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Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

The real question is timing.

Why have they brought this out now? It's not a time sensitive story.

Maybe they only recently unearthed it. That said, I dont really care.

Whatever he did or didn't say to this Czech spy may never be established but the fact that he met the guy on several occasions says something about the judgment of someone who aspires to high office.

pblakeney

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The real question is timing.

Why have they brought this out now? It's not a time sensitive story.

Maybe they only recently unearthed it. That said, I dont really care.

Whatever he did or didn't say to this Czech spy may never be established but the fact that he met the guy on several occasions says something about the judgment of someone who aspires to high office.

Lets start a proper witch hunt then.
"Interpreter who worked with Theresa May at No 10 arrested as ‘Russian spy’".
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/89535 ... y-arrested

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The real question is timing.

Why have they brought this out now? It's not a time sensitive story.

Maybe they only recently unearthed it. That said, I dont really care.

Whatever he did or didn't say to this Czech spy may never be established but the fact that he met the guy on several occasions says something about the judgment of someone who aspires to high office.

You're a bit naive if you think they'll report things like this as soon as they unearth it. Particularly anti-Labour stuff; Tories are well known to be quite disciplined with this kind of thing.

Though it all seems a bit heavily manufactured.

Especially when you have things like this:

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/96 ... 05?lang=en



where foreign institutions are actually having to correct the debate going on in the UK.

rolf_f

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The real question is timing.

Why have they brought this out now? It's not a time sensitive story.

Maybe they only recently unearthed it. That said, I dont really care.

Whatever he did or didn't say to this Czech spy may never be established but the fact that he met the guy on several occasions says something about the judgment of someone who aspires to high office.

It does indeed but remember what standards we are dealing with now - the last two people in this country to aspire to the top office and achieve it were Cameron and May. You'll have to do better than a few dodgy meetings as an indicator for unfitness for office given the current benchmarks!

rolf_f

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The real question is timing.

Why have they brought this out now? It's not a time sensitive story.

Maybe they only recently unearthed it. That said, I dont really care.

Whatever he did or didn't say to this Czech spy may never be established but the fact that he met the guy on several occasions says something about the judgment of someone who aspires to high office.

You're a bit naive if you think they'll report things like this as soon as they unearth it. Particularly anti-Labour stuff; Tories are well known to be quite disciplined with this kind of thing.

Though it all seems a bit heavily manufactured.

Especially when you have things like this:

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/96 ... 05?lang=en

where foreign institutions are actually having to correct the debate going on in the UK.

e are starting to feel like the baby of Europe - constantly needing to have it's bottom wiped and being spoon fed. We can't determine issues like this, we can't come up with proper proposals for Brexit conditions. We just seem to sit in the corner having tantrums.

tangled_metal

Hah! Good post. With the Tory Brexit situation we do come across as a petty, childish nation. Stevo seems like a good example the way he keeps banging on about a fake news item that's been discredited.

As I've said before, I've lost the Tory party to a bunch of loon and crazies. Right now they're making Corbyn look good!

Mamba - I'm coming round to your view! I'm turning from politically true blue to red. Currently purple!

Stevo_666

Quite a few Corbyn sympathisers given how people are jumping up to deflect...

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The real question is timing.

Why have they brought this out now? It's not a time sensitive story.

Maybe they only recently unearthed it. That said, I dont really care.

Whatever he did or didn't say to this Czech spy may never be established but the fact that he met the guy on several occasions says something about the judgment of someone who aspires to high office.

You're a bit naive if you think they'll report things like this as soon as they unearth it. Particularly anti-Labour stuff; Tories are well known to be quite disciplined with this kind of thing.

Though it all seems a bit heavily manufactured.

Especially when you have things like this:

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/96 ... 05?lang=en



where foreign institutions are actually having to correct the debate going on in the UK.

I only said maybe...although if it was timed to cause him damage then who cares - that's politics.

rick_chasey

Yeah no sh!t sherlock, the question is what the motive is.

There have been a lot of rumours about Tory election HQ being put on a war footing and Tories ringing up big ticket donors for a potential election, around the same time these stories came out.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The real question is timing.

Why have they brought this out now? It's not a time sensitive story.

Maybe they only recently unearthed it. That said, I dont really care.

Whatever he did or didn't say to this Czech spy may never be established but the fact that he met the guy on several occasions says something about the judgment of someone who aspires to high office.

