Join the Labour Party and save your country!

rolf_f

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Bobbygloss wrote:

I have to disagree with the quality of Norwegian roads. There are many high-profile ultra expensive (and unnecessary) trunk road and cycle path projects which are good quality, but there are also many minor roads (the better cycle routes) and normal streets with a terrible surface, and terrible repair practices involving fresh asphalt being laid over the old surface, so it sinks into the same holes after a few weeks.

I guess the Norwegian road look different when you aren't looking at them with rose tinted specs as some people on here are doing It also helps if you have vast natural reserves to export which are very large in relation to the size of your economy/population.

OK then. You purport to be big on facts. What's your experience of Norwegian roads as you sound so knowledgeable about them? Mine, as I partly explained, is a good 4000 of them ridden from the Southern border with Sweden to Kirkenes in the far North. Whatever colour my specs were they most definitely weren't rose tinted. Furthermore, whilst the vast natural reserves do help, the point that I thought I was making clearly enough for the likes of Coopster let alone yourself is that they are spending wisely - investing in doing things properly. The whole point of which is that it pays off in the long run. The natural reserves are frittered away on the OTT big projects that Bobbygloss mentioned but this isn't about that - just doing the routine work properly in the first place, and then doing preventative maintenance, makes more economic and environmental sense than repeatedly doing the same job badly.

You don't help your arguments by agreeing with people on topics that you know nothing of just because that point of view serves your argument.

Would you like a winking smiley with that?

Average, from what I've seen on my business trips there.

Maybe they need to resurface the road from the airport to the centre of Oslo then.... Are you driving? Are you a passenger? Are you cycling?

Honestly, the roads are terrific there. You've perhaps been unlucky.

bobbygloss

Rolf F wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Bobbygloss wrote:

I have to disagree with the quality of Norwegian roads. There are many high-profile ultra expensive (and unnecessary) trunk road and cycle path projects which are good quality, but there are also many minor roads (the better cycle routes) and normal streets with a terrible surface, and terrible repair practices involving fresh asphalt being laid over the old surface, so it sinks into the same holes after a few weeks.

I guess the Norwegian road look different when you aren't looking at them with rose tinted specs as some people on here are doing It also helps if you have vast natural reserves to export which are very large in relation to the size of your economy/population.

OK then. You purport to be big on facts. What's your experience of Norwegian roads as you sound so knowledgeable about them? Mine, as I partly explained, is a good 4000 of them ridden from the Southern border with Sweden to Kirkenes in the far North. Whatever colour my specs were they most definitely weren't rose tinted. Furthermore, whilst the vast natural reserves do help, the point that I thought I was making clearly enough for the likes of Coopster let alone yourself is that they are spending wisely - investing in doing things properly. The whole point of which is that it pays off in the long run. The natural reserves are frittered away on the OTT big projects that Bobbygloss mentioned but this isn't about that - just doing the routine work properly in the first place, and then doing preventative maintenance, makes more economic and environmental sense than repeatedly doing the same job badly.

You don't help your arguments by agreeing with people on topics that you know nothing of just because that point of view serves your argument.

Would you like a winking smiley with that?

Average, from what I've seen on my business trips there.

Maybe they need to resurface the road from the airport to the centre of Oslo then.... Are you driving? Are you a passenger? Are you cycling?

Honestly, the roads are terrific there. You've perhaps been unlucky.

That wasn't aimed at me, and heading far off topic, but anyway, my experience of Norwegian roads is from living near Stavanger for the last 8 years. I've never cycled or driven in Oslo, trains and trams are good enough. But a lot of people here disagree about how wise the spending is. There is plenty of debate about school and hospital funding, just as in the UK, and car drivers rant about waste of money on express bus lanes and bike lanes. Meanwhile the new 14km tunnel opening next year is costing 5 billion kroner, and there was a perfectly good ferry network before - much better, when cycling. But the ferries will stop to force people to pay the 260kr tunnel toll. The next tunnel project starting now, 27km and expected to cost 16 billion kr, is supposed to reduce a 5 hour journey time by 40 minutes.
Around Trondheim a lot of the minor roads are still only gravel surfaced, and around Ålesund it's hard to get anywhere by bike because there's so many tunnels.

rjsterry

Bobbygloss wrote:

Around Trondheim a lot of the minor roads are still only gravel surfaced, and around Ålesund it's hard to get anywhere by bike because there's so many tunnels.

Yeah! Stoopid mountains and fjords!

pblakeney

I can't decide which is worse, the total ineptitude of this Government, or that no other party can lead a vote of no confidence.
What I do know, is that this is the worst Government that I have seen. I despair.

rick_chasey

The real question is has Brexit broken the gov't or did the gov't break Brexit?

surrey_commuter

PBlakeney wrote:

I can't decide which is worse, the total ineptitude of this Government, or that no other party can lead a vote of no confidence.
What I do know, is that this is the worst Government that I have seen. I despair.

Time dulls the memory but Major's was pretty bad.

pblakeney

Surrey Commuter wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I can't decide which is worse, the total ineptitude of this Government, or that no other party can lead a vote of no confidence.
What I do know, is that this is the worst Government that I have seen. I despair.

Time dulls the memory but Major's was pretty bad.

There were definitely problems then, but nothing close to the ineptitude today.

rolf_f

Bobbygloss wrote:

That wasn't aimed at me, and heading far off topic, but anyway, my experience of Norwegian roads is from living near Stavanger for the last 8 years. I've never cycled or driven in Oslo, trains and trams are good enough. But a lot of people here disagree about how wise the spending is. There is plenty of debate about school and hospital funding, just as in the UK, and car drivers rant about waste of money on express bus lanes and bike lanes. Meanwhile the new 14km tunnel opening next year is costing 5 billion kroner, and there was a perfectly good ferry network before - much better, when cycling. But the ferries will stop to force people to pay the 260kr tunnel toll. The next tunnel project starting now, 27km and expected to cost 16 billion kr, is supposed to reduce a 5 hour journey time by 40 minutes.
Around Trondheim a lot of the minor roads are still only gravel surfaced, and around Ålesund it's hard to get anywhere by bike because there's so many tunnels.

These projects are mostly ridiculous - eg someone who potentially loses a lovely 50s café in a fairly remote area because there is a plan to ever so slightly straighten a bend so that it just clips the edge of the café. Most depressing about that is the feeling of defeatism from the owners. Have to say I never spotted any unsurfaced roads around Trondheim and Alesund was no problem either - infact, I didn't notice the tunnels there! The stupidest tunnel issue we had was at Sunndalsora where a new 6km tunnel was constructed and the old route locked at the first tunnel. The options were to push the bike over a mountain, do a 70 mile detour retracing most of that days ride, hope that one of the two buses that day weren't several hours wait away and could carry bikes or ride through illegally. So we did the latter. Which caused the tunnel to be closed by the time we got out of it!

rjsterry

Rolf F wrote:

The stupidest tunnel issue we had was at Sunndalsora where a new 6km tunnel was constructed and the old route locked at the first tunnel. The options were to push the bike over a mountain, do a 70 mile detour retracing most of that days ride, hope that one of the two buses that day weren't several hours wait away and could carry bikes or ride through illegally. So we did the latter. Which caused the tunnel to be closed by the time we got out of it!

You weren't on a bear hunt by any chance?

rolf_f

rjsterry wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

The stupidest tunnel issue we had was at Sunndalsora where a new 6km tunnel was constructed and the old route locked at the first tunnel. The options were to push the bike over a mountain, do a 70 mile detour retracing most of that days ride, hope that one of the two buses that day weren't several hours wait away and could carry bikes or ride through illegally. So we did the latter. Which caused the tunnel to be closed by the time we got out of it!

You weren't on a bear hunt by any chance?

I don't think so. Should I have been? I don't really believe in bears.

rjsterry

Well that reference went straight over your head

We're going on a bear hunt. We're going to catch a big one. We're not scared.
Uh-oh! A mountain! A big Norwegian mountain.
Can't ride over it.
Can't ride round it.
Oh no, we have to ride through it!

Pedal, pedal, pedal.

Stevo_666

Surprise, surprise - Momentum under investigation for election spending:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42264630
Will be interesting to see how that turns out.

And interestingly, a Guardian journo ranks himself as a key Momentum supporter: is this still the rag of choice for the centre left?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42153139

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surprise, surprise - Momentum under investigation for election spending:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42264630
Will be interesting to see how that turns out.

And interestingly, a Guardian journo ranks himself as a key Momentum supporter: is this still the rag of choice for the centre left?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42153139

They also employ Simon Jenkins and Matthew D'Ancona (former editor of the Spectator and chair of Conservative think tank Bright Blue). It's not the Socialist Worker just yet.

The MoS employs Rachel Johnson; are they going to support the LibDems at the next election?

mamba80

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surprise, surprise - Momentum under investigation for election spending:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42264630
Will be interesting to see how that turns out.

And interestingly, a Guardian journo ranks himself as a key Momentum supporter: is this still the rag of choice for the centre left?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42153139

think the tories have had their own expenses scandal, with the biggest ever fine levied... btbh the country faces far bigger issues because of your party of choice!

shortfall

PBlakeney wrote:

I can't decide which is worse, the total ineptitude of this Government, or that no other party can lead a vote of no confidence.
What I do know, is that this is the worst Government that I have seen. I despair.

Either you're very young then or you have an extremely short memory. No that May's government isn't bad because they're a massive bag of sh1te, but the 70s saw some appallingly bad administrations from both Labour and the Tories.

pblakeney

Shortfall wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I can't decide which is worse, the total ineptitude of this Government, or that no other party can lead a vote of no confidence.
What I do know, is that this is the worst Government that I have seen. I despair.

Either you're very young then or you have an extremely short memory. No that May's government isn't bad because they're a massive bag of sh1te, but the 70s saw some appallingly bad administrations from both Labour and the Tories.

To be 18 and politically aware in the mid 70s would make me around 60. Hardly very young!
I am slightly younger than that but can remember power cuts etc. and vast differences of policies and opinions. Can't remember such levels of ineptitude. Even tories must admit this lot are useless.

Stevo_666

mamba80 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Surprise, surprise - Momentum under investigation for election spending:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42264630
Will be interesting to see how that turns out.

And interestingly, a Guardian journo ranks himself as a key Momentum supporter: is this still the rag of choice for the centre left?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42153139

think the tories have had their own expenses scandal, with the biggest ever fine levied... btbh the country faces far bigger issues because of your party of choice!

We will face far bigger issues if your party of choice ever gets in. Old Labour, old danger...

rick_chasey

Momentum are just as awful as any frothy mouthed Brexiter.

My question is, what is the deterrent to stop parties breaking the spending rules?

By the time they get investigated it’s months or years after the fact.

tailwindhome

mamba80

Inflation up again, headline is 3.1 % but within food is up 5%, tea/coffee 7%, electricity 11%... and all very much caused by the Tories and their disastrous brexit policy.

All very well saying these will work through as the affects of weaker £ but they still be year on year higher than they were and still wages for most people are staying at 0%, how folk on benefits are expected to manage, who knows are apparently even cares, personally dont know anyone who has had a wage rise.

Stevo_666

mamba80 wrote:

Inflation up again, headline is 3.1 % but within food is up 5%, tea/coffee 7%, electricity 11%... and all very much caused by the Tories and their disastrous brexit policy.

All very well saying these will work through as the affects of weaker £ but they still be year on year higher than they were and still wages for most people are staying at 0%, how folk on benefits are expected to manage, who knows are apparently even cares, personally dont know anyone who has had a wage rise.

You know me, don't you?

Jez mon

So for the people I've discussed pay with this year, everyone has had a pay rise, and most have had one above inflation...

Admittedly totally anecdotal, and I've only discussed pay with friends in the private sector.

Stevo_666

Jez mon wrote:

So for the people I've discussed pay with this year, everyone has had a pay rise, and most have had one above inflation...

Admittedly totally anecdotal, and I've only discussed pay with friends in the private sector.

Mamba, tell your friends to work harder...

surrey_commuter

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

So for the people I've discussed pay with this year, everyone has had a pay rise, and most have had one above inflation...

Admittedly totally anecdotal, and I've only discussed pay with friends in the private sector.

Mamba, tell your friends to work harder...

And remind them that they voted for this and not to worry as they can keep warm by clutching tightly to their blue passports.

john80

mamba80 wrote:

Inflation up again, headline is 3.1 % but within food is up 5%, tea/coffee 7%, electricity 11%... and all very much caused by the Tories and their disastrous brexit policy.

All very well saying these will work through as the affects of weaker £ but they still be year on year higher than they were and still wages for most people are staying at 0%, how folk on benefits are expected to manage, who knows are apparently even cares, personally dont know anyone who has had a wage rise.

The above would have happened with any party enacting Brexit in any form. Of course you can argue that the Tories were the ones to give us a referendum however it was the population that voted them in and then voted to leave. Labours policy for Brexit is pretty much similar to the Tories. The other issue with single item inflations is that I get a pot of money for going to work. I don't spend all of that pot of money on any of these single items. Therefore if I get a 2% wage increase which is below inflation then A, I don't spend my entire earnings per month and B, a lot of the things I buy have not gone up in price. Focussing on the price of tea or food is a pretty minor expenditure in my life but then I am not on the breadline.

rick_chasey

https://twitter.com/danielhewittitv/sta ... 3551222784

This is a rather sad story.

pblakeney

As are some of the responses.

mamba80

Rick Chasey wrote:

https://twitter.com/danielhewittitv/status/940548373551222784

This is a rather sad story.

apparently, all their parents have to do is work harder....

sad state of affairs tbh, rickets was a post war food rationing condition, my oldest cousin had it in the early 50's

Stevo_666

It wouldn't be New Year without a bit of Labour delusion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42524076

Happy New Year folks - I'm looking forward to some calm, rational political debate in 2018

ballysmate

The police seemed to even come out of retirement to have a go at Damian Green. Meanwhile we have Keith Vaz who it is alleged is guilty of offering to supply class A drugs to sex workers and gets a free pass. :?
Investigations into his behaviour have been suspended due to ill health. He does seem to become ill when he gets investigated, poor lamb.
Vaz appears to have bravely left his sick bed to speak in the Commons on 11 December and voted in the lobbies just before the Xmas recess. What a Trojan!
Not defending him but I wonder why Green thought the police had an agenda, having waited 9 years to get him?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... al-reasons