Join the Labour Party and save your country!

rjsterry

Tangled Metal wrote:

What is their Brexit policy?

Good question. I think they would say they are keeping all options open, but that survey tells them what their members and supporters want.

tangled_metal

So that's no policy then?

rolf_f

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

No, I think their Brexit Policy is to try not to say anything about Brexit in the hope that natural Labour voters will assume that the silence means Labour agrees with them whether they are Remainer or Leaver. So they are pitching for the idiots. Seems to work these days so who can blame them?

kingstongraham

Rolf F wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

No, I think their Brexit Policy is to try not to say anything about Brexit in the hope that natural Labour voters will assume that the silence means Labour agrees with them whether they are Remainer or Leaver. So they are pitching for the idiots. Seems to work these days so who can blame them?

I think their Brexit policy is that Brexit will have happened by the time they get power, so there's no point worrying about it until they need to decide whether they want in again.

rjsterry

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

The stats are only for party members, not all voters.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

The stats are only for party members, not all voters.

I thought Labour were very keen on following the wishes of rank and file members these days.

Does that include Stevo?

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

The stats are only for party members, not all voters.

I thought Labour were very keen on following the wishes of rank and file members these days.

Does that include Stevo?

I didn't renew when they asked for £25 to vote. The initial £3 was OK and great value for money as this thread demonstrates , but I don't fancy funding that shower for any more.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

and some bigger issues

Not sure if there is a correlation between this and the lack of intelligent people in the country, as many on here often claim

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

and some bigger issues

Not sure if there is a correlation between this and the lack of intelligent people in the country, as many on here often claim

Mate, you’re the only one that brings it up. In this instance, crow baring into something that has nothing to do with it.

mamba80

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

opp parties years from a GE dont formulate hard an fast policy, its madness, esp as Labour would never have put the UK in this situation in the first place.

surrey_commuter

mamba80 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

opp parties years from a GE dont formulate hard an fast policy, its madness, esp as Labour would never have put the UK in this situation in the first place.

Or out of political expediency they are saying nothing rather than what they believe is best for the country. I really think they should pursue their line about wanting a Brexit that is good for the economy and jobs. Still not saying much but nicely brackets the Tories as not caring about the economy or jobs.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

and some bigger issues

Not sure if there is a correlation between this and the lack of intelligent people in the country, as many on here often claim

Mate, you’re the only one that brings it up. In this instance, crow baring into something that has nothing to do with it.

Not my fault if you don't like the correlation...

I even added a smiley to give you a clue

rjsterry

mamba80 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

opp parties years from a GE dont formulate hard an fast policy, its madness, esp as Labour would never have put the UK in this situation in the first place.

We did just have a GE and Labour's policy on Brexit was no more defined then.

pblakeney

Rick Chasey wrote:

A few interesting charts...

On brexit, for example


...

A clue as to the Labour policy on Brexit should be found in there I'd have thought.
Still, what people say, and what they do are often at odds.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

and some bigger issues

Not sure if there is a correlation between this and the lack of intelligent people in the country, as many on here often claim

Mate, you’re the only one that brings it up. In this instance, crow baring into something that has nothing to do with it.

Not my fault if you don't like the correlation...

I even added a smiley to give you a clue

When YouGov looked at this there was some data that conflicted with your supposed correlation

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

When YouGov looked at this there was some data that conflicted with your supposed correlation

IQ clearly isn't the only measure, if that's what you were referring to

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

opp parties years from a GE dont formulate hard an fast policy, its madness, esp as Labour would never have put the UK in this situation in the first place.

We did just have a GE and Labour's policy on Brexit was no more defined then.

People might infer from your statement that Labour actually have a policy on Brexit...

ballysmate

mamba80 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

So that's no policy then?

I've said as much a few times on this thread. Mamba normally defends it as a sensible approach and at least no worse than the current government. I think that is a very low bar. I suspect the labour leadership don't want to lose their leave-voting support, but that survey suggests they are insignificant and they have more to gain from a Remain or quasi-Remain stance.

opp parties years from a GE dont formulate hard an fast policy, its madness, esp as Labour would never have put the UK in this situation in the first place.

It's all a dastardly Tory plot isn't it? Same as everything else. Do you check for Tories under the bed before you go to sleep?
It was in the manifesto which the public voted for. More than that , there was a debate in the Commons and a vote passed in favour of a referendum. The result? 544 FOR, 53 Against. (Mostly SNP)

Hilary Benn, the shadow foreign secretary, speaking on behalf of Labour in support of the bill had this to say:

“My view is that the question is perfectly clear and very simple. I do not think that anyone who goes into the polling station on the day, whenever it is, will not understand the consequences of voting either way.”