You're a bit naive if you think they'll report things like this as soon as they unearth it. Particularly anti-Labour stuff; Tories are well known to be quite disciplined with this kind of thing.

Though it all seems a bit heavily manufactured.

Especially when you have things like this:

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/96 ... 05?lang=en



where foreign institutions are actually having to correct the debate going on in the UK.

I suppose we should take it as a positive for Corbyn that he wasn't collaborating with the Stasi

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yeah no sh!t sherlock, the question is what the motive is.

There have been a lot of rumours about Tory election HQ being put on a war footing and Tories ringing up big ticket donors for a potential election, around the same time these stories came out.

Which could be proper planning or throwing the gauntlet at Boris Rees Mogg

kingstongraham

Stevo 666 wrote:

I suppose we should take it as a positive for Corbyn that he wasn't collaborating with the Stasi

They probably never asked - it's not like he was ever going to get anywhere near holding any influential office.

Oh.

tangled_metal

If he does get into power a few right-wing infiltrators helping him into the Labour leadership role will probably be kicking themselves. Of course my stevo style tin hat on for a moment makes me ask is studio l stevo working for the stasi too in their long term plan to get Corbyn there sleeper into number 10?

Jez mon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yeah no sh!t sherlock, the question is what the motive is.

There have been a lot of rumours about Tory election HQ being put on a war footing and Tories ringing up big ticket donors for a potential election, around the same time these stories came out.

Oooo another one, that's exciting, haven't had a good vote in a while now.

tangled_metal

BTW how would an election help the Tories right now? I think the Tory hq war footing will just be about countering Labour games about creating trouble over Brexit. Trying to create a wedge between Tory factions to bring May's government down. They need to sort that out. I just don't think ridiculous stories like Czech spies will do that as well as splitting Tory factions works for Labour. So far Labour seem to be the smart cookies in politics!

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yeah no sh!t sherlock, the question is what the motive is.

There have been a lot of rumours about Tory election HQ being put on a war footing and Tories ringing up big ticket donors for a potential election, around the same time these stories came out.

I would guess its a case of sensible 'prepare for the worst' type planning.

Stevo_666

Tangled Metal wrote:

If he does get into power a few right-wing infiltrators helping him into the Labour leadership role will probably be kicking themselves. Of course my stevo style tin hat on for a moment makes me ask is studio l stevo working for the stasi too in their long term plan to get Corbyn there sleeper into number 10?

Not sure who 'studio l Stevo' is? But I'm sure he was never part of the previous moderation team

rick_chasey

Tangled Metal wrote:

BTW how would an election help the Tories right now? I think the Tory hq war footing will just be about countering Labour games about creating trouble over Brexit. Trying to create a wedge between Tory factions to bring May's government down. They need to sort that out. I just don't think ridiculous stories like Czech spies will do that as well as splitting Tory factions works for Labour. So far Labour seem to be the smart cookies in politics!

If May gets ousted/steps down their hand may be forced.

I would imagine an election to ratify the future of Britain's relationship with the EU is probably more likely than a new ref on the subject too.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

BTW how would an election help the Tories right now? I think the Tory hq war footing will just be about countering Labour games about creating trouble over Brexit. Trying to create a wedge between Tory factions to bring May's government down. They need to sort that out. I just don't think ridiculous stories like Czech spies will do that as well as splitting Tory factions works for Labour. So far Labour seem to be the smart cookies in politics!

If May gets ousted/steps down their hand may be forced.

I would imagine an election to ratify the future of Britain's relationship with the EU is probably more likely than a new ref on the subject too.

Possibly on the first point, agree on the second.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

BTW how would an election help the Tories right now? I think the Tory hq war footing will just be about countering Labour games about creating trouble over Brexit. Trying to create a wedge between Tory factions to bring May's government down. They need to sort that out. I just don't think ridiculous stories like Czech spies will do that as well as splitting Tory factions works for Labour. So far Labour seem to be the smart cookies in politics!

If May gets ousted/steps down their hand may be forced.

I would imagine an election to ratify the future of Britain's relationship with the EU is probably more likely than a new ref on the subject too.

what would an election to decide Britain's future relationship with the EU look like?

If I agree with a Labour policy on CU but think that Mcdonnel is far too dangerous to vote for, plus I live in a constituency where tactical voting is a factor how does my vote endorse any party's vision for Brexit. Or alternatively my MP has a 30,000 vote majority so my vote really does count for sh1t

That sounds even more pointless than a second referendum which if the Remain side wakes up will degenerate into who can promise the most money for the NHS alongside massive tax cuts and longer hotter summers.

