saying and the reason was (in part) because we had the winter of discontent and the far left was consigned to the political wilderness. By some miracle Corbyn has now found himself as leader of the opposition and his simple message is appealing to young voters who didn't live through the 70s. This simple point seems to be lost on Rick.
Which brings me back to my point about having a leftiebollox disaster remembrance day."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
PBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
Please don't interpret my criticisms of Corbyn as any endorsement for the Conservative party. I'm just attempting to answer Rick's question about why Corbyn is apparently so popular, particularly amongst young voters.0 -
There was more than yourself involved....Shortfall wrote:PBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
Please don't interpret my criticisms of Corbyn as any endorsement for the Conservative party. I'm just attempting to answer Rick's question about why Corbyn is apparently so popular, particularly amongst young voters.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Shortfall wrote:PBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
Please don't interpret my criticisms of Corbyn as any endorsement for the Conservative party. I'm just attempting to answer Rick's question about why Corbyn is apparently so popular, particularly amongst young voters.
Oh man.
‘90s Bliar was popule with youth.
Winter of discontent is an irrelevance in modern politics.
It is a decade of reduced opportunities, falling real wages, increases living costs, whether they be rent, house prices, transport, childcare, etc. It has also seen fewer public services available and an increase in the debt many young people have to take on for university.
In that same decade the only people to see their earnings improve are those who are already well off.
It is THAT that breeds young people to believe in things like Corbyn.
NOT missing out on the newspaper clippings of late ‘70s UK: the GFC dwarfs all of that in collective consciousness.0 -
Did he win the last GE? Maybe I missed somethingPBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
That it was closer than expected and he is still party leader.Stevo 666 wrote:
Did he win the last GE? Maybe I missed somethingPBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
And still will be while the Tories are fighting an uncivil war.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
So the answer is 'No'. A loss is a loss.PBlakeney wrote:
That it was closer than expected and he is still party leader.Stevo 666 wrote:
Did he win the last GE? Maybe I missed somethingPBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
And still will be while the Tories are fighting an uncivil war.
And Labour are hardly united are they."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Yay, you're voting for my next pay rise to be a big 'unBelgianBeerGeek wrote:
Never voted Labour in my life. Will do next time.Stevo 666 wrote:
What do you mean next time?LeftieBeerGeek wrote:I’m voting for the Trots next time. One bunch of clowns for another. As a civil servant I’ll be quids in and it’ll give you Tory nuggets a kick up the aris. C’mon Bally and Stevo lets get something going!
You not voted Labour before?
Imagine if Corbyn's lot got in: do you think my skill set would be more or less in demand? Every cloud...
That said, the latest views I read put the possibility of Commie Captain Birdseye making it into Number 10 as less than 5%.
As for yourself, the phrase 'careful what you wish for' springs to mind when the tax revenue that pays your wages starts slipping offshore - if he ever got in."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Shortfall wrote:PBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
Please don't interpret my criticisms of Corbyn as any endorsement for the Conservative party. I'm just attempting to answer Rick's question about why Corbyn is apparently so popular, particularly amongst young voters.
Oh man.
‘90s Bliar was popule with youth.
Winter of discontent is an irrelevance in modern politics.
It is a decade of reduced opportunities, falling real wages, increases living costs, whether they be rent, house prices, transport, childcare, etc. It has also seen fewer public services available and an increase in the debt many young people have to take on for university.
In that same decade the only people to see their earnings improve are those who are already well off.
It is THAT that breeds young people to believe in things like Corbyn.
NOT missing out on the newspaper clippings of late ‘70s UK: the GFC dwarfs all of that in collective consciousness.
Rick I don't know what part of this is so difficult for you to understand. You said
He's popular with young people because he offers them hope and pretends that all their problems will disappear with a colossal spending spree paid for by unprecedented borrowing and by taxing the undeserving rich and corporations apprently without harming the economy. They believe him because they have no collective memory of what happened in this country last time it was tried. You then asked why nobody was voting for the hard left over the last 40 years and I explained why, because the hard left was associated with industrial unrest, rocketing inflation and national bankruptcy and out of this came Blairism. There weren't many Marxists left on the ballot paper after that. If you think that's an irrelevance then I can't help you.Which obviously begs the question, what is making people (predominantly young people) support him?0 -
Your £50 was a loss. TM didn't win now, did she?Stevo 666 wrote:So the answer is 'No'. A loss is a loss.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Clearly her party won.PBlakeney wrote:
Your £50 was a loss. TM didn't win now, did she?Stevo 666 wrote:So the answer is 'No'. A loss is a loss.
Very happy to make a charitable donation, it went to a good cause - unlike a lot our tax if Labour get in."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Shortfall wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Shortfall wrote:PBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
Please don't interpret my criticisms of Corbyn as any endorsement for the Conservative party. I'm just attempting to answer Rick's question about why Corbyn is apparently so popular, particularly amongst young voters.
Oh man.
‘90s Bliar was popule with youth.
Winter of discontent is an irrelevance in modern politics.
It is a decade of reduced opportunities, falling real wages, increases living costs, whether they be rent, house prices, transport, childcare, etc. It has also seen fewer public services available and an increase in the debt many young people have to take on for university.
In that same decade the only people to see their earnings improve are those who are already well off.
It is THAT that breeds young people to believe in things like Corbyn.
NOT missing out on the newspaper clippings of late ‘70s UK: the GFC dwarfs all of that in collective consciousness.
Rick I don't know what part of this is so difficult for you to understand. You said
He's popular with young people because he offers them hope and pretends that all their problems will disappear with a colossal spending spree paid for by unprecedented borrowing and by taxing the undeserving rich and corporations apprently without harming the economy. They believe him because they have no collective memory of what happened in this country last time it was tried. You then asked why nobody was voting for the hard left over the last 40 years and I explained why, because the hard left was associated with industrial unrest, rocketing inflation and national bankruptcy and out of this came Blairism. There weren't many Marxists left on the ballot paper after that. If you think that's an irrelevance then I can't help you.Which obviously begs the question, what is making people (predominantly young people) support him?
Right this is going around in circles.
It’s almost like Corbyn wasn’t in Parliament during the ‘90s and ‘00s spouting the same stuff he is now.
If you can’t see that people like Corbyn, and even Corbyn himself, hve been making the case since socialism started and it’s the conditions people find themselves in that makes them ready to listen, you miss the point.
Corbyn is not exceptional. He is not charismatic, nor is he a product of the last 10 years. He is a voice that has been continually sounding for more than half a century.
It’s only now people listen, because their circumstances make them open to it.
He was promising the same stuff in the ‘90s and guess what, not many young people cared. I wonder why.
I get you think “if only they remembered the 70s they wouldn’t vote” but they don’t. Other generations also don’t and that doesn’t automatically make them susceptible to Corbyn, so it’s pbviously something else.
Why are you so keen to ignore the obvious economic and socioeconomic problems as a key cause?0 -
Plenty of Tory voters who were around during Black Friday voted in a Tory party to clear up the GFC, even when the very same politicians criticised labour for being too tough on the City.
These things matter less than voters’ current socioeconomic circumstances.0 -
There is a sliding scale in these things. I doubt Corbyn wants a return to 98% income tax.
There are countries with lower tax burdens and ones with higher tax burdens than the UK. It is for the electorate to decide which they prefer, but all are possible.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Shortfall wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Shortfall wrote:PBlakeney wrote:You'd think he had been trounced at the last GE going from the above.
The fact that he wasn't and is more likely to be a party leader than TM come the next GE is quite telling.
Please don't interpret my criticisms of Corbyn as any endorsement for the Conservative party. I'm just attempting to answer Rick's question about why Corbyn is apparently so popular, particularly amongst young voters.
Oh man.
‘90s Bliar was popule with youth.
Winter of discontent is an irrelevance in modern politics.
It is a decade of reduced opportunities, falling real wages, increases living costs, whether they be rent, house prices, transport, childcare, etc. It has also seen fewer public services available and an increase in the debt many young people have to take on for university.
In that same decade the only people to see their earnings improve are those who are already well off.
It is THAT that breeds young people to believe in things like Corbyn.
NOT missing out on the newspaper clippings of late ‘70s UK: the GFC dwarfs all of that in collective consciousness.
Rick I don't know what part of this is so difficult for you to understand. You said
He's popular with young people because he offers them hope and pretends that all their problems will disappear with a colossal spending spree paid for by unprecedented borrowing and by taxing the undeserving rich and corporations apprently without harming the economy. They believe him because they have no collective memory of what happened in this country last time it was tried. You then asked why nobody was voting for the hard left over the last 40 years and I explained why, because the hard left was associated with industrial unrest, rocketing inflation and national bankruptcy and out of this came Blairism. There weren't many Marxists left on the ballot paper after that. If you think that's an irrelevance then I can't help you.Which obviously begs the question, what is making people (predominantly young people) support him?
Right this is going around in circles.
It’s almost like Corbyn wasn’t in Parliament during the ‘90s and ‘00s spouting the same stuff he is now.
If you can’t see that people like Corbyn, and even Corbyn himself, hve been making the case since socialism started and it’s the conditions people find themselves in that makes them ready to listen, you miss the point.
Corbyn is not exceptional. He is not charismatic, nor is he a product of the last 10 years. He is a voice that has been continually sounding for more than half a century.
It’s only now people listen, because their circumstances make them open to it.
He was promising the same stuff in the ‘90s and guess what, not many young people cared. I wonder why.
I get you think “if only they remembered the 70s they wouldn’t vote” but they don’t. Other generations also don’t and that doesn’t automatically make them susceptible to Corbyn, so it’s pbviously something else.
Why are you so keen to ignore the obvious economic and socioeconomic problems as a key cause?
I actually agree with a lot of what you say above. The point being that his brand of politics was consigned the the outermost fringes for decades and people like him even if they appeared on a ballot paper were unelectable. I accept that the current state of the country makes him quite appealing to the youth vote but what I also say is that many of us who remember socialist rule are in no hurry to usher it back in.0 -
Her party + the DUP.Stevo 666 wrote:
How’s that working out?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Shortfall wrote:
This is exactly what I am saying and the reason was (in part) because we had the winter of discontent and the far left was consigned to the political wilderness. By some miracle Corbyn has now found himself as leader of the opposition and his simple message is appealing to young voters who didn't live through the 70s. This simple point seems to be lost on Rick.
Again you have to remember that the Falklands and the biggest split in the Labour party ever played a huge role in Foot losing that election so badly. It wasn't purely a vote against left wing economics and the 1970s - in fact initially Foot becoming leader led to a short upswing in support and Labour were well ahead of the Tories in the polls - this is when the winter of discontent was still fresh in voters' minds.
Also the 70s was still part of the era of consensus politics - Wilson and Callaghan did not lead some ultra left wing govt.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Shortfall wrote:
This is exactly what I am saying and the reason was (in part) because we had the winter of discontent and the far left was consigned to the political wilderness. By some miracle Corbyn has now found himself as leader of the opposition and his simple message is appealing to young voters who didn't live through the 70s. This simple point seems to be lost on Rick.
Again you have to remember that the Falklands and the biggest split in the Labour party ever played a huge role in Foot losing that election so badly. It wasn't purely a vote against left wing economics and the 1970s - in fact initially Foot becoming leader led to a short upswing in support and Labour were well ahead of the Tories in the polls - this is when the winter of discontent was still fresh in voters' minds.
Also the 70s was still part of the era of consensus politics - Wilson and Callaghan did not lead some ultra left wing govt.
As ever there wasn't any one thing that led to one side winning and the other losing but I would suggest that the memory of what amounted to national bankruptcy loomed large in the memories of many voters. My memory may be clouded but I remember Foot being seen as a rather tragic figure and someone who was widely villified for his suicidal manifesto which included unilateral nuclear disarmament at the height of the cold war. I can see the appeal of Corbyn, especially with the abject failure of the Tories in recent years, I just happen to think that any government he led would be absolutely disastrous.0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Shortfall wrote:
This is exactly what I am saying and the reason was (in part) because we had the winter of discontent and the far left was consigned to the political wilderness. By some miracle Corbyn has now found himself as leader of the opposition and his simple message is appealing to young voters who didn't live through the 70s. This simple point seems to be lost on Rick.
Again you have to remember that the Falklands and the biggest split in the Labour party ever played a huge role in Foot losing that election so badly. It wasn't purely a vote against left wing economics and the 1970s - in fact initially Foot becoming leader led to a short upswing in support and Labour were well ahead of the Tories in the polls - this is when the winter of discontent was still fresh in voters' minds.
Also the 70s was still part of the era of consensus politics - Wilson and Callaghan did not lead some ultra left wing govt.
Just had a read because I thought my memory was playing tricks on me following what you wrote. The SDP was formed when four prominent Labour Party moderates split from the party. From Wikipedia:
"The four left the Labour Party as a result of the January 1981 Wembley conference which committed the party to unilateral nuclear disarmament and withdrawal from the European Economic Community. They also believed that Labour had become too left-wing, and had been infiltrated at constituency party level by Trotskyist factions whose views and behaviour they considered to be at odds with the Parliamentary Labour Party and Labour voters"
In other words Michael Foot was leading a massively divided party who were splitting themselves apart over left wing infiltration and its future direction of travel. Gerald Kaufman described Foot's 83 manifesto as the longest suicide note in history because it was far too left leaning. The country roundly rejected that manifesto. Corbyn promises a return to that era, the young should be careful what they wish for.0 -
Ah, but you’d be wrong there as I don’t have a “lot”. I am not tied to any one party unlike some. I have even voted Tory in the past.Stevo 666 wrote:The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Was a bittersweet win though wasn't it? She went from a majority with just her party of 12 MPs iirc to a government needing a supply and confidence agreement with the DUP. Corbyn wasn't humiliated and dumped by his party but he increased his share of the vote. If that's a win it's one that I'd have preferred to have never experienced in the first place.Stevo 666 wrote:0 -
There's hope for you yet.PBlakeney wrote:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
She should not have called the last GE but hey, a win's a win.Tangled Metal wrote:
Was a bittersweet win though wasn't it? She went from a majority with just her party of 12 MPs iirc to a government needing a supply and confidence agreement with the DUP. Corbyn wasn't humiliated and dumped by his party but he increased his share of the vote. If that's a win it's one that I'd have preferred to have never experienced in the first place.Stevo 666 wrote:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
There is.Stevo 666 wrote:There's hope for you yet.
But I am not relying on politicians to make it happen though.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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And yet, not.Stevo 666 wrote:The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Just add money, et voila! "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