He obviously hadn't encountered the supposedly educated BR forumites had he?

Moreover, do you remember the Libdems walking out of the Commons back in 2008 because they were denied a referendum on the UK's role in Europe?

Nick Clegg.

"It's time for the Westminster establishment to stop being so cowardly over Europe and have an open debate with the country. I will be proud to lead the Liberal Democrats in arguing the case for our membership of the EU."

Stevo_666

I'm trying to work out what mixture of spineless and clueless accounts for Labour's current 'policy' on Brexit.

tangled_metal

So what the situation is, labour has/had a policy which was for Brexit but they're not talking about it loudly enough for their voters to hear in case they don't like it and don't vote for them.

All things to all supporters no matter whether they're diametrically opposed. It's a reasonable idea / policy to have if you're desperate. Try and grab from both sides if the debate. No backbone though.

ballysmate

Labour MPs may well on balance be pro EU but are saddled with a leader that has repeatedly expressed his anti EU views and has voted to reject Maastrict and Lisbon, causing some internal turmoil.

rjsterry

Ballysmate wrote:

Labour MPs may well on balance be pro EU but are saddled with a leader that has repeatedly expressed his anti EU views and has voted to reject Maastrict and Lisbon, causing some internal turmoil.

And a membership seemingly in denial.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

and some bigger issues

Not sure if there is a correlation between this and the lack of intelligent people in the country, as many on here often claim

Mate, you’re the only one that brings it up. In this instance, crow baring into something that has nothing to do with it.

Not my fault if you don't like the correlation...

I even added a smiley to give you a clue

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

I'm trying to work out what mixture of spineless and clueless accounts for Labour's current 'policy' on Brexit.

About the same as the equally w@nk Tory policy, I suspect.

bompington

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I'm trying to work out what mixture of spineless and clueless accounts for Labour's current 'policy' on Brexit.

About the same as the equally w@nk Tory policy, I suspect.

Well not really. Surely Labour's policy is not to have a policy, because it enables them to sit back and take advantage of the mess the Tories are getting themselves into?

rolf_f

bompington wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I'm trying to work out what mixture of spineless and clueless accounts for Labour's current 'policy' on Brexit.

About the same as the equally w@nk Tory policy, I suspect.

Well not really. Surely Labour's policy is not to have a policy, because it enables them to sit back and take advantage of the mess the Tories are getting themselves into?

I see it the other way round - it's all part of Corbyn's desperate plan to avoid getting into power (ie that pretty much any Labour policy would get them into power now so the only way to stop that happening is not to have any policies).

mamba80

https://www.conservatives.com/planforbrexit

and Labours.....

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

Both seem to be a collection of platitudes to appease both wings of their respective parties BUT as Stev0 is keen to remind us all, its the Tories who are in power and from whom we require clear, strong and stable leadership from....

its a very fluid situation though isnt? very hard for either side to take a fixed position, events will no doubt dictate the final outcomes.

kingstongraham

mamba80 wrote:

https://www.conservatives.com/planforbrexit

and Labours.....

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

Both seem to be a collection of platitudes to appease both wings of their respective parties BUT as Stev0 is keen to remind us all, its the Tories who are in power and from whom we require clear, strong and stable leadership from....

its a very fluid situation though isnt? very hard for either side to take a fixed position, events will no doubt dictate the final outcomes.

Call me naïve, but aren't they supposed to want to shape those events?

mamba80

KingstonGraham wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

https://www.conservatives.com/planforbrexit

and Labours.....

https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/

Both seem to be a collection of platitudes to appease both wings of their respective parties BUT as Stev0 is keen to remind us all, its the Tories who are in power and from whom we require clear, strong and stable leadership from....

its a very fluid situation though isnt? very hard for either side to take a fixed position, events will no doubt dictate the final outcomes.

Call me naïve, but aren't they supposed to want to shape those events?

Who Lab or Con?

what i mean by events are unforeseen ones eg VW move to Doncaster or Honda relocate to Poland, perhaps opinion polls move dramatically for remain, maybe the EU fold and dont all stick together.... point is anything can happen, to expect Labour who just like the tories and the country split on brexit is a ridiculous expectation.