Jez mon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

BTW how would an election help the Tories right now? I think the Tory hq war footing will just be about countering Labour games about creating trouble over Brexit. Trying to create a wedge between Tory factions to bring May's government down. They need to sort that out. I just don't think ridiculous stories like Czech spies will do that as well as splitting Tory factions works for Labour. So far Labour seem to be the smart cookies in politics!

If May gets ousted/steps down their hand may be forced.

I would imagine an election to ratify the future of Britain's relationship with the EU is probably more likely than a new ref on the subject too.

what would an election to decide Britain's future relationship with the EU look like?

If I agree with a Labour policy on CU but think that Mcdonnel is far too dangerous to vote for, plus I live in a constituency where tactical voting is a factor how does my vote endorse any party's vision for Brexit. Or alternatively my MP has a 30,000 vote majority so my vote really does count for sh1t

That sounds even more pointless than a second referendum which if the Remain side wakes up will degenerate into who can promise the most money for the NHS alongside massive tax cuts and longer hotter summers.

I'd put it as, vote for staying in the Customs Union, then grin and bear it. Given how many blairites still exist in the background of Labour, I think the day-to-day running of a Corbyn lead government would be pretty chaotic. I can see them coming together to defeat the Tories, going onto delivering a middling brexit, then falling apart when it came to the day after brexit.

surrey_commuter

Jez mon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

BTW how would an election help the Tories right now? I think the Tory hq war footing will just be about countering Labour games about creating trouble over Brexit. Trying to create a wedge between Tory factions to bring May's government down. They need to sort that out. I just don't think ridiculous stories like Czech spies will do that as well as splitting Tory factions works for Labour. So far Labour seem to be the smart cookies in politics!

If May gets ousted/steps down their hand may be forced.

I would imagine an election to ratify the future of Britain's relationship with the EU is probably more likely than a new ref on the subject too.

what would an election to decide Britain's future relationship with the EU look like?

If I agree with a Labour policy on CU but think that Mcdonnel is far too dangerous to vote for, plus I live in a constituency where tactical voting is a factor how does my vote endorse any party's vision for Brexit. Or alternatively my MP has a 30,000 vote majority so my vote really does count for sh1t

That sounds even more pointless than a second referendum which if the Remain side wakes up will degenerate into who can promise the most money for the NHS alongside massive tax cuts and longer hotter summers.

I'd put it as, vote for staying in the Customs Union, then grin and bear it. Given how many blairites still exist in the background of Labour, I think the day-to-day running of a Corbyn lead government would be pretty chaotic. I can see them coming together to defeat the Tories, going onto delivering a middling brexit, then falling apart when it came to the day after brexit.

I feel you are being too optimistic. Momentum are burrowing deep into the Labour Party. They are close to a position where they will be able to make sure who his successor is. this may work in TM's favour as the longer the wait for an election the more levers of power they can grab. So whilst chaotic it is unlikely to end with the hard left not in power.

Jez mon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I feel you are being too optimistic. Momentum are burrowing deep into the Labour Party. They are close to a position where they will be able to make sure who his successor is. this may work in TM's favour as the longer the wait for an election the more levers of power they can grab. So whilst chaotic it is unlikely to end with the hard left not in power.

Probably, ultimately I feel that once they got into power, momentum would find that actually they would struggle organising the proverbial pee up in a brewery, but that may well be because I don't actually know enough about them. Are they just an unholy alliance of Social Justice Warriors and old socialists who were pushed to the back during the Blair years, that is poised to crumble when they realise they don't have much in common beyond a loathing of Blair and Tories? Or have they got more going for them than that?

rjsterry

Unite aren't going to give up their influence quietly.

surrey_commuter

Jez mon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I feel you are being too optimistic. Momentum are burrowing deep into the Labour Party. They are close to a position where they will be able to make sure who his successor is. this may work in TM's favour as the longer the wait for an election the more levers of power they can grab. So whilst chaotic it is unlikely to end with the hard left not in power.

Probably, ultimately I feel that once they got into power, momentum would find that actually they would struggle organising the proverbial pee up in a brewery, but that may well be because I don't actually know enough about them. Are they just an unholy alliance of Social Justice Warriors and old socialists who were pushed to the back during the Blair years, that is poised to crumble when they realise they don't have much in common beyond a loathing of Blair and Tories? Or have they got more going for them than that?

I see them as very controlled and controlling. if you are old enough think Militant if Kinnock had not kicked them out.

The days of voting for jezza for a laugh are long gone and I am amazed that the MPs who put him on the ballot paper are not castigated

rjsterry beat me to it - these people fought all their lives for this moment and like the ERG they would rather see their party rent asunder than give up.

Jez mon

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I feel you are being too optimistic. Momentum are burrowing deep into the Labour Party. They are close to a position where they will be able to make sure who his successor is. this may work in TM's favour as the longer the wait for an election the more levers of power they can grab. So whilst chaotic it is unlikely to end with the hard left not in power.

Probably, ultimately I feel that once they got into power, momentum would find that actually they would struggle organising the proverbial pee up in a brewery, but that may well be because I don't actually know enough about them. Are they just an unholy alliance of Social Justice Warriors and old socialists who were pushed to the back during the Blair years, that is poised to crumble when they realise they don't have much in common beyond a loathing of Blair and Tories? Or have they got more going for them than that?

I see them as very controlled and controlling. if you are old enough think Militant if Kinnock had not kicked them out.

The days of voting for jezza for a laugh are long gone and I am amazed that the MPs who put him on the ballot paper are not castigated

rjsterry beat me to it - these people fought all their lives for this moment and like the ERG they would rather see their party rent asunder than give up.

Fortunately/Unfortunately, not old enough!

I guess it's a sign of Momentum's success that the MPs that put him on the ballot paper aren't castigated. I also don't see a good way of fixing this. Either the ERG dominated Tories, or the Momentum backed Labour party.

briantrumpet

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I see them as very controlled and controlling. if you are old enough think Militant if Kinnock had not kicked them out.

For all his windbaggery, the moment in the speech where he tore into Militant was a great bit of theatre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9d7ahKWcsM

surrey_commuter

briantrumpet wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I see them as very controlled and controlling. if you are old enough think Militant if Kinnock had not kicked them out.

For all his windbaggery, the moment in the speech where he tore into Militant was a great bit of theatre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9d7ahKWcsM

He was a very good public speaker and now Derek Hatton is on the podium giving the speech

surrey_commuter

Jez mon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I feel you are being too optimistic. Momentum are burrowing deep into the Labour Party. They are close to a position where they will be able to make sure who his successor is. this may work in TM's favour as the longer the wait for an election the more levers of power they can grab. So whilst chaotic it is unlikely to end with the hard left not in power.

Probably, ultimately I feel that once they got into power, momentum would find that actually they would struggle organising the proverbial pee up in a brewery, but that may well be because I don't actually know enough about them. Are they just an unholy alliance of Social Justice Warriors and old socialists who were pushed to the back during the Blair years, that is poised to crumble when they realise they don't have much in common beyond a loathing of Blair and Tories? Or have they got more going for them than that?

I see them as very controlled and controlling. if you are old enough think Militant if Kinnock had not kicked them out.

The days of voting for jezza for a laugh are long gone and I am amazed that the MPs who put him on the ballot paper are not castigated

rjsterry beat me to it - these people fought all their lives for this moment and like the ERG they would rather see their party rent asunder than give up.

Fortunately/Unfortunately, not old enough!

I guess it's a sign of Momentum's success that the MPs that put him on the ballot paper aren't castigated. I also don't see a good way of fixing this. Either the ERG dominated Tories, or the Momentum backed Labour party.

Both Momentum and ERG are represented in Parliament by about 50 3rd rate no hopers, has beens and never will be’s. Their power lies in the membership and the fact that by definition to join a political party you must be a grade A weirdo. These people overwhelmingly voted for JC and their counterparts would happily vote for JRM or Coco the Clown. The Parliamentary Tory Party’s problem is to put two non-joke candidates before the membership. Bizarrely (?) the Leave side is utterly bereft of talent, almost as if the two facts are linked and so increasing the possibility of the Tories ending up with a leader as inappropriate as Labour.

rjsterry

Posted in here as it's loosely related.

At first glance some quite sensible suggestions from David Willets. A shame those across the corridor seem so incapable.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -tory-peer

Main points:

The big hole in public finances would, if tackled just through income tax, add 15p to the basic rate.

To spread the cost more evenly across the population, Willets proposes targeting accumulated wealth - a reduction of the inheritance tax rate, but a broadening of the base. Also an overhaul of Council Tax to reflect the much wider spread of property values.

Paging Stevo